The clockmaker theory got me were I am today

If its the theory that God set up the world and then let it run like winding up a clock

The Kansas public education school board isn't what I meant by higher education. I was referring to the university level. You have a legitimate complaint, but ultimately, the ID advocates are faced with a losing battle ever since the Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial set an important precedent.

The reference to abstinence programs seems like a correlation-causation fallacy or a non-sequitur. You'll have to explain your point since I don't follow.

Well some christians believe in the clockmaker theory. Proselytizing is not the cornerstone of Christianity. Again I think I should know as I am a Catholic. Some religions do it a lot like Pentecostals and mormans but a lot of religions don't. I am from the South and I am in the bible belt. Most people I know are christians and they don't try to recruit people.

Yes thats the clockmaker theory. God created everything and the physical laws that govern it and allowed itself to run on its own.

Does any other Christian here agree with Chazster that you do not need to try and convert people to Christianity?

You know what this led me to then? No miracle's! God does not interfere in the world he just lets it run.

Thats saying that only God can perform miracles. Several people claim to have miracles through saints or Mary.

Not if you believe that God just set up the universe and let it run. Nothing interferes now.

depends on your perspective. You can buy a clock that a clockmaker made and take it home and when it gets dirty you dust it. It only states that the world was designed to run itself. It takes into account evolution and other scientific factors.

exactly scientific factors are all there and can be studied and explained. However miracle's would make science not work. That would be like anything could happen so you flip a switch to turn on a light and it may happen and it may not

medical miracles are not a believe they are a fact. There are documented cases where people should have died and somehow recovered and doctors don't know why. Science can't explain it but it has happened. Sometimes things just happen and they may not be God but we don't have an explanation.

My answer to this is always that I will believe it when I see an amputee grow a new limb. That would be a miracle.


Im off to bed

You'll have to define "miracle". If you mean 1 in a million, then there are approximately 301 miracles a day in the U.S. alone.

I can't say how many, but I know most of us have seen some show where someone is diagnosed with an incurable disease that should kill them and then one day they are fine with no signs they have ever had the disease.

It's really tricky to define "miracle" for philosophical discussion. The scientific method won't allow this concept anyway.

When it comes to people and religion, it is one of the biggest & longest wars running.
If every one just eccepted others for what they believed in, maybe not eccepted, but didn't care whom they worshipped, this world would be a better more peaceful place.
Who is able to say they have walked holding hands with Jesus, or who can say that when you die you either go to Heaven ( Summerland for us Pagans ) or go to hell.
Has anyone actually returned from one of these places to say who is correct?
I think Not!!
I believe in the Goddess and the God, or actually mulitbles of them, but they all make their way back to being one.
No matter if you are Christian, Buddist, Muslem, Pagan, Ect we all have the First and Thirteenth Amendment, Freedom Of Religion, even though it seems that it is in nonexsistance at times.
If it makes some one happy whorshipping Budha, thats great, it makes them happy, what does it have to do with any one else/ Nothing.
I think all God or may I say Goddesses are One.
Can't we all just get along...

GeminiGoddess

Thank the goodnesses, we dont need an amendment to believe in people first... and their beliefs mean zero as to the Who of them.

Ok - TLW

Where'd you go? The women of this thread in agreement with you at least offer a flower? (I'll take mine with tequilla)

This kind of argument to support miracles holds no water. It presupposed that Science and Doctors claim to know everything. Therefore if they can’t explain something then it must be a “miracle”.

Give this just a little bit of thought!

Before we understood the basic laws of physics we didn’t know what made the wind blow. Therefore, because we can’t explain it, then it must be a “miracle”. That’s basically the argument you’re giving here.

People who lived in places that God hit by hurricanes on occasion would think those extremely rare and seriously “abnormal” whether conditions would have been caused by angry Gods. Know we know what causes hurricanes so we no longer need superstition to explain them.

So with your argument above all you are saying is that anything science can’t “yet” explain is a “miracle”.

But science and medicine are constantly being improved upon. Trying to use the failure of science to be able to explain something as proof that miracles are fact is a totally groundless argument.

The best doctors will openly admit that medicine is a guessing game. So when they are wrong they simply made the wrong guesses. That’s hardly a miracle!

<<<<Not a woman but I'll have my tequila straight up.