Torture only results in getting answers that the tortures want to hear from people who really don't know anything. People who are fanatics are not going to tell anything anyway. It is pointless, useless, and a violation of the human rights we are supposed to stand for. That is the use for standing up for human rights if the first thing we are going to do is throw them out the window? It means we are nothing more than hypocrites.

I really like that logic, " they will do it to you so lets be like them and better yet strike first"

You cant realy expect much respect for human life by people who support a war based on lies. I suppose the torture issue is just the tip of the iceberg on all the human rights violations being carried out by our government with our hard earned tax dollars.

No worries, just sit there polishing your hard hat and all will be taken care of for you. Hey! That sounds kinda liberal doesn't it? Woo hoo! I am being reformed as we speak!

you're right torture doesn't always work. Sometimes it does. I agree with Moondark on this; it will get you answers just usually the ones the torturer wants to hear. I agree that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than our enemy, usually we do. I also agree that congress, as well as the preseident, and the people who wanted us to go in the first place may have been mistaken, mislead, etc. I'm not going to point any fingers because the truth is that none of us really know the truth. It is good to question the government on their decisions because it is our responsibility as citizens to keep them in check. One thing you do have to accept is the here and now. We may have made a mistake, now we just have to make sure it doesn't get worse. War is a horrible horrible thing my friend. Horrible horrible things happen during it, this is why so many soldiers are never the same. During a war you are an animal fighting for survival. There is no humane way to fight it. That is the cold hard truth of it. So drink to those that are willing to become animals for our safety. However, it is very good to be concerned with the matter. I think we should focus heavily on how we should do now, to make things better for everyone.

Being that war is such a horrible thing, I will never forgive the government that invaded Iraq for complete and total BS. We have been lied to again and again and all these people suffering for no reasone makes me sick to think about

ok so i was in during gulf 1- point?
no standing army? are you for real or just picking fights for entertainment sake. who were all those guys dressed in their chocolate chips i was working with. they have taken control in , i think i am going to get this number wrong but..... like 12 of 18 provinces, they have a standing army.
colonial uprising? pass the joint dude. criminal government? rail another line. and is it just guys who are fighting? chicks are killing people too when they are put in the position to do so- keep blasting away girls!!!!!! mad you're just m.a.d.- misguided and dilussional.

well said

we arent "torturing" anyone!!! it DOES WORK though history DOES bare that out, fanatics arent so fanaical when they are dying either.
hypocrits? that is like the hippy crowd screaming to protect animals then ranting that third trimester abortions are a wonderful thing.

so tell me again why we invaded Iraq?

The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

clear and present danger. Sadam did in fact represent a danger in the region, he did in fact constantly shot at our planes that were flying in the no fly protecting (at their request) the kingdom of saudi arabia (bastards everyone) and kuwait. clinton himself launchd some missle strikes at sam sites while he was prez. then lets see, for the human rights people, this is the one that i love best that none of you hypocrits ever want to talk about- he killed over a million people, more than half were in his own country (remember anything about the mass graves) some reports have it upwards of 2.5 mil.... but he wasnt threatening anyone was he? adolf set the bar too high did he? doesnt matter anyway any more does it? we're there and we dont want to leave it until it's time. but not to worry, you will have another one to grip about before to long, think we're finally going to do something about africa (bout time too) dont worry it wont increase the price of your stash though.

point set match. you know some decisions arent left up to consensus in this country (and oh by the way , thank god for that)

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

are you serious? really? putting a dog collar on someone, and chopping off body parts are the same thing?

in the middle east they shoot people dead for drinking and driving, or stone someone for having an affair. both cause the person receiving the punishment to doe. people that kill someone over here gets the death penalty and exucuted on the same day.....whats my point, ever drink and drive? think you should be die for it like someone like ted bundy, casy, or daumer?
there are degrees of seriousness. right now your serious meter just went to zero, just like the graib fotos. im done posting with someone who is postig for funnies. going to wipe some sand out of my rack now and get some sleep, , , maybe....

supose to be intelectualy honest you must ask yourself why we allow the same crimes to happen in saudi arabia without protest or why we placed the royal Kuwati government back in power after we "liberated" them

Hey I'm not a COMPLETE animal, I said SURGICALLY remove those various body parts. At least it's humanely done

Torture Unnecessary to Get Information
by Peter Weiss
Last October I attended a reunion of World War II veterans who worked at a secret prisoner-of-war interrogation center at Fort Hunt, Va., near Washington, where many of the top Nazi scientists were interrogated. Some 20 of us, all in our 80s and 90s, came together, many for the first time in more than 60 years, for two days of reconnecting and recollecting.

The camp at Fort Hunt, which was devoted entirely to the interrogation of high-level prisoners of war was one of the most secret projects of the war and was codenamed “PO Box 1142.” Many of us on the PO Box 1142’s small staff, myself included, were refugees from Germany or Austria, since fluency in German was a requirement for the assignment.

At our reunion it was difficult to avoid reflecting on the contrast between the methods of interrogation we had used and those in vogue at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, not to mention the CIA’s “dark sites” in various unnamed countries. One of my fellow veterans said that he got more information from those he interrogated by playing chess or ping pong with them than he would ever have gotten through torture. Another said that we did not commit torture because when you torture you lose your humanity. In truth, some kind of pain-inflicting physical contact would never have occurred to us.

Geneva Conventions

On the second day of our reunion, a retired Army general, an Air Force reserve colonel and a recently retired Defense Intelligence Agency official all commented on the results we were able to obtain at PO Box 1142 by complying with the Geneva Conventions. They also condemned the “aggressive” techniques the Bush administration has put into use as immoral, illegal and of doubtful validity.

Since that reunion in October I have asked myself what could account for this contrast in interrogation techniques. Could it be that the detainees at Fort Hunt had less important information to offer than those at Abu Ghraib? No, the German prisoners provided confirmation about the Nazis’ V-2 rocket work at Peenemuende and their later-abandoned efforts to develop nuclear weapons.

Could it be that the Fort Hunt detainees were more willing to talk because they knew Germany was about to lose the war? No, because some of the most valuable intelligence was obtained by 1142 interrogators in the early years of the war from captured U-boat officers.

Could it have been that “they” were not doing it to our people? No, because the whole notion of officially sanctioned “heightened aggressiveness” techniques originated with the Nazis.

What is it, then, that makes torture, for the first time in decades, a legitimate subject of pro and con discourse? What is it that allows President Bush to say “We do not torture” while refusing to admit that waterboarding, perhaps the cruelest form or torture since the days of the inquisition, constitutes torture? I can only come to one conclusion - that somehow the notion of humanity as the ultimate defense against torture must have fallen off the table.

Peter Weiss is a retired intellectual property lawyer in New York; he wrote this for Human Rights Watch, New York, N.Y.

Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/02/6806/

Get some sleep doc! We don't want you taking a round because you were distracted by the sh*t you read here. Take care of those guys and girls over in the big sand box. One of em is my son.

So when they kill their own people in other countries we should rub our nose in there too? Somalia? China? You know China kills kids, right? I thought we went into Iraq because of WMD's? Or was it that he was supporting terrorism? Wait, then it shifted to freeing Iraq? Korea has WMD's, and Iran is launching a space program. Matter of time before all the energy being wasted on Iraq hits us from behind. Now I do understand we are there, and because of what has been done there we have to stay...but my points have never been "we're still there" my points have always been "why did we go there?". I'm sure you'll defend us going into Iraq too? What happened to Afghanistan (you know, Osama Bin Laden?)?

OBL is more than likely hiding in Pakistan. How about we invade them too? Hell, why not just invade everybody while we're at it? It's not like our military is already stretched way too thin being the world police as it is...