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Topic: New sins? ... weren't there enough?
Chazster's photo
Sun 03/16/08 11:31 AM

I haven't seen anything new there except for one; the birth control thing. I am not too sure about that one.


This isn’t really new at all. The Catholic church has always held that it’s a sin to have sex for the pure enjoyment of it. If you are using birth control methods, then there can be no doubt that you are having sex just for the bliss of it and you have no intention of procreating.

This is where this idea comes from. The problem is that it’s an idea that backfires in reality. Pronouncing birth control as a sin won’t cause people to refrain from having sex for the pure pleasure of it. All it will do is result in people having more babies than they can afford to raise properly. It also shirks any responsibly for planned parenthood or the responsible control of overpopulation.

Moreover, an Catholic couple that have sex during pregnancy would be sinning, because the previous pregnancy is already a natural from of birth control to prevent a second pregnancy from taking place until the first one comes to term.

So for a Catholic couple to truly not sin they would have to refrain from having sex for the nine months of each pregnancy. Otherwise they would be having sex for the pure pleasure of it.

In fact, I don’t know why the pope even mentions birth control. What he should really say is that it’s a sin to have sex for the pure pleasure of it without intent to procreate. Then it would be an automatic that if you’re using birth control you’re clearly committing a sin.

Personally I don’t believe that God would consider the making of love to be a sin, even if it is done for the pure ecstasy of it. As long as it’s done between a genuinely loving couple, or if one cares to believe, only within the convenient of Holy Matrimony.

The idea that God would consider such a loving act shared between loving people to be a sin is utter nonsense to me. And the idea that God wouldn’t want parents to be responsible and only have offspring that they can afford to raise properly can certainly not be a bad thing.

From my point of view this whole thing is nothing more than giving credence to ancient superstitions of ancient civilizations that didn’t even have the wisdom and knowledge of good birth control methods. Also, over population wasn’t a consideration back then. I think this kind of thinking might have also been a ploy by the church to encourage their followers to procreate more thus creating a larger congregation of followers.

Times have changed. Today we have decent methods of birth control and we do have an over population problem. Having more kids than a family can afford is not a good idea.

Like I say, the Catholics who actually refrain from having sex altogether other than when they genuinely intend on having a child will impress me. But the ones who just take this to mean that they can’t use birth control methods and they go right ahead have continuous sex without being responsible for how many babies they make are only fooling themselves.

That kind of behavior should be a sin in and of itself!


Thats not true, in the catholic church you can have sex for pleasure if you are married.

They just have to use natural means.. such as natural family planning ex having sex when the woman is not fertile.

scttrbrain's photo
Sun 03/16/08 11:41 AM

I haven't seen anything new there except for one; the birth control thing. I am not too sure about that one.


This isn’t really new at all. The Catholic church has always held that it’s a sin to have sex for the pure enjoyment of it. If you are using birth control methods, then there can be no doubt that you are having sex just for the bliss of it and you have no intention of procreating.

This is where this idea comes from. The problem is that it’s an idea that backfires in reality. Pronouncing birth control as a sin won’t cause people to refrain from having sex for the pure pleasure of it. All it will do is result in people having more babies than they can afford to raise properly. It also shirks any responsibly for planned parenthood or the responsible control of overpopulation.

Moreover, an Catholic couple that have sex during pregnancy would be sinning, because the previous pregnancy is already a natural from of birth control to prevent a second pregnancy from taking place until the first one comes to term.

So for a Catholic couple to truly not sin they would have to refrain from having sex for the nine months of each pregnancy. Otherwise they would be having sex for the pure pleasure of it.

In fact, I don’t know why the pope even mentions birth control. What he should really say is that it’s a sin to have sex for the pure pleasure of it without intent to procreate. Then it would be an automatic that if you’re using birth control you’re clearly committing a sin.

Personally I don’t believe that God would consider the making of love to be a sin, even if it is done for the pure ecstasy of it. As long as it’s done between a genuinely loving couple, or if one cares to believe, only within the convenient of Holy Matrimony.

The idea that God would consider such a loving act shared between loving people to be a sin is utter nonsense to me. And the idea that God wouldn’t want parents to be responsible and only have offspring that they can afford to raise properly can certainly not be a bad thing.

From my point of view this whole thing is nothing more than giving credence to ancient superstitions of ancient civilizations that didn’t even have the wisdom and knowledge of good birth control methods. Also, over population wasn’t a consideration back then. I think this kind of thinking might have also been a ploy by the church to encourage their followers to procreate more thus creating a larger congregation of followers.

Times have changed. Today we have decent methods of birth control and we do have an over population problem. Having more kids than a family can afford is not a good idea.

Like I say, the Catholics who actually refrain from having sex altogether other than when they genuinely intend on having a child will impress me. But the ones who just take this to mean that they can’t use birth control methods and they go right ahead have continuous sex without being responsible for how many babies they make are only fooling themselves.

That kind of behavior should be a sin in and of itself!



What?? Birth control has been around since Christ was a baby. If one believes in the word of the bible; then one knows it is sinful to have sex during mensus. Most women know when that is about to happen. Soooooo, refrain....don't get preggy. It worked for me for ten years. It was all about not having sex for a few days. No big deal. No new baby.

I am not of the Catholic persuasion...many family members are. A few husbands, but I learned this all by me self.bigsmile

No egg killed, or sperm, just plain ole common sense.

Kat

creativesoul's photo
Sun 03/16/08 12:20 PM
Hiya Kat!!!

laugh


scttrbrain's photo
Mon 03/17/08 09:57 AM
Hi ya CS! Sure is a pretty face you have............................................................................................................................
behind you.laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
Couldn't help myself.:wink:

Hope all is well with you Creative.

Kat

ArtGurl's photo
Mon 03/17/08 12:13 PM
(((Kat))) Missed ya girlie :heart:

s1owhand's photo
Mon 03/17/08 05:07 PM
i think that proselytizing should be a sin which
is prideful and a sin against humility also goes
against fundamental human right of mutual respect
and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

there is a petition...

http://www.petitiononline.com/unchr900/petition.html

creativesoul's photo
Mon 03/17/08 05:17 PM
Edited by creativesoul on Mon 03/17/08 05:17 PM
laugh @ Kat... At's perty good... :tongue:

Arsty... :heart:

What up s1ow?

laugh

Good luck with that one... happy

ArtGurl's photo
Mon 03/17/08 05:19 PM

i think that proselytizing should be a sin which
is prideful and a sin against humility also goes
against fundamental human right of mutual respect
and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

there is a petition...

http://www.petitiononline.com/unchr900/petition.html


s1ow - I agree ... if only ...:heart:


Creative :heart: smooched

Abracadabra's photo
Mon 03/17/08 05:36 PM
~ The Proselytizing Prohibition Petition ~

I’ve signed on the line to proclaim it’s divine
to make proselytizing prohibited
My signature stands against irate demands
were proselytizing’s exhibited

laugh

kubuck's photo
Wed 03/19/08 06:28 AM

The Pope announced 7 new sins which include ...


1. "Bioethical" violations such as birth control
2. "Morally dubious'' experiments such as stem cell research
3. Drug abuse
4. Polluting the environment
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty



The Holy Father did not create these sin's, he just identified problems and clarified for the faithful that they are sins. Let me give you an example that my help here.

In Matthew 5:28 Christ says "but I say to you that everyone that looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." That makes it pretty clear that looking pornography is a sin. Now, we are also charged biblically speaking, to work as a community to preserve each other's souls (love your brother as yourself), so should you be one that tempts others with pornography, it to is a sin. Pretty simple and logically pure. However, while prostitution was an issue in biblical times, internet porn was not.

These things that His Holiness has labeled as sin's are more recent problems created and magnified by negative forces in society. Since it is the church's role to serve as the moral compass and to lead people to him(this was a charge given to us by Christ), it is his duty to interpret and teach. He's just making sure that you know that when you throw that empty McD's cup out the window as you drive down the interstate, it is a sinful act. Does that mean you are going to Hell for littering, no, of course not. That is not a theologically sound teaching.

As for the earlier posts about sex being only for procreation, that is a whole other topic, but that is NOT what the church teaches. That is Jansonist and has been defined as a heresy on more than one count by the Church. It is a common misunderstanding of why the church teaches that the use of ARTIFICIAL contraception is immoral (for one, things like IUD, the pill, etc are abortive and killing a baby is certainly a sin), use of things like the barrier method are sins more because you are thumbing your nose at God. Like I said, it's a very drawn out conversation, but believe me, it is theologically sound and I'll be more than happy to discuss it with anyone that wants to. Feel free to email me directly on the site if you would like to know more.

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