I've lost count of how many threads had addressed the identity of Jesus? God or Man, Son or God, and so on.

Have we, yet, considered the question: Is Jesus the son of Man?

I'm not looking for an argument, only for discussion so here is my opening.

According to Christian beliefs, there is no doubt that Jesus was a man/human. My understanding is that, the suffering and sacrifice(s) of Jesus are clearly held in the highest regard, BECAUSE, what was endured was inflicted on his 'human' nature.

Obviously, as God, there would have been no real physical suffering, and even the mental anguish that Jesus displayed, in temptations with evil, and his own questions indicate that this HAD to be from a human perspective.

All this being the case, then Jesus was biologically, physiologically, and psychologically, human.

THE QUESTION? If God can come from man, have creation through man, then whatever the laws that govern the universe (created by God)they MUST be present and "universal" to all humans. That being the case, Jesus could not be God and human, UNLESS, humans are more that just the "likeness" of God, but are likewise God in human form.

That is my logic. It is not meant as an opinion, or as disrespectful. It is meant as a point for discussion.

ABRA don't get carried away. It's an EXCHANGE not a CHALLENGE.

A great mystery that will remain unsolved. You could be right!

To many there is no physical proof that he even existed. To Ancient Egyptian belief the people who worship this one God is the wrong God called Enka or better known as Jehovah. And the God who tried to spare the destruction of humans is the half brother of Enka called Enlil. So according to their belief the Jews worship the wrong God and the reason why Egyptians at the time tried to exterminate the Jews. If they would have been successful Christianity may have never existed today.

There are so many religions who have different stories about how religion started and what is right and wrong. A delicate subject. I can tell you this that there was once a Pharoah that made his people only worship one God. When his reign ended future Pharoahs brought back the many Gods to worship again. According to history this was the first civilization to really believe that there is only one God today. Most religions belief in one God, yet Hindus still believe in many. Who is right and who is wrong. A mystery that will remain unsolved.

Perhaps the scholars at the time who wrote the bible were so knowledgeable that they took parts of Egyptian beliefs that are thousands of years older and intergrated them to their time to challenge the Roman Empire.

Of course this information I provide you is absurd for a Christian, Christian dominator, or a Catholic. Perhaps they are right, maybe it is absurd.

All in all I remain agnostic (uncertain) and can accept anyones (theo)ries in the belief of (theo)logy.

You write a valid point and it is a good article. thank you!

That’s been my understanding all along ever since I first became a Christian. Jesus himself said as much.

“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High”



Is that like in "money exchangers"?

Ah shucks, Di, life’s no fun when there’s no challenge.

How have you been Red


My understanding of all this is yes we can have the exactly the same will to perform miracles or anything else yahshua did. He even said at the end of this age you will do greater things that I. He also said if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can say to this mountain move and it will move. We can see that the earth is under our athourity with the killing of Abel. It said the earth mourned Abels blood.

Mary being a virgin was concieved by the holy spirit. This is wher we get Yahshua being refered to as The Son of Man. Now Yahshua said he had to go away or this spirit could not come to us. When The Feast of Weeks or some call it Pentecost came the Holy Spirit came as cloven Tongues of fire. The tongue representing the word of the spirit and the fire representing the Power of Yahweh.. Yahweh is a consuming fire. Hence Peter right after this told the criple boldly to get up and walk and he did.. It is not that we can not do these things. It is we lack the faith too. The same spirit that endwelled Yahshua. Is the same that is in the believer. But sorry to say we squelch the spirit as we are told not to.. hope this helps Red....Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Awe, Abra, this was no challenge for you, I knew this was pointing into your light. I was just wondering how other Christians would related to my words.

HI MILES,
I've been suffering an affliction of distemper and so I have been keeping my focus on school, where expectations are self inflicted and self-worth is in a grade and not in anothers judgment of me.

I found myself here tonight and in an AHA! moment of insight, I felt I had something useful to impart. In my mind it was useful and I had one of those few and far between instances where self-worth was self proclaimed.

I was still feeling a bit guilty for the self-indulgence (on another thread) and offered this one up in peace.

I really appreciated reading your view. I liked it because you found some measure of connection between your beleifs and my thoughts, somewhere between the differences.

How pleasing it is to know, how small we can make the greatest differences, when we look for what connections exist for there to be differences.

May the Blessings of Shalom always be abundantly yours for the sharing.

Hi Smiless,

Interesting point. I often wonder what it would mean for there to be more than one God, or only one God. What constitutes individuality for a God?

I often have dreams (visions?) of being in the spirit world. In my dreams all spirits have an egalitarian nature. There are no judgments in the spiritual world. In the dream it is vividly clearly to me why this is so. There is simply nothing to judge. There is no ‘individuality’. At least not as we perceive it in the human form.

It is difficult to describe in words. In my dreams there are many spirits, infinitely many, and by that I simply mean that there are no boundaries, it’s not that I can sense all spirits simultaneously.

In my dream the spirits can take on a ‘physical’ form in a sense. They are like orbs of fuzzy light that are malleable and can transform into whatever shape they care to take on. In the dream I got the sense that they took the shapes that I preferred to see. They allowed my thought so shape them. Some actually took the forms of humans, fleetingly in a ghostlike manner.

So there was a very definite sense of ‘individually’ in that there seemed to be many ‘individual’ spirits, yet at the very same time they all shared a single mind. All the spirits knew my every thought and I knew theirs like as if we all shared a single mind. No spirit would pass judgment on any other spirit for the thoughts they have because all thoughts belong to everyone. No one spirit owns the thoughts.

It was a totally ego-less experience that is hard to put into human terms.

However, in the dream I was still able to communicate with ‘individual’ spirits with ‘private’ conversations. Not because the other spirits could not know our thoughts, but because there are no judgments. The other spirits aren’t interested in ‘listening’ in to thoughts they know aren’t intended for them. Spirits simply aren’t interested ‘gossip’. It’s just not something that spirits care to do. Whatever is on your mind is ok with them. It’s not their business because they simply don’t make it there business. It’s just not a concept in the spirit world. Spirits aren’t out to judge. They just don’t care about things like that. This is a concept that many humans can’t seem to grasp. Although, having said that there are humans are who feel the same way. They simply aren’t interested in judging others.

In any case, I got a real sense that this collective ‘individualized non-individual spirits’ are all that exists.

Now, there was a sense of a ‘life-giving-force’ in the dream. A ‘central’ point-source of light that was somehow the source of all that exists. I got a very real sense that all spirits revered this light as giving rise to their being. Yet, at the same time, I also got a profound sense that this ‘point-source’ of light was not sentient. At least not in the same way that we are. Not egotistically sentient. I got a sense that it was a differnet kind of life-form so profoundly differnet from us that we could not even hope to comprehend it.

Yet that information seemed to be totally acceptable in a way that I can’t describe. The point-source of light was omnipresent. Always in view, but never intrusive. No matter in what ‘direction/ you look the point-source of life was always there. Yet there is not doubt in your mind that it is always the same source. You know this like as if it as a natural part of your being. It is as much a part of you as your shadow. You cannot get closer to it or further away from it. It’s like the end of a rainbow. It’s just there always present., always comforting, always giving rise to the light of illusion. You feel that it is part of you, not alien at all. It’s as natural as the sun in sky.

Now in this dream, where is God? Is the point-source of life-giving illusion God? Or is the infinite collection of ‘individualized non-individual’ spirits God? In my dream it was my pathos that all of it what exists as a whole. The things we attempt to ‘individualize’ is nothing more than our need to ‘reason’.

Even as I was having this dream I was aware that it was a vision. I was not fully there. I was still in the human form with a human brain and because of this I was not freed from reason. But the other spirits in the vision were free from the bindings of reason. One spirit took the form of a little girl, and I took the form of a little boy, and she was invited me into a fairytale to where I followed her with joy.

She showed me how illusions are created and told me how we can freely chose whatever illusions we like. There are no judgments in the spiritual world. No rules, no dogma. It’s a never-ending fantasy that we experience as life.

I have had this vision are several different occasions. Each time it seemed like a very real experience. I’m not claiming that it was. I was in bed sleeping when I had these dreams. As far as I know they were nothing more than dreams. What’s the difference between a vision and a dream? In the biblical doctrine many visions came to men in the form of dreams. Why should I believe the visions of others when I experience vision of my own? They seemed real enough to me.

Well Jesus was a Man, a Healing man at that and as a healing man was known,as a Shaman.
The Suffering he went through was real pain.
He is remembered for his love of life and others, just as the God/Goddess intended him to be, but still that ? who is the Goddess/God?
We will know when we get there
Just a quick view of my thoughts not meant in a bad way at all.

Redy,

peace, dear

there is this aspect to Jesus as god/man.

The Son of God, the only begotten of the Father, diety of Christ.

The son of man, born of a woman, humanity of Christ.

The teaching is that he is fully God incarnate and fully human.

He lived and functioned as we all do. Fully and completely human.

The cross was a painful ordeal. No getting around that for any man. The suffering was real.

As the 'son of man' there are many scriptural references to this and many recorded as from Jesus himself. (See Luke17:22- for one)

Here are some to see and read, if you are interested.

Luke6:22, 7:34, 9:22,26., 17:22-18:31,22:69,
John 1:51, 6:27, 6:62, 12:23-34.,

Hebrews 2:1-10,(see verse 6) and then look at Psalms 8:1-9 in the old testament for the reference to this passage being expounded on in Hebrews chapter 2.

Dear Abra,

You have a valid point indeed and perhaps everything created in various religious books are nothing more then visual dreams by creative scholars. It will remain a mystery for everyone who has a open mind to other theological theories.

We must also think about how some believe that everything you smell, touch, feel, and hear is nothing more then a constant revolving energy linked together to everything and supposingly those who understand this method can actually manipulate it into positivity or negativity ensuring a successful life or not. I have a 20 minute preview on this belief on my profile called "The Secret". Perhaps it will interest you and you can highlight it and watch a different perspective.

Then there are scientists who believe in the big bang theory and how Buddhism somehow can relate to this belief easier then other religions or philosophical idealogies.

I always try to have a open mind on all ideas from religious fanatics to the deepest thoughts of a atheist. We just simple don't know as I say numerous times it remains a mystery rather we like it or not.

Dear Redy,

I thank you for your kind words and hope that you will find answers from within and not from what is told from outside. A moment of peace and harmony should always be cherished in this world of many characters.

I wish you peace and happiness.

If anyone wants to contribute to my recent replies then please email me. I am to tired to keep looking back to see if someone wrote something here. 2 am and my body and mind says - go to sleep! LOL


I wish everyone a peaceful night of sleep.

Good Night!!

BB & Mp
G.G.

I agree, I’m ultimately an agnostic and never pretend to be anything else. As far as I’m concerned we are all agnostics whether we admit it to ourselves or not, so we may as well come out now.

However, there’s a lot to be said for the pantheistic view, not to mention that it’s obviously correct.

If there’s a big judgmental chief at the head of it all, I don’t even want to know about it until judgment day. I always cross my bridges when I come to them and not before.

I love life, and that’s all I have to say about that.

I enjoy giving proselytizers hell too, but only because that’s what they are trying to sell.



Yes, I’m familiar with it.

I couldn’t find it on your profile though. Too much other clutter! My God! Did you give up your day job to become a profilest?

I found the following interesting, so here go, just for fun, not for any other reason, but it is honest,…



Sorry for the hijack Di, it’s late and I was in a dust bunny mood.

I am glad you enjoyed this. lol

It was intended for those who live a hectic life in the city. Many forget that life can be much more enjoyable and forget the simple neccessities we actually only need.

Of course it doesn't work for everyone. lol

Yes...The Secret. I have a long profile true, but it is entertaining almost 2000 people per day as it has jokes, quotes, and other interesting things to read each day.

I will highlight it and post it up for you to watch. Of course it is interesting to watch, but not everyone believes in it. I say each for their own. lol

cheers

THE SECRET - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1GKGWJbE8

Jesus never said anything, since he himself left nothing written ...this I always found odd. All that we have are the accounts and testimonies of his followers. Second-hand news.
Was there a man named Emmanuel born to an un-wed, teenage girl, who came from a family of some status?? Possibly.
Other than that, what you believe has nothing more to do than with faith.

You said it. Faith the belief of something not seen. But it can be felt....Blessings...Miles

Not only that, but if people want to claim that it’s a history book and not just mythology then it’s a perfectly valid question to ask who the recorders of that history were, and were they biased in their records.

I think the answer to that question is pretty obvious. As a history book it would be totally rejected as being nothing more than biased hearsay. And as mythology,… well,… need I say more?

IF YOU HAVE A RELIGION NAMED AFTER YOU AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORSHIP YOU FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS THEN YOU ARE A GOD. DUH

If it’s based on faith then the question becomes,… “Why would a person chose to have faith?”

The answer is quite simple. Because they want to!

So fine.

Then why do so many people get bent out of shape when other people don't want to have faith?

That’s the BIG question.