here is an example for you (my persoanl history for about two years).

I worked for a big name retailer, full time (minimum 40 hours) per week at 6.40 an hour. That comes out to approximately 820.00 take home per month.
Average rent for a 2 bdrm apt is 500 a month (four person family we needed two bedrooms), with no utilities added on. You have to pay the utilities as well. This leaves you with 320.00.
Figure approximately 150 dollars a month all year round for utilities (gas water and electric); pay more in the summer to offset the higher costs of gas in the winter. This leaves you with 170.00. Gasoline for the car to get back and forth to work averaged about 20 dollars a week back then so 80 dollars for the month (I did my grocery shopping after punching out in order to save on gasoline) this leaves you with 90 dollars.

now, we have ninety dollars left over. We have not paid for auto insurance; we have not paid for health insurance, we have not paid for a basic phone line in the house.

I am not mentioning food cause we received almost five hundred dollars a month in food stamps.
Now, do you know how much health insurance, just for myself was from work? JUST for myself. not for my wife or my kids. around 200 dollars per month (afleck insurance).

Now for sake of argument, say my wife worked also to help bring in more money. Day care costs average between five and six dollars an hour for two children. So if my wife was working minimum wage (5.15 an hour) what help is she going to be on the finances? And don't tell me to juggle work schedules so one worked first shift the other worked third shift (or second). you don't get the choice in the matter these days. You either work what you are scheduled (which is not a garunteed shift) or you don't work.

My point is, health insurance is NOT affordable to the average layman.

How do you come up with this average? I am poverty level and I sure as hell don't have all of that. I DO make internet a priority as well as phone so I can keep looking all over the country in order to find better work. I pay about 50 dollars a month for house phone and cable internet. I have free long distance, and I am able to hold conference calls (hence interviews) over my computer. Needless to say, a very needed resource.

But if you're making minimum wage for your whole life, the problem isn't with the system....

So, what you are saying is because of your decisions in life and inability to earn enough to sustain your lifestyle I should BE FORCED by the government to pay HIGHER TAXES so the federal government can institute a GOVERNMENT-RUN healthcare system with my tax dollars?

Yeah, screw that.

Thu 02/21/08 07:36 PM
"Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning.

By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.

Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher." - http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

No, now we are talking about the problems with cost of education and so on. Which is caused partly at least due to the system being self centered and greedy.

to begin with, I live off of, and raise two wonderful children on an average of 600 dollars a month net. that means I pay my lot rent (yes I choose to live in a trailer as lot rent is half the cost of apartment rent), and utilities every month. and provide phone service and whatever else I can squeeze in for my kids. Right now I have the internet cause I used my taxes to pay for it ahead of time in order to be able to look for a better paying job elsewhere.

Let me ask you this. In all honosty, how easy or capable do you think you would be of stepping into my shoes financially if your business went under? You are used to making so much money that you are donating all this and all that, you are paying for you private health insurance, etc. Find yourself living off of 600 dollars a month, receiving full food stamp benefits and state health insurance, and then tell me how easy it is.
While you are doing this, try going back to college (have to pay for child care while you are there as well as child care while you are working whatever schedule you are given). Pay for the transportation costs etc.
I am not saying you would not be able to do it. I KNOW you could do it, as I am doing it now and have been for several years. What I am saying is, it is not as easy to just "give something up" and "go without" as you think it may be. For us it IS far easier than it would be for you cause you don't have to, and a lot of people in your position have never had to go without (not saying you did or did not have to). Some people are at fault, yes. but not the majority. So, to stand there and tell us that we are the ones at fault?

Shame on you. Shame Shame Shame on you.

So in your eyes, equal opprotunity is a bad thing? Because I choose not to have kids that I couldn't afford, realized that minimum wage was just a starting point in your career, that now you want my tax money to pay for your bad choices? Shame on me? No, shame on you.

I never said that minimum wage was not a starting point for me. I never said anyting about choosing not t o have kids. I specifically DID state that I can live off of, and do so, 600 dollars a month average. It is not easy but I do so. What I also said, is before YOU come over with your high beliefs of everyone should do for themselves, you need to stop and ask yourself "how would I survive if tomorrow I didn't have a job?" Like so many gm and delphi workers are experiencing. THEY were used to bringing home mid income salaries and all of a sudden found themselves with no work. Most of them at least had some sort of a severance pay that they could live off of until they found more work, but most of them are unskilled in any other type of work and are going to have to accept low income. they are going to have a very hard time adjusting to life with little to no money available for anything except the absolute neccesities.

I am not bemoaning my station in life, although yes I WOULD prefer to have more money (lol who wouldn't). But to have someone come out and say, well "you made those choices" or "you need to do better for yourself" etc. when they most likely are not CAPABLE of making their life better on their own, that is just shear arrogance.

What happened to "the village stepping forward and assisting those in need"?

Well, all I can say to you is, if you can't make your life better in the US, you can't make it better anywhere else.

did i miss something here

does not a person that has a job

any job pay taxes

are not those taxes this person paid

also used to help those that need it

i did not realize only certain people paid taxes

and who are you complaining about anyway

those on social security

those benefits are paid for while you are working

so if those of you whining about whatever

it is yer whining about get over it

every gainfully employed person pays taxes

if they (or you)become in dire straights

and need help

that is why the tax was paid to begin with

do some take advantage yes

can you show me anything that does not have

some corruption

Right. NAFTA has been a disaster for this country. And Hillary wants another chance for the Clintons to screw the country again. What hubris. That's why I won't vote for the Hildebeest and will probably vote for Obama.

Im not allowed to have an opinion

exactly true adju...

If only that were the case!!!! Like I just said three times before, ask me to privately donate money here and there to a private organization helping poor families get by or help poor families get health insurance and I am ALL FOR IT!

However, the government telling me I MUST pay HIGHER TAXES for a government-run welfare and healthcare system and I say no way.

Proclaming the federal government as the means to achieve this 'village' is directly from Socialism 101. Road to Serfdom.

I may have missed your response ealrier, and if so let me apologize. However I have nt sen you answer my queston concerning what you would do if you found yourself with no income and having to look at the idea of accepting a minimum wage job in order to just survive, like so many GM and DELPHI workers are having to do now. I am sure you are saving money in case of an emergency, yuo sound too intelligent not to be. HOWEVER, savings will only last so long, and in this day and age, it is getting harder and harder to pick back up with even half of what you were earning prior to losing your income.
So, what would you do if yuo found yourself in my shoes (as an example, caue I am living it and succeeding) and had to live off of roughly 600 dollars a month take home?

Since this thread is entitled "Screw Obama," I am going to put down a few facts about him.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright has been Barack Obama’s minister, friend, and sounding board for more than two decades. The Rev. Wright is known for his rhetoric claiming America deserved 9/11 and that it is payback for America's violent policies. Four years later, Wright suggested that the 9/11 and other terrorist attacks were retribution for America’s racism. The Rev. Wright also declared that America keeps ignoring black concerns.

Rev. Wright is a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in December, honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement. Farrakhan repeatedly makes hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.

To this day, Obama has not distanced himself from Rev. Wright’s comments. In a statement supposedly issued to address the matter, Obama ignored the point that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Farrakhan and that Wright’s church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader.

What do we know about Obama? Stories abound that he was raised in a terrorist-Muslim cult and that he renounced his Muslim faith to become a Christian so he would do well in politics.

During Obama's Senate career.... where has he been? Well, we know he has not been doing the work of the Senate since he has been too busy campaigning to become president. However, considering his record in the Senate, that is probably a good thing.

Obama skipped 17 percent of the votes in the Senate and sponsored only one bill that became law. That bill was to give help to The Republic of Congo. All that time in the Senate and only one bill and it didn't help Americans?

Obama wants to pull out of Iraq immediately. If we were to leave Iraq quickly, as Obama vows, it would become a launch pad for al-Qaida attacks on the U.S.

Obama avoided voting on extending the "Protect America Act," thus putting America at risk when immediate interception of terrorist communications is required. Last August, Obama voted against a measure that would have allowed the U.S. to continue to monitor overseas conversations of terrorists like Osama bin Laden without first obtaining a warrant. If Obama's radical vote had prevailed, bin Laden would have been given the same rights as Americans.

I could go on and on, but I realize that people do not want to read posts that turn into epics.

here ya go ruining it with facts sssshhhhzzzzzzzzz

but i thought it was about the wife

Oh my gosh! What can I say about Mrs. Obama? She is a racist what with that statement that she has never been proud of American in her adult life until her husband ran for president. A remark like that shows disdain for America and is meant to foster racism.

ya wanna know the ironic part

if you hold mrs obama's remarks against

her husband

that almost almost mind you

gives credence to hillary being the better candidate

because of bill

and we all know that aint so

cause bill will see vengeance if hillary is elected

she is just bidin (forgive the pun) here time

till she can whip him whip him good

calls that is the way that devo rolls