The topic relates to individual beliefs regarding death and if there is existence beyond the death of the current physical form.

In Christianity and associated religions, there is the 'possibility' of life everlasing. But what I hear so often as reasons to believe are things like "being reunited with your loved ones forever" "being to experience all knowledge and true peace".

My issues with this are great. How could you ever have such peace knowing that all those you have loved in this life will not all be accounted for in your eternal existence? So that theory is totally blown out of the water. And for those who believe in eternal 'punishment', I can't even imagine the torture of living forever in comfort while those I loved are experiencing the most hiddeious pain and discomfort.

For those who believe in karma, the original Eastern form. I've seen how animals are treated, I would rather NOT partake of such a new existence, thank-you!

For those who believe that in Western Karma, that we are aspiring to "something" through a series of 'human' lives in which we must constantly be repaying debts created in past lives. I can only say, this one life was enough for me to be seek all the knowledge possible, so I don't have to do this again.

There are those who believe that we are creations of an intelligence that seeks to expereince all the realms that exist in time and space. For this purpose they create a life form in the realm to be expereinced. Basically there is some kind of intelligent energy capable of installing itself in some symbiotic manner to cohabitate with a human. It also has the ability to take the knowledge of all its experiences with it, when it departs from the human form.

To me, this would be far better than other alternatives, but I simply can't get past the idea that it is the 'ego'. The largest part of that primitive function that keeps us alive, that does not want to cease to exist and therefore leads us to such creative thoeries.

In the end, my philosophy is to seek knowledge. It is more than just a recreation, for with it I have the ability to leave a legacy. With it, I have the opportunity to do good things, to add some small part to the continuance and wellbeing of our species. This is how I define eternal life. This is how my life will continue after this body has committed the final betrayal of the ego.

So tell me, what do you belive and how do reconcile this life with an afterlife and what purpose is there for your eternal existence?

In my religion, we believe that everlasting life. After we die we will still have the same personality but god will give usnew bodies. We will not become ill or grow old.We will not die and we will get to see all our loved ones again.the world we live in now will be no more and a new world will be created. We will all live in peace. that isthewhole point after the world end as I and many believe.

I know I am going to be attacked for saying this by the wackos. All religion is man made. They can't except that they don't have an answer to what happens to you when you die. I say "Who cares!". Worrying about it will not stop it. There is a universal right and wrong and you can feel it. Are you happy when you look in the mirror? I'm not talking about looks either. Look at death this way. Remember when you were growing up and got into trouble? You thought that was the end of the world and you wouldn't make it,but after you did you looked back on how much you over reacted. Same thing with death. Live your life and be happy.

Hi Redy,

well, I am of a mind that this life that we all live can be enhanced by our choices and feeling the joy of living well

I am not one to forsake what we all share now.

The afterlife is somewhat a subjective concept in the forms it takes, but the truth is much more appealing to me.

Living well and making the most of each moment is rewarding in and of itself.

I have my blessed assurance and I am at peace with myself.

I believe in all of us being at peace with ourselves and we all can pursue and enjoy that if we focus on the joy of life.

I find great joy and contentment in being generous and giving of myself to the constructive needs and wants of those around me that appreciate sharing and reciprocating gifts of love and joy.

I will reach out to strangers on occasion, but have found that theft can quench giving much of the time.

We all need to be loved. We all can be.

Forsaking now can only deprive one of what may or may not come and now we have every opportunity to walk in peace and joy if we choose with whom we choose and through whom we choose.

Now is the time to be well, in my opinion.

The future will mind itself, we have no control over that. It is beyond us and we are not beyond ourselves.


your rambling friend,

wouldee?

Maybe the only answer to spirituality is to find and believe in that which gives you the most peace in this life. Can any one belief be more right or wrong than the other? Absolutely no one knows the answer to the afterlife, but believing in a higher power than humankind is not wacko, or wierd, nor does it make you a lesser person. It is actually quite comforting, and humbling.

well wouldee, you took a lot of my words right out of my mouth.

My faith teaches that there is an afterlife. One with Jesus and all our loved ones and friends. But differently. All knowing one another, but missing some of the feelings we shared in life here. No sexual desires. No fear. No unhappiness. No memories of anything bad or negative. Just a joy and peace, and loving feelings. Where beauty abounds everywhere. That being afterlife.

I see afterlife right now. While I can dream of an afterlife in a heavenly place; it is here that I make a difference. It is in my life now that I will be remembered. By my works, my love, my being. The who of me is the how that I will have eternity. Hopefully through my kids and grand kids. Through them, my life will carry on. That is what will determine the way I live now. My life is worthy now and that is how I wish to be remembered. Not the who, that I was before I came to believe in God, or Jesus. But the liver of life, the loving soul that treats others with respect and care. The one that will now give of her belongings to help another. The one that sees if someone takes what is mine, I see it as they must have needed it more than Me.
Material things are nothing really.

My heart is who I am today. My deeds are who I am today. My kids are who I am today. I shine through them. I see them changing in my mirrored reflection.

Is it my ego that wishes to live on? No, I don't think so. If there is an afterlife of the heavenly kind; will I see a proud family, mindful of their mothers teachings? I hope so. But if heaven does exist, I will see it with love, not pride.

Do I want my family to remember me with pride? Yes. And they will so long as I continue on MY path as it is now. Therefore having made my eternity real.

Kat

Mcats3 - thank for your responce. It is the basic responce that I am so use to. I'm sure you've heard the following kinds of responces, how would you answer these?

A new physical body, with the same personality. Of couse it will be a good personality, as only the best are made new. But will the body eat? Will the body be capable of reproduction? If we eat, who will do the work to provide the food? If God provides for everything, what will we do? If the 'personality' that one carries with them is very creative and likes to paint - where will the paint and paper and brushes and such, come from. If one's personality enjoys puzzles and learning new things - who will provide the lessons? What interaction will we have, if there is no work and no striving. Without failure how will we learn?

Finally, what purpose would there be to such an existence? The most ecologically sound zoo is a nice place to visit but I sure don't want to be kept in one. What is the lure in this for you?

I asked for opinion, you gave it. No attack should be expected.
However, if one is made, you have warranted it by your terminology 'wackos'!

Let ask you - is the "who cares" idea part of the "universal right" that you believe prevails?

I was asking for thoughtful opinion, your's is quite contradictory, but you are still welcome to it. And I would invite you post anytime, but I would ask for some "universal respect".

Thanks again!

I have no answers for you Di. I have been taught that heaven holds gardens of splendor, colors brighter than we have ever seen. Bounty, so there is no hunger.

I do not know these things. I dare not to hold them as total and complete truth. a dream? Hmmmmm, maybe.

As I have said; I see my eternity as here and now. Extending after my demise through those that have known me.

If in fact heaven is leisurely and void of duty as we now know. Then, wouldn't it follow that it is a peaceful place? I am sure there would be art. Upkeep, whatever we wish.

I have never been more calm than in a remote place of nature and wildlife. Trees all around, the sun, the grass, the absolute serenity of it all. Doing nothing but walking and laying in the grass under the sky. Awwwwww, what a time.

Sounds like heaven to me.

Kat

I kind of agree with you and don't really want to exist forever. I have also thought about this before and the bible says heaven is eternal bliss. Well I am sure we have all heard of the theory of relativity, based on this heaven would have to become increasingly blissful as long as you are there because if it remains a constant it will just become ordinary and not bliss.

Wouldee, appreciate your thoughts.



It seems to me that adopting such thoughts is more apt to create the peace you seek. It seems that too much inner turmoil exists when others can not allow for a difference of belief.


TSW:

I suppose it that comfort that leads so many to take on their beliefs. I think, for some, there is no comfort in believing that destiny is completely in the hands of a creator, whose intents and purposes are totally unknown. Therefor, many seek to answer the questions of the unknown through science without worry that the answers may compete with an otherwise unscientific doctrine.

KAT - I am not challenging you, but I would ask the same questions of you as I asked of Mcat in a previous post. You see, I sense no peace in the kind of life you portray. Unless we are stripped of our sense of adventure, our joy of learning, and our need to be useful. And if you strip all this away, as well as our sexuality and our desires then exactly how much love can be left? How much thought will be independent? Basically WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE?

Chazster - that is exactly the point. Without challenge, without rewards and failures, how happy an existence could we have. Strip us of all the needs and emotions of this life and what personality can remain?

If all who exist only love, what force would drive us to 'attain' anything, even to work to get our food?

Now take away the body, and what remains? Only the life force that was "breathed" into humans - but where does it say that this force is ours?

If that force is within us, but it belongs to God, is that not the 'returning home' or 'returning to the maker' that is spoken of? Yet the maker is often considered to be without form and substance. For any intelligence that is 'consistant', in other words has mass and form, would be limited in it capabilities.

Well, that is my logic - I'm certainly open to those who wish to present some other logic in dispute.

I did not think you were Di.

It is taught that our will are not the same. We are changed in mindful ways. I do not know for sure. So, we would not be trying to fulfill what we here do on a daily basis.

To me....if heaven could be descriptive as field of dreams...I for one could not be happier. Sex in a heavenly place would be also void. Children are not born there, but children would be there.

Sex is a moot point for me to be heavenly. Sex is not a perfect thing. Sometimes something to be left alone. It is never perfect. So why would it be in a heavenly place?

Don't get me wrong....I like sex with the right person, but never all the time.
Why would it be in heaven? It is a fleeting thing, temporary, no real value?

As for art and writing...not sure. I like my art. I paint and draw. Would I miss it? I do not know.

I love to garden though. With many gardens, I just might be in heaven.

Kat

I agree that many are not comforted by the thought of being in the hands of the unknown. I think that this may be partly due to fear of the unknown, which fuels the issue on both sides.

I certainly don't know for sure, but I don't beleive that our purpose in the afterlife is meant to be the same as our purpose in this life. Who actually 'defines' our purpose at any given time?

Perhaps afterlife is simply a state of peace or unrest, with no defined purpose. We don't want to think of anyone that we love being in a place of unrest, but that isn't something that would be in our control. The possibilites are truly endless. For many, the point is simply to have faith in something past this life, and in doing so, we realize that there are some questions to which we were never meant to have the answers.

Great discussion.

You know what..when I said wackos. I was talking about certain groups of people who take the name of their God or Gods and do what ever they please and justify it by some religion. My comments to you were to try to cheer you up, but you took it the other way. It's called thinking outside the box. Not what someone has told you to think. The Muslims are peaceful,right?? It was just a few. Christians are good right?..People burned at the stake in Salem. Holy Crusades? Spanish Inquisition? Holy War? Ever notice the so called do-gooders that are trying to run our lives are usually the first ones caught doing the bad things.

tsw:

Yes, each of us fears the unknown in our own way. As for believing in a deity/s I suppose it could simply be that some just refuse to believe that they can not be self sufficient or individual. I do have fears of the unknown, but oddly (maybe)it's not a universal fear, it's more a fear of having to face suffering, of any kind, in others or myself.

The other unknowns are a challege to me, as in can I figure it out, can take the challenge and be wiser. That kind of thing.

But fear is definately a number one emotion, it's just that some find a way to face it, and it might be with a deity or without. Thanks for the comments, tsw.

Hey Marine,
truce! I'm sorry you felt misunderstood, but I totally got you on that. I don't seem to fare too well in these threads with sarcasm, but it tends my nature anyway. I was simply trying point out that others might well take offence, forwarned, if you will.

You were really kind to try to 'cheer me up', sometimes my serious side, seems rather glum, but I wasn't depressed at all, just questioning.

However, I did find contradiction in your point of view which is why I asked about the who cares statement in conjunction with your idea of right and wrong. Because, for me, I think everyone should 'care'. From the small circle of loved ones to the broader spectrum of friends, about humanity and about the nature of the universe.

But after your recent reply, I realize you made the "who care's" statement for my benefit - so I do apologise for my communication error.

I hope you will contine to post in these threads, it's always good to find someone willing to explain when there is a question, rather than creating an argument.

I don't believe in an afterlife or reincarnation due to insufficient evidence. Moreover, I've always had problems with the orthodox Christian concept of heaven and the glorified mind-body idea. What happens to the people with Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injuries, stroke, mental retardation, developmental disorders, children, etc.? Whose "personality" and "body" to they receive? The story falls apart when taken to its logical conclusion. I usually hear replies like, "God's ways are mysterious", "All shall be made known if you get there", and "What if you're wrong? Do you want to go to hell?" Those aren't convincing arguments.

What I meant by that was,universal right and a wrong while living and who cares when death comes. Its about how you lived.