gov words are propaganda too

You are right there, no I was talking about all these stats that fly around about how many illegals are on welfare, not. How many illegals are costing Americans in Medical care when they actually use all indigent amounts for this figure and there are far more indigent citizens, etc........

The spin from baby shrubs administration is a perfect example of government propaganda. Hell he convinced a whole nation to assault Iraq and Saddam for 9/11, quite a feat if you think about it. He set his sights on Saddam before even getting into office and used us to carry out his revenge and we bought it.....got to give it to him.

1. We got those laws.. Too bad Corporate America, the well off, the politicians in general simply overlook the possibility of making those laws not worth breaking... They'd rather keep us up in arms and attacking the illegals, each other.

2. No.. How about if we reduce the temptation to imprison people who are just trying to make it in this world?

3. We can do the same thing with a reduced force and heavy electronic surveillance, as opposed to the multi billions of $ it will take to build and man a fence.

Remember. For every measure..there is a counter measure. So making the solution as fluid and adaptable as possible is not something to over look. A wall or fence is kind of a static thing. So is the Chihuahua Desert .. You'd think that would stop them quicker than a fence..and it doesn't.

How about if we take the 90 + billions of dollars we are planning on throwing at the problem, and figure out a way to subsidize our internal work force. That would probably only take half of that budget...

1. If you knew you would go out of business for employiong illegals, you would not do it. I don't mean small fines. I mean serious fines and jail time.

2. The same penalties should apply to those that aid or harbor illegals.

3. The millions of $$ spend on the fences are a bargin when compared to the billions it cost America to support those that the fences would keep out. I would of course employ the latest surveillance technology with the fences.

Regardless to how they monitor our borders and ports it needs to be priority. After that punishing the employers and so on can be done. Do not forget these are humans we are talking about who came here to further their survival. Yes, we are responsible for them being here as it has been going on for 50 years or more and we have ignored it. Had 9/11 not happened it would probably still be ignored. The rich were enjoying the slave labor, we normal everyday Americans just turned a blind eye to the destitution of the slave labor here in our own country. Humanely, we need to offer tests to those who want to be citizens, legalize them and then deport all who do not want to be legal or cannot pass our immigration requirements and then never forget that this is what happens when we ignore illegals coming to our country.

anyone that does not want to integrate needs to be booted. too many people live here and pump up their culture over america's.

The post 9/11 national security issue alone is reason enough to implement my proposed steps. We need to know who is in this country and keep the ones that don't belong out. Those human beings can stay in their own country or legally immigrate.

America is the melting pot of cultures, so what are you talking about here? English language, the great illegitimate fear of English not being our "official language"? You will never need to worry about that. Other countries have people speaking all kinds of languages. It is encouraged. Other languages make people more global and in this world, the more global the better. The up and coming especially need to keep this in consideration. If they hold to their traditions and language it only makes it harder on them here so why is it a worry of others?

You right that the humans who are not already here need to stay in their country and legally come over. The ones that are here is the sticky situation. We cannot do mass deportation it is not humane, so we must find a way to make the qualified ones legal and deport the rest of them humanely.

Most illegal immigrants barely make minimum wage (usually not), work really hard for cash for total jerk employers with no benefits of any kind, in really cr_ppy jobs that most U.S. citizens don't want to work that hard for so little. No, it is not fair that they don't pay taxes, but if they did, they would make so little, that they probaly wouldn't come here to work to begin with. My mother is from Mexico, & she came here legally with a greencard, when she was 13, many years ago. She is now a U.S. citizen & has had her own daycare business for over 25 years. And yes, she does pay taxes, lots of them, and works hard too. Immigrants that come to our country, the right way-legally, pay their dues, stay here their whole lives, learn the language, become Americans and pay their taxes, are most welcome. The others that don't, deserve nothing more than our pity and ticket back home.

american isn't really a melting pot, we all retain our identities to a degree.

i'm speaking of those who claim more alligence to a nation other than america.

i also believe how we classify races is wrong. i'm a mut, so i can't give a good example for myself...but a person should not be an irish-american. no, they're american-irish

if illegals paid taxes, they'd be in the system and couldn't get paid any less than minimum wage

This does not matter at all.

no? i see it as backwards. you should have pride that you're an american first

I'm tired of you people complaining about "illigal immigrants"
"taking" your jobs for you.
They aren't "taking" anything. Companies such as Walmart are "giving" them jobs illegally.
If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans *****ing about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.
If you lose your job to an immigrant, it's probably because he or she was willing to work harder for less money. Don't want to pay them full wages? Then don't hire them. If they do equal work, then they deserve equal pay. It's just that simple, and I'm not going to sit back like every other racist piece of **** *****ing about having to work harder because there's a little competition for my job, immigrant or otherwise. I know I can do my job better than anyone, and if an immigrant thinks he can do a better job than I can, I welcome him to try.
What kind of chicken **** ***** is afraid of competition? Can't get a job because you lost out to an immigrant? Well TOUGH ****. Nobody wants to pay you for your half-assed work if someone else can do it better. That's what America is all about. Our president may be a moron, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let any more jackasses sully the reputation of hard working Americans who are willing to work just as hard as anyone else with or without competition. If you can't cut it, then the people with money will pay it to someone else who can. Maybe if all you people *****ing weren't such lazy, pathetic, blood sucking leeches, you'd get off of your dead ass and work HARDER to do a better job. Get some balls people. If you're too chicken **** and you can't cut it, then maybe it's you who doesn't deserve to live in America. Not the immigrants.

another illegal i bet

You are right in the fact it is being blown out of proportion in many areas. You are also right that the racists are definitely on the bandwagon of this subject. I understand your frustration on this subject.

If an illegal is willing to work for a lower wage, I hope you are not suggesting American's should be willing to work for that same lower wage or just except the fact they won't get the job? Exploiting illegals is a disgusting business practice. Employers that do this need to go to jail. But this does not excuse the illegal from being illegal in the first place. I said this once but I guess I'll say it again. Immigration good, illegal immigration bad. America does have a process to make it legal to immigrate. If you don't or won't meet the criteria to do so then stay out of the country. American's do work hard and they should expect to be paid a fair wage for their labor.

mrtxstar.

You seem like a reasonable individual. Do you have children? People that you love? Maybe siblings and parents? Uncles, Aunts, maybe some cousins?

Now use your imagination. Put you and every one of those people in a place less fortunate then where you are now. It couldn't be that hard for you to imagine if you've been in places like that...

What would you do in an effort to save your children, family and friends? Do you think laws would actually prevent you from trying to improve the lives of the ones you love? Do you think that maybe waiting for a process as opposed to taking action might be a temptation?

Desperation causes desperate acts.

If I was in that position... I'd do what ever it took. I'd be doing legal and illegal acts to maintain what little health I can, of the people I care for. Hauling drugs across a border, hauling myself across a border, to secure employment that can support my family is probably the least of evils I would be capable of if my family's life was on the line.

The only good that throwing desperate people in jails and prisons serves? It brings business to Corporations that build jails and prisons, private industry that run prisons... law enforcement expansion, drains tax base.. makes rich people richer, etc...

Yet.. after we fill every cell.. Fill every potential plot of land with more cells.. Then occupy them... Build a fence ~ Which is worth 10's of billions of dollars Not the millions you estimated earlier ~ put a set of eyes and a weapon at every 5th mile of it... Which will cost another untold billions...

We will still have an illegal immigration problem!

What I find ironic, odd and just plain shady is... for as much air time this issue is getting...

Why is it that we aren't hearing of anyone who really is standing on a platform of stiffening laws to such that it is extremely distasteful to profit from an illegal work force? Or maybe make it more economically attractive to hire a legal work force.

Everyone is taking a stance that just perpetuates the problem.

Why do you suppose that is?

As an ex military man I can tell you I have been to a few third world countries and seen what a horrible place some parts of the world truly are. My heart goes out to those people. I tried to help these people. I can't help but be compassionate to those less fortunate than I. Look back in my previous statement, I said the exploitation of illegals is disgusting. The only ppl I said should be in jail are the ones exploiting the illegals... not the illegals. So don't say I want our prisons full of illegals... I don't. I understand why people would want to come to this great country. I undrestand the dire straits that they are going through... to go to such lengths to survive. I have compassion for these people. These people, these human beings number in the several thousands or even millions. Can Americans afford to support these unfortunate souls when Americans are working so hard to support their own families? It is a sad situation but if it is either us or them, I choose us. Illegals created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. If there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion. America can not afford this, and these numbers are 6 years old. It truly is us or them. I choose us. The fence that I previously suggested is a bargin at any price when you know what the cost are otherwise.