By the context, the assumed author (Paul) appears to be referring to Christian piety, dietary customs and the various opinions held b/w Torah Christians and Gentile Christians. Again, it's theological biases and interpolation to arrive at your conclusion that "denominations are a result of Romans 14" as you stated using the verses cited. Factions existed when Paul wrote this epistle, I concede that. However, it certainly doesn't explain the 30,000+ denominations of Christianity today, and as such, why I wanted Kal to clearly define his "Christianity" for the sake of argument.

Again, this all begs the question. Which "authority" does one use and why? The very "doctrinal issues" you raise hinge on having clearly established which 'Bible' to use and why and how you can extrapolate your theology from scripture when so many "brands of Christianity" differ. Major or "minor issues" are ambiguous qualitative values which you'd have to distinctly define as well. Doctrine must arise from somewhere, right? Who is right? And how do we know?

Anyway, it'll be more productive for Kal to clearly define his terms of "Christianity" so we can discuss this further. I don't want to get too far off track.

Thanks for your input.

cuzim - seems we have the host caught between a rock and, well you know. You ask I ask, if his answers are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps Kal feels that we both have responces to any offering he might give in this regard.

So that he doesn't feel 'hooked', my reason for asking was just to determine how many poeple the Holy Spirit talks through and then to compare what Kal's HS responds with past posts of those ALSO inspired through the same HS.

See Kal, no hook on my end, just wondering if there might be more than "three persons" in this deity called God.

The authority is personal faith.



Christians believe that by seeking God, God will reveal himself to us. Our devotion to finding God is rewarded with Faith, which is the first gift we receive through the Holy Spirit. Once God has revealed himself to us, we are slowly molded into the image of Jesus. This slow molding process means that one Christian will smoke while another will feel it is a sin to smoke. God will slowly and gently mold those who love him and he won't give us more than we can handle at a time. Faith is sometimes a very fragile thing (actually not faith...desire to have faith). If someone feels overwhelmed, they will stop trying to be a Christian.

That's why I wouldn't belong to a denomination. Someone might join a denomination and find it's doctrine too controlling or they might find the denomination too lax in their doctrine. Either case, can lead someone to lose the desire to have faith. Once the person no longer desires to have faith, they will quickly fall away from the church.

I have a question. ????
I know this is a forum of people looking to find someone. We all have our advertisements for ourselves on this site saying that we are looking. I think most of us are here for similar reasons as myself. (Correct me if I am in error on this) We have been married, failed, and are now looking to try again. Can I ask a question? Is it right for people such as myself to seek out a new mate?
What does the Bible, the King James Bible, the Word of God advise us?
These are the words of Jesus.
Matthew 5: 31. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
When the Pharisees confronted Jesus about marriage and divorce, this is what He had to say.
Matthew 19:3. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4. And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5. And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8. He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Mark in his gospel also recounts what the Lord had to say about marriage and divorce.
Mark 10
1. And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.
2. And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
3. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4. And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8. And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
11. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
In the Gospel of Luke:
Luke 16:
14. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
16. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
18. Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Paul in his first epistle to the church at Corinth said this:
1 Corinthians 7
1. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
This entire seventh chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians is worth a study.
24. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
25. Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
26. I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
27. Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
39. The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
These verses were rattling around in my head today as I was painting. I knew I had set about to find a new mate. There is a part of me that feels doing this is not right. There is another list of verses I could come up with that tell us to find a help meet and to treat her as we treat our own bodies.
Ephesians 5
28. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30. For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
I would be interested in what other God fearing mate seekers think about this.
Lord, give me wisdom to know what is right.
JB

I dont however appreciate the back-handed remarks, as well as the fact that i dont respond on your posts in a timely manner, i have a busy life as well. i will answer your question. Yes, i believe for me to ask God for wisdom on such a fourm i would not be in the mindset to answer such question would I? Kinda like a meditative state when im on the fourms in general, and providing answers not based on my opinion but to the best of my knowledge God has given me.

Yes, again i shall say it Cuzim, i do not practice any added fourms of doctrine other than what is written in the bible.

JBTHE, i believe you are correct. I have to have read somthing along those lines, however i believe it starts when you engadged in a relationship not ordained by God. It seems we act in the physical and emotion parts of a relationship and run short on the spiritual side. To me this relationshiped has already been failed, so divorce is a reaction based on the action of entering a impure marriage. Yes we are commiting adultry but we committed such sin long before when we said the words "I DO" and did not mean such. DO we as humans take too much for granted?

Kal - you have set in your mind a pre-judgement of me. This does not bode well in deference to your faith. Cat Stevens once wrote a song that said "you're young that's your fault".

Not meaning that it's your fault that you are young, but that your perceptions are guided by a hither-to limited existence.

If you are made whole by your faith, it is yours to keep and I would not attempt to place a door where one is not wanted. I was simply asking a question. I was not even considering the space of time between your answers, I was merely considering the two posts of cuz and myself and knowing how you already judge me, just as you offer prayers for the unbelievers, I was attempting to give you a door.

I accept all the positive energy that flows from prayer, but you, in your ill-conceived judgement of me, diminish the same positive energy offered on your behalf by projecting negative energy to ward it off.

Here is my forgiveness - 'You're young that's your fault'.

Thats gotta be one of the best songs of all time

I agree rabbit, Cat Steven, wrote phenominal poetry. It must have come from a soul ready to accept faith. His new direction was a sad day for the world of music, but music did not fulfill his need.

The funny thing is I liked to sing that song as a kid and son and I still like to sing it now as a Father. Now that is some real skill in song writing.

so explain where you came to that conclusion?>

TO Kal: I respect your right to believe what you want. It's your prerogative. However, my questions have not been answered in a way which allows an open, intellectually honest discussion. To pursue that end, you have to clearly define your terms and definitions other than making an arbitrary appeal to a standard like "I do not practice any added fourms of doctrine other than what is written in the bible." That statement doesn't explain your position or views on Christianity, but it dismisses my entire line of questioning that I presented earlier.

No offense, it would have been better to stipulate in your OP what your personal tenets of faith are, so I don't confuse your concept of Christianity with another. I feel that was a reasonable request.



TO Spider: Appeals to personal faith as authority is a logical fallacy. It's a postmodernist tactic that makes truth-claims out to be whatever suits your fancy and in effect, answers nothing when rationally scrutinized. In accordance with that argument, every claim made by a Christian is true as long as it's believed, but if two disagree on the grounds of faith, then logically, they can't both be right. One is most definitely wrong. Now, multiply that by the 30,000+ denominations, and the millions of Christians on the planet, and you'll see what a huge problem you've created with that line of reasoning. We're back to square one for determining what's truth. Of course, the problem worsens when Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, etc. use the same argument.

Thanks to both of you for your input.

Don't seek religions



Seek him