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Topic: screw obama
leahmarie Joined Fri 12/28/07 Posts: 1482	Thu 03/13/08 10:27 AM Edited by leahmarie on Thu 03/13/08 10:43 AM
[quote spoken like a true patriot Jura... Carl Schurz: The peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country -- when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." G. K. Chesterton: "My country, right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother, drunk or sober." Seems that one must also be prepared to correct the problems when they are there and not blindly defend. To blindly defend is to accept whatever the leaders of a nation may decide, realizing too late that Patriotism means no freedoms. karmafury...... Why are you separating the above quotes? “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right” was said in its entirety by Schurz in a speech delivered at the Anti-Imperialistic Conference in Chicago toward the turn of the Century, around 1898 or was it 1899. Initially, he gave a speech in the Senate in the 1870's wherein he stated, "My country right or wrong." Perhaps, that is why you are confused. Additionally, I disagree with your statement "My country, right or wrong" is that of someone "desperate." Since you are quoting that, then you must believe in it. Did it ever occur to you that there are a lot of Americans who have loyalty to our country and stand behind her no matter what while they try to right whatever wrong our country is doing. It is too bad you are not one of them. So, if your mother was a drunk, you'd run out on her and disown her? Wow!

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Thu 03/13/08 11:04 AM
[quote spoken like a true patriot Jura... Carl Schurz: The peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country -- when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." G. K. Chesterton: "My country, right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother, drunk or sober." Seems that one must also be prepared to correct the problems when they are there and not blindly defend. To blindly defend is to accept whatever the leaders of a nation may decide, realizing too late that Patriotism means no freedoms. karmafury...... Why are you separating the above quotes? “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right” was said in its entirety by Schurz in a speech delivered at the Anti-Imperialistic Conference in Chicago toward the turn of the Century, around 1898 or was it 1899. Initially, he gave a speech in the Senate in the 1870's wherein he stated, "My country right or wrong." Perhaps, that is why you are confused. Additionally, I disagree with your statement "My country, right or wrong" is that of someone "desperate." Since you are quoting that, then you must believe in it. Did it ever occur to you that there are a lot of Americans who have loyalty to our country and stand behind her no matter what while they try to right whatever wrong our country is doing. It is too bad you are not one of them. So, if your mother was a drunk, you'd run out on her and disown her? Wow! 1 .. I copied said quote as it was on the site. I did not separate it. 2 .. I believe what Mr. Chesterton is trying to convey is that "My country, right or wrong" is the last line of a person with no other recourse. So indeed if your mother was a drunk would you not help her get straight again? Then why not so with your nation. 3 .. As for Americans trying to what's right for their nation and correct what ails her, yes I am aware of it and cheer them on. Am I one .... being Canadian, N0. But also being Canadian who schooled and traveled with Americans I did see what was a common attitude. Those I knew as friends were quite happy to have me around when harassed, Canadians are more respected abroad. 4 .. Half of my secondary education is in American run institutions. I noted that the US view of world history, geography and economics was pushed even when the name of the course was World History, World Geography and International Economics. So my point of view of America with it's history, attitudes etc doesn't come from news programs or tv. It comes from schooling with Americans, being in their homes and at their Embassy.

leahmarie Joined Fri 12/28/07 Posts: 1482	Thu 03/13/08 11:19 AM
karmafury..... I didn't realize you were Canadian. So, I can understand why your thoughts differ since you are not American. However, the site that separated the quotes that you were on is wrong. The Political Science professor I had when I was in school made a big deal about that quote, which is why I remember it. We have different views on this and I did express mine, so there is no need to repeat them.

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Thu 03/13/08 11:28 AM
We have different views on this and I did express mine, so there is no need to repeat them. Did I miss something then? Where I believe it to mean that as you would help your mother so you should help your nation you believe otherwise? So, I can understand why your thoughts differ since you are not American. I probably tend to think a lot more like an American than you think. I repeat....Half of my secondary education was in American schools. I knew the American Constitution and the American system of government before I had learned my history and political system.

symbelmyne Joined Mon 01/14/08 Posts: 5356	Thu 03/13/08 06:51 PM
oh yes the US is the worst place in the whole world... I wouldnt be taking any opinion polls in the Middle East right now.... maybe you should....and maybe you'd meet some of those terrorists you don't think exist....I know you'll have a lot in common with the terrorists but be careful not to lose your head over them... your comments are thinly veiled attempts to antagonize and get a rise out of me. I dont know why you personalize everything I say,and then attack me... maybe your hot for me..? Hey, leave him alone. I'm the one he's hot for! well Im hot for you leah....

symbelmyne Joined Mon 01/14/08 Posts: 5356	Thu 03/13/08 06:53 PM
And clean up your own garbage pit before you comment on your neighbors yard. well, at least I can walk into my neighbor's yard and not have to worry about getting my head blown off....or pretend to be "Canadian" to feel safer outside my own borders......

leahmarie Joined Fri 12/28/07 Posts: 1482	Thu 03/13/08 09:48 PM
oh yes the US is the worst place in the whole world... I wouldnt be taking any opinion polls in the Middle East right now.... maybe you should....and maybe you'd meet some of those terrorists you don't think exist....I know you'll have a lot in common with the terrorists but be careful not to lose your head over them... your comments are thinly veiled attempts to antagonize and get a rise out of me. I dont know why you personalize everything I say,and then attack me... maybe your hot for me..? Hey, leave him alone. I'm the one he's hot for! well Im hot for you leah.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll be darned; I'm hot for you too! How about that? (Bet you didn't expect that one?! )

mnhiker Joined Wed 02/14/07 Posts: 3771	Thu 03/13/08 10:56 PM
oh yes the US is the worst place in the whole world... I wouldnt be taking any opinion polls in the Middle East right now.... maybe you should....and maybe you'd meet some of those terrorists you don't think exist....I know you'll have a lot in common with the terrorists but be careful not to lose your head over them... your comments are thinly veiled attempts to antagonize and get a rise out of me. I dont know why you personalize everything I say,and then attack me... maybe your hot for me..? Hey, leave him alone. I'm the one he's hot for! well Im hot for you leah.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll be darned; I'm hot for you too! How about that? (Bet you didn't expect that one?! ) You two should get together. Just be sure to film it when you do and post it on Youtube so the rest of us can enjoy it.

leahmarie Joined Fri 12/28/07 Posts: 1482	Fri 03/14/08 12:27 AM
oh yes the US is the worst place in the whole world... I wouldnt be taking any opinion polls in the Middle East right now.... maybe you should....and maybe you'd meet some of those terrorists you don't think exist....I know you'll have a lot in common with the terrorists but be careful not to lose your head over them... your comments are thinly veiled attempts to antagonize and get a rise out of me. I dont know why you personalize everything I say,and then attack me... maybe your hot for me..? Hey, leave him alone. I'm the one he's hot for! well Im hot for you leah.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll be darned; I'm hot for you too! How about that? (Bet you didn't expect that one?! ) You two should get together. Just be sure to film it when you do and post it on Youtube so the rest of us can enjoy it. Sounds like you want to film it?

Jura_Neat_Please Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 4606	Fri 03/14/08 06:12 AM
karmafury~ The crime stats you refer to are not from an official US government site so to me they are suspect. Especially since they don't even have the correct population totals for the US and the percentages are off a considerable amount.Since the US population is 330 million people, 9.8% is over 32 million, not 7.7 as your reference sites. We wont even go into the percentage of crimes committed by non-citizens illegally in this country (note to mods, that is NOT a racist statement, please don't delete it). I made no claim that the US was perfect, in fact I said it was not. I said, clean up your own back yard before you talk about mine and that goes for you Canadians too. Frankly, since the liberal progressives have had their hands in things, lets say since Johnson, things have been going down hill here. There is little in the way of personal responsibility anymore and this saddens me a great deal. The baby boomer 60's generation have nearly run their course and this election cycle will be their last hurrah and my generation will take over. Hopefully we can undo the damage done by the liberals. Your torture reference has little merit as I do not consider water boarding torture. We even put our service personnel through it so they know what its like. We do the same with tear gas. It sucks, it is scary, but it is not torture and I assure you, if you were aware of a plot against the city you live in and the person you had custody of had the information to allow you to stop it, you would water board them too. I do not care how much you try and deny it so please bother. If your own family were threatened you would do ANYTHING to stop it. Jack Bower, were he real, would be a hero to me. This will be my last post in this thread that is not about the election as I do not care to hi-jack it further. Oh, and my Great Great Great Great Grandfather served in your government before and after your independance, in fact he was a leader in your revolution. So if you dont mind, can you help put it back the way he left it? Louis Joseph is spinning in his grave over what Canada has become.

symbelmyne Joined Mon 01/14/08 Posts: 5356	Fri 03/14/08 06:43 AM
Hey, leave him alone. I'm the one he's hot for! well Im hot for you leah.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll be darned; I'm hot for you too! How about that? (Bet you didn't expect that one?! ) Princes Leah...!!!! Well I do believe the Force is with us.....

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Fri 03/14/08 06:52 AM Edited by karmafury on Fri 03/14/08 06:54 AM
karmafury~ The crime stats you refer to are not from an official US government site so to me they are suspect. Especially since they don't even have the correct population totals for the US and the percentages are off a considerable amount.Since the US population is 330 million people, 9.8% is over 32 million, not 7.7 as your reference sites. We wont even go into the percentage of crimes committed by non-citizens illegally in this country (note to mods, that is NOT a racist statement, please don't delete it). I made no claim that the US was perfect, in fact I said it was not. I said, clean up your own back yard before you talk about mine and that goes for you Canadians too. Frankly, since the liberal progressives have had their hands in things, lets say since Johnson, things have been going down hill here. There is little in the way of personal responsibility anymore and this saddens me a great deal. The baby boomer 60's generation have nearly run their course and this election cycle will be their last hurrah and my generation will take over. Hopefully we can undo the damage done by the liberals. Your torture reference has little merit as I do not consider water boarding torture. We even put our service personnel through it so they know what its like. We do the same with tear gas. It sucks, it is scary, but it is not torture and I assure you, if you were aware of a plot against the city you live in and the person you had custody of had the information to allow you to stop it, you would water board them too. I do not care how much you try and deny it so please bother. If your own family were threatened you would do ANYTHING to stop it. Jack Bower, were he real, would be a hero to me. This will be my last post in this thread that is not about the election as I do not care to hi-jack it further. Oh, and my Great Great Great Great Grandfather served in your government before and after your independance, in fact he was a leader in your revolution. So if you dont mind, can you help put it back the way he left it? Louis Joseph is spinning in his grave over what Canada has become. Quite possible about crime stats. too tired to go look now. About cleaning our own yard go ask people of Toronto for example how they feel about illegal American handguns. Keep your toys we don't want them. You are quite right about Liberals Yes we also train our personnel to stand up to torture (is there a military that doesn't)... doesn't mean we condone it. CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE.

Jura_Neat_Please Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 4606	Fri 03/14/08 06:54 AM Edited by Jura_Neat_Please on Fri 03/14/08 07:07 AM
CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE. http://www.lac-bac.ca/confederation/023001-2089-e.html http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006069

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Fri 03/14/08 07:00 AM
CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE. http://www.lac-bac.ca/confederation/023001-2089-e.html Canada didn't revolt for independence. Les Patriotes was the original Quebec Separatistes and as such were arrested for treason. That was not a revolt for Canadian Independence. How's your French?? http://www.independance-quebec.com/patriotes/

Jura_Neat_Please Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 4606	Fri 03/14/08 07:10 AM
CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE. http://www.lac-bac.ca/confederation/023001-2089-e.html Canada didn't revolt for independence. Les Patriotes was the original Quebec Separatistes and as such were arrested for treason. That was not a revolt for Canadian Independence. How's your French?? http://www.independance-quebec.com/patriotes/ http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1SEC827046 plenty of armed conflict mentioned here. I'm just saying.

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Fri 03/14/08 07:18 AM
CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE. http://www.lac-bac.ca/confederation/023001-2089-e.html Canada didn't revolt for independence. Les Patriotes was the original Quebec Separatistes and as such were arrested for treason. That was not a revolt for Canadian Independence. How's your French?? http://www.independance-quebec.com/patriotes/ http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1SEC827046 plenty of armed conflict mentioned here. I'm just saying. Again plenty of armed conflict BUT NOT FOR CANADIA INDEPENDENCE. It was for the independence of that portion which is Quebec. The Patriotes are considered National Heroes by the Separatiste Movement. They sought the independence of Quebec NOT CANADA.

Jura_Neat_Please Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 4606	Fri 03/14/08 07:36 AM
CANADA DIDN'T HAVE A REVOLUTION FOR INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. REMEMBER AMERICAN LOYALISTS CAME HERE. http://www.lac-bac.ca/confederation/023001-2089-e.html Canada didn't revolt for independence. Les Patriotes was the original Quebec Separatistes and as such were arrested for treason. That was not a revolt for Canadian Independence. How's your French?? http://www.independance-quebec.com/patriotes/ http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1SEC827046 plenty of armed conflict mentioned here. I'm just saying. Again plenty of armed conflict BUT NOT FOR CANADIA INDEPENDENCE. It was for the independence of that portion which is Quebec. The Patriotes are considered National Heroes by the Separatiste Movement. They sought the independence of Quebec NOT CANADA. Indeed, however, the end result of that conflict and the one in Upper Canada resulted in them both being united into a new independent country as the last link points out if you read on through the next two pages. We could go on about this if you like, but lets not do it in the Obama thread. My point was, every nation has its issues, none are perfect and I as an American do not appreciate non Americans hacking on my country. I can only comment on Canada because my family on my fathers side is from there and had a hand in its history. I think America is in danger of following down the same socialist path that Canada has taken and I think both countries are harmed by that. Canada too is a great nation with a proud heritage. Although sometimes I think Quebec gets a bit uppity. Has everything either country done been the right thing to do? No! Nations, as is the same with people, are never perfect. I am against any government of any nation forcing its will upon the people of any country including its own. Socialism does that. Dictatorships do that. Tyrants do that. Obama and Clinton both want to take us down a path of bigger government controlling more and more of our lives and I will fight against that until my last breath. Which brings us back to the point of this thread.

Jura_Neat_Please Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 4606	Fri 03/14/08 07:49 AM
symbelmyne~~ Look at the propaganda you guys are being fed against Chavez..hes a great socialist, the working and poor people of Venezula adore him..the rich who pander to foreign interests are leaving by the droves and buying condos in Miami...I only hope that my country and the rest of Latin America will follow his lead and kick out all foreign interests that come here, take everything they can and leave nothing behind except their garbage (including the politician/pimp that work for them).... I think the begining of this clearly points out she is in favor of a socialist government where the state provides all. Great plan right up to the point where how do you pay for it? That question is for you Mr. Obama.

mnhiker Joined Wed 02/14/07 Posts: 3771	Fri 03/14/08 02:04 PM
Ok, I've been wanting to do this for so long, I finally have to get it out of my system. Screw Obama? That's what Michelle Obama said. badump bump!!!

mamlek Joined Thu 12/27/07 Posts: 121	Fri 03/14/08 02:28 PM
I think now it appears that Hillary might actually get the nomination. Except for NC, there is no state with significant population of AA and there is a huge population of working class in the remaining states.