Do the ones who speak of their own fortuitousness as if it is some divine intervention realize the self-supporting nature of this claim?

I mean....

Consider this....



"Thank you God for all of the good in my life..."

That is a thankful prayer which says that God has something to do with it.


Following the same logic...



So then... what happens should one say...

Thank you God for all the starvation in Africa?




Before anyone gets all defensive... THINK ABOUT IT...




What makes your good fortune worthy that God played any role.

Why would he play a role in your eating a steak dinner, while allowing 20 children to die of starvation at the same time you were eating?

Before you falsely accuse me of blaming God...

If you give thanks for your dinner... YOU are the one blaming God.

I do not believe that God meddles in human affairs...

creative

god gets credit for the good,
devil gets credit for the bad.

easier to keep score that way.......

I know God to intervene in the lives of those that request personal and direct guidance.

The testimonies of the intervention become mired all too often in dogma and pride that covets innappropriate attention leading to debate and strife.

Were it all so simple...........

If I were to go and feed homeless person X everyday, would I be guilty if homeless person Y died of starvation?

God blesses, the world curses. If you have a problem with world starvation, you have the power to bless those people.

I do not believe that God meddles either Michael.
When I pray; I pray in the name of Jesus to give me wisdom and to guide me to know which path to take. In my mind He shows me how to go about what I need to achieve a goal. I also believe that God is a universal state. Of which positive things can come when a positive mind and thought is used.

Now, when I am in for a bumpy ride, so to speak, I am forced to use my knowledge and being to reach for a better way. If I am to believe that an evil one is at play...then I must be careful not to give it a voice to use against me.

I have no reasoning to those that are starving and dieing. I feel much pain for them. But, if I am to believe that there is an evil force at work...then it has to be that. An evil pulling and tuggging against good. Giving reason to question.

I wish I had an answer that would compell absolute knowledge, but I do not. Just my belief and faith that God can and will work wonders.

Now, if I have prayed and felt better, or an illness became suddenly better; Would I not place the thanks on Him? If my life is falling apart and I pray; and something comes to me and changes it for the better: who am I gonna thank?

I do not think things happen by mere chance.

Kat

Debate comes when people say they "know" God does these things without anything type of proof that we as humans tend to look for as evidence in everything else we do in our lives. I find it a big ungodly for someone who "knows" God to then judge someone else's viewpoint as being dogmatic and prideful. The debate and strife comes more from someone who is JUST as fallible in their own life as myself trying to interpret the Bible to suit their own human needs.

This country used the Bible as a way to justify the slaughter of one group and the enslavement of another. We have a federal government headed by a simpleton who justifies killing on one hand (Iraqi War) and then condemns it (stem cell research, abortion) on the other. Religion is the human way of trying to take God's will and use it to empower themselves. It's a way to scare people into line, nothing more, nothing less. You can believe in God without being religious (like myself).

Hey wouldee..

you have stated:

" I know God to intervene in the lives of those that request personal and direct guidance."

>>>>>>> Yes, I agree with this notion... Although I am not sure that our understanding of this situation is a 'shared' one...

Divine intervention can be classified as many things, and would indeed be prone to assimilate the observer's acceptance concerning the 'character' of God with the observation at hand. <<<<<<<

the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned [1 Cor 2:14]. In fact how would a man know the things of a man, unless it was by the spirit of man which is in him [1 Cor 2:11]? Hence what all of this is telling us is a person without the Spirit of God is unable to comprehend that which is written in the scriptures but will understand things that are written, with a man’s understanding. So you see, this then explains the reason many vary on what Scripture says and why many have attempted to rewrite the Bible anew. This is also why we can find many religions with many different interpretations of what they believe. And why even others who are of the same religion at times don’t agree. Nonetheless, we know God is not the author of confusion [1Cor 14:33]. Neither are those who are led of his Spirit.

When the scriptures are misinterpreted it leads to confusion and not sound doctrine which is then hypocrisy and what Christ warned us to be wary of. In fact it is written, “where envying and strife is, there is confusion” [Jms 3:16]. So as an example, we’re able to find a person will read a verse in Scripture and profess its translation means one thing yet another man will read the same verse and claim a total opposite thing. And, obviously, by them disputing what scriptures says we know it is due to envy and strife. As an analogy, one will say a verse interpreted means “it is white”. Yet when another person reads this same verse, he tells us, “No, this interpreted means it is blue. When the third man comes along and he too reads the same verse he tells us, “This verse is saying its red”. All of them do this while professing they worship the same god. Others who look upon those who do this have to question, “How can the Word of God be true?” when there are so many interpretations. Others may ask, “What is truth? Is truth found in the interpretation you agree with?”

Kat

cbaldwin:

Welcome...

You have indeed described the problem with religion being used to justify unacceptable behaviours... all too well...

The term 'God' would be well-suited to be dropped from the collective use of language in my opinion.


Kat:

Ah Kat... said so well...

For myself, the notion of God not meddling had to be accepted, or else he had to take blame also...

I do not claim to understand exactly how, but perhaps we, as people, bring out whatever nature is within us with our thoughts and desires. Furthermore compounding those thoughts by the very concentration of them...

CS,

yup. we agree.

I assumed that of you.

I wish more people listened with a loving open heart to the beauty available within and embraced the clarity of lovingkindnesses without the labels.........

Reference points do have value when apprehended well, but the apprehension itself is still the reservoir of contentment, IMO

Wouldee:

Yes indeed,

Are we not all guilty of viewing another through our own perception of reality. That which one internalizes is the measure used for comparison of another's words and or actions.

My pursuit of shedding the world's fingerprint is far from complete, my friend...

I will be the first to attest to that...

Again. it is good to see you.

My pursuit of shedding the world's fingerprint is far from complete, my friend...

??What?? Explain please.

Kat

To answer Kat who is wondering what I meant by the world's fingerprint:

In short, it is the affect on one as a result of the individual exposure of life's experiences...


In the truest of senses... I believe one 'conforms' unto his/her own idealogical exposure, whether out of need or out of convenience, or both, which may or may not include or agree with another's definition of 'right and wrong'. The separate and individual uniqueness of this world's affect upon one shapes his/her view of the world according to the 'agreements' made within each individual which are based on one's inner acceptances of 'truth'(one's internalizations)... one's behaviour will follow suit accordingly.

Until one quits searching for 'inner peace' by looking outward, and at the source of the fingerprint, through the fingerprint, it will always be incorruptable... if there is such a thing as enemy my friend, one is his own worst, when one does not recognize themself, and that which steals one from the 'Spirit' that lives within each of us...

We are all... each... a law unto ourselves... while living life according to it's fingerprint... incorruptably so, without one's own recognition of themself.

I'm a direct result of myself? My past, my present?

Kat

Not exactly,

We are all a direct result of that which to which we have been exposed. And to that which we entertain as being the truth.

One believes that which one creates and one creates that which one believes...

The world's fingerprint is a term which I use to describe the inner acceptances of one as a result of things learned through the teachings. That which one can relate to and internalize as a result of accepting the reasons given when first being introduced to any given notion.

The subtle nature of how one learns to 'read' life is established mostly in early childhood. After this establishment has been 'set' it becomes increasingly difficult, on average, to dispel the internalizations as one grows older and more set in their thought processes. For it becomes necessary to accept the notion that what one has been taught is not 'the only way to look at things'... This can be quite hard to do, because all the 'reasons' have been already decided within one. It takes the conscious ability to disregard ones own internalizations as they had been accepted in past. This cannot be done until recognition. One has to recognize and understand why they have believed as they have. This alone will add understanding with a new comparitive value when one begins to see things differently.

It all adds up to a greater inner peace...



Kat, for what it is worth... I believe that you are doing great...

Kat posted:


She also said much more, including a previous post. The oddest thing of all has happened. It took a quote from the Bible to help me to better understand, the errors of others, when consuming the Bible. How strange is that?

In responce to the OP: I don't know if it was the Lutheran religion I was schooled in, or the Pastors who did the teaching, but in that church, EVERYONE understood one thing about prayer. Its purpose was to maintain connection, to be thankful for that connection and to humbly ask that it be maintained.

As Kat and some others have indicated, for guidance - but that path was never meant to make one's physical life better, that guidance was meant to give inner peace. Obviously when one is at peace within, they are better able to choose the path in the physical.

This is what I was taught, but what I have learned is that inner peace does not require a belief in any particular religion, or in a religion at all. Kat believes that the Holy Spirit lives within every person, regardless of what they 'believe'or if they pray.

From her perspective, that IS THE ANSWER to the question, why does God help some and not others? You see, for her, God does not intervene, but the Holy Spirit does, without bias.

Now THAT, is a Christian faith whose footprints closely match the set of One whom All Christians desire to follow.

So the answer, then, to the OP, is that some Christians have not fully recognised THE WAY, perhaps they have lost it through a higher belief in the power of other humans to interpret for them, instead of accepting the 'guidance' from within.

I'm trying to follow the logic...if I pray to God, he kills a child in Africa? Isn't that the same as if I masturbate than God will kill a kitten?

spider just in case you did not see this, I will post it again...

Before you falsely accuse me of blaming God...

I do not believe that God meddles in human affairs...