I gotta give credit where credit is due. You and Abra have explained it about as well as most people can. I have tried
transcendental mediation, so far I have been unsuccessful, I believe this is due in part by my tendency to ground myself to the physical world. Science shows us that all things are energy on some level, it also shows us that energy never ends, but instead changes form. So if one where to consider God not as a seperate entity, but insead as a state of being within ones self.To find God one must only look within their selves.

That's exactly correct.

Even after having experienced it, it is still senseless in term of 'rational knowledge' or 'logic'.

It can only be experienced, it can't be 'explained'.

That's the whole point.

And the experience of it, does not explain anything.

I've been there and experienced it. And that's all I can say about it, - I experienced it.

But I was able to bring something 'rational' back from that experience, and it is this,...

1. Everything that can be experienced cannot be rationally explained.

2. Having experienced it doesn't 'rationalize' it.

3. Not being able to explain it rationally doesn’t diminish the experience of it.

4. It ‘proves’ nothing, other than it is possible to continue to ‘perceive’ even when there is nothing being ‘perceived’ but the ‘perceiver’ – and that is the essence of the experience.

Does it prove a ‘god’? No.

Does it prove an underlying spiritual essence? No.

All it does is convince the person who has had the experience that a state of ‘sentient perception’ is possible without any stimuli whatsoever. Neither, ‘wordy, comprehensible, analytical thoughts of the mind’ nor ‘physical stimuli of the body receptors’ are necessary to continue to ‘perceive’.

Does that suggest that we are not truly physical beings? No, not at all, but it does suggest that perception may well be possible without a physical form since clearly no stimuli is necessary to continue to perceive.

And when you have the experience you are thoroughly convinced of this (even if it’s a delusion, it’s one hell of a delusion. )

I know this doesn’t answer your question, nor was it intended to.

It’s just food for thought.

I agree with you completely on your original stance that appealing to the irrational to explain the rational is itself an irrational circular silliness.

If you want to get beyond logic you have no choice but to ‘pretend’. That’s what faith is. I pretend that the universe has a spirit and I’m part of it. And that works for me. Christians pretend that Santa Claus is keeping track of whose been naughty and nice and that works for them. If you want to believe in something you have to learn to pretend. That’s all there is to it.

And atheists are not exempt. They are just pretending that there is no God and that works for them.

The only really sane people left are people like you who refuse to pretend.

But look at what it’s doing to you? OMG! You’re going to go insane if you keep this up!

You’re trying to arrive at an answer without being willing to pretend. You’ll go crazy and they’ll put you in a funny farm if you keep that up. You need to pretend in something! It doesn’t matter what you chose to pretend, just chose something and start pretending like everyone else does or you're going to drive as ALL crazy!

I don't know much about the meditation that you speak of....so I have no comment there.....But where you say to consider God not as a seperate entity, but instead as a state of being within ones self. So your saying you think your God....that is the most ludecris thing I have heard thus far...and what confirms it is that abra totally agrees with it. But see here is the big difference if you have not experienced God in all his majesty then you would look at yourself and think you are God the flowers are God, pleazzzzzeeeeee

Things happen to us in life but we choose how we react to them. This is the same to me. We have some knowledge of our surroundings (very little- but it's enough to convince us that we know it all). We look around, see what makes the most sense or seems the most true or speaks to us and thats what we embrace. Thats what we choose to believe.

You can call it "pretending" or "faith" or whatever you like... it's what you choose to believe and live by- I don't see how there will never be any concrete, irrefutable answers- at least not in this life.

Peace and Joy.

I gotta give credit where credit is due. You and Abra have explained it about as well as most people can. I have tried
transcendental mediation, so far I have been unsuccessful, I believe this is due in part by my tendency to ground myself to the physical world. Science shows us that all things are energy on some level, it also shows us that energy never ends, but instead changes form. So if one where to consider God not as a seperate entity, but insead as a state of being within ones self.To find God one must only look within their selves.



I don't know much about the meditation that you speak....so I have no comment there.....But where you say to consider God not as a seperate entity, but instead as a state of being within ones self. So your saying you think your God....that is the most ludecris thing I have heard thus far...and what confirms it is that abra totally agrees with it. But see here is the big difference if you have not experienced God in all his majesty then you would look at yourself and think you are God the flowers are God, pleazzzzzeeeeee




Feral-

Many established religions accept that we are all god or part of god. I'm not sure how this is more conceptually ludicris or really all that different from man being created in
"god's image"? Or god being a father, son and spirit all at once? Many religious beliefs sound "silly" "scary" or "strange" to unbelievers.

I don't understand your need to make fun of anothers religious beliefs. I could be mistaken but I thought that you recently stated that one who is content in ones own beliefs has no need to mock the beliefs of others? Have you become discontent with your own beliefs?

That’s the bottom line right there.

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." – Richard Feynman

Yes, I absolutely agree with it. The universe is God. God is the universe. And we are children of the universe. Manifestations of God. God is omniscient and lives within all of us. We are the spirit, the spirit is us.

How many ways can this be said.

With God all ways are possible.

By the way, I think Ludechrist was the fallen angel who became Satan.

Ok try and comprehend this.....God is God.....

The universe is the Universe....

Which God created.....they are not one in the same. If you want to be children of the universe...well have fun with that...I am a child of God....The Holy Spirit is in me....not the flowers, not the mountains, not the trees, The spirit of satan is in you.....And I think you are a spawn of satan.....

Wow, talk about a judgement, whew.

Okay, I can take it that one would "call" the life force god if you so want to but my point here is there is no outside force that does anything outside of us. We are the force, all living things are the source, Living plants, living animals, even the one celled organisms are the force of this energy. So it eminates outwards from us not inward from an entity or whatever. We are one with this energy of the universe, granted so it could be assumed that the energy is god. But it cannot be connected with any religion out there, not that I have found. All religions are based from a entity or entities of force that grace us with their spirit so to speak, when in truth we (all living beings) actually grace the universe with our spirit.

I am all for being at one with the universe but to think that I am the all and all, and the reason for everything is just being stupid...I don't call this judging as much as my opionion...because if you want to believe it...like I have said many times you have fun with that. I believe all you say is panthiest babble......If you knew me at all.....I am all for saving this planet, it's beautiful animals, and the lost, and down troden.....But I know the difference between what I do as a human and Who and What God IS, DOES, AND WILL ALWAYS DO. God has given me some amazing gifts and insights and to think that I even come close to His Beauty is just a lil whack for me.

And if you asked anyone outside of your little circle about me as a human being I think you would be shocked at the answers.


Here is a little interesting experiment you can do.....I have a matchmaking Game thread that is on it's 7th Game in less then 15 days....and not 1......argument has occurred......So before you judge me...and/or think I am judging any of you.....Get a clue.

feral, the only part of my post that was directed at you was the "calling" of abra the "spawn of satan". I said that was a hell of a judgement there. Your opinion, I guess.

The rest of my post was directed at the previous posters who called the energy I speak of god. I should have made myself more clear.

I am sure that out of obedience to your god you do all kinds of charitible things. I cannot say a thing about that. Most people of devout faith do do charitible things out of want to please their god. I say good for them. I have nothing against you for your religious beliefs or lack of, either way, I accept you as one of the living beings of light.

When abra says stuff like this

Ludechrist Please dragoness don't expect me to stand by and not say a word...as much as I have wanted to bite my tongue with that man....sometimes it just can't be done. And also just FYI I do nothing in my life to as you say "Please" God....I do it as someone who "Follows" Christ teachings.....And when you make lil comments dragoness like I have nothing against you for your religious beliefs or lack of......Please.......you honestly don't have a clue about any of it. And who is judging who. If there is one thing I know people will say about me is that I do not judge anyone...it is not my job......And I honestly don't think any of you can say the same. And get a clue I am not a being of light.....Lights you turn on and off....

Sorry, no offense intended but you are full of judgements of all of us who are not like you. And spite and bitterness spit from you. Why so much venom? If your god makes you so full of love for humanity, where is the love? I am not feeling the love. Again I say that out of question, wanting to really know, not out of offense you. You are still a creature of light to me, whether you feel the energy of the light of life we all share or not, it is there.

I don't get offended dragoness I just get sick and tired of comments like this. I have nothing against you for your religious beliefs or lack of.....and then acting all high and mighty that you don't judge...what would you call that....You have no clue about my relationship with Father God. I don't hate you why should I.....I love everyone....but I take no guff from nobody....Have you ever been brought to complete tears running down you face...And I don't mean a few tears I mean constant river running tears. Have you ever been brought to your knees with such an overpowering love that you didn't even know that kind of love could ever exsist. Well that is my God......I have been shown many things by God and miracles that I could not deny him......And when anyone speaks of what they don't know, and say he is not real.......Yes I get upset....but more then upset I get sad. My God teaches me that he is the only Judge.

It's funny cuz you go anywhere else except in religion and that is all you will see from me. I help others, I make threads to teach, and/or to help people....and this is not because it is expected of me from God....But because I love people and I want to help them. Again if I gave you random people from the threads and you asked them Dragoness about me......I am sure it would probably shock you....Because I exude, love, and kindness, caring, compassion, It's inait within me because of the Love of My Savior.

You are still a creature of light to me, whether you feel the energy of the light of life we all share or not, it is there.


just as to ppl such as feral and i that share the same set of beliefs, you are a child of our God whether you acknowledge it or not.


feral, i love you sis. i hate to see you get so upset. feral is a sweet, sweet woman who loves everyone and would do anything for others. sometimes, she feels backed into a corner as all of us do at times and lashes out. i, personally, avoid certain ppl when they are in full battle (attack the christians) mode on here b/c i dont want the drama or the venom in my life. i just have a different way of doing things.

well u ever think that theres something more then god?or that he was created for us to follow...
i say this b.c a few things have happend in that past few months
ive seen a ufo

and people,creditble people,have seen ufos.

maybe they put us on here and experiment to see how and what would happen to us.

and humans beings are so dumb that we need a "figure" to guide us...

just a thought..

Awww sweetie ty......And I don't shoot venom at dragoness either.......I am truly a peaceful person......I am the one that takes care of others who battle....But Make fun of my God, His son Jesus Christ....and yes you will have a battle in this lil lady.

Thanks Winnie I love you oodles.

i love you too feral. i look up to you b/c you go headfirst into battle. you are a warrior. that is your postion in God's army, not mine. i have another place. and yet, you are peaceful. i know how hard it is when you see our God being bashed and made fun of. stay strong sister.

I would not ask about you of others because others opinion of you does not matter to me, I deal in my reality. I do not feel all the love you speak of. That said, I tried not to put you on the defensive. If you know that your are right for yourself, who cares what others say about you? I will not say anything bad about you to others because they are not my reality dealing with you. It is you and me.

I believe we all have the right to how we believe. You feel persecuted at some level but I do not see the persecution.

As for being brought to my knees for the love or whatever of an entity outside my realm of reality, no. I have been in many churches and around very devout people and this love from an outside entity still evades me. On the other hand I have a self-sustaining love inside of me that would be more powerful than any outside entity could ever hope to be.

As for the guff you take or don't. I really was not giving you guff with the statement of you believing your religion or not. That wasn't guff and made no judgement. I left it open to what you believe and do not believe. I did how ever call "calling" someone the spawn of satan a judgement and it was in my eyes. I was very shocked by it considering that you say your god is the only judge. I guess I could be wrong you may have been given that right by your god and I am just not aware.

So if my read of that judgement was wrong, I willingly apologize for the misread.

I am not attacking your beliefs, at least this time I am not. In other threads and other times I have "attacked" your belief meaning christianity for the failures of logic in it. I have my opinion on it and that is here nor there right now.

I will now make a judgement of you. I think you are a wonderful person who through your religion gets a great satisfaction. That is my only judgement of you considering the short time in knowing you.