...for somebody.

That is to say, when I hear 'Make America Great Again" my mental question is 'for who?" because it really has never been exactly great for all.

In the founding fathers days, it was great for white males, who had obvious authority and respect over any other demographic, made the laws, set the policies, started and ended the wars, and were in many situations the only ones to really enjoy 'rights' in this country.

Then came the freeing of slaves, but it still was not great for them because they transitioned that demographic right into Jim crow laws, so essentially it was still only white males with the 'rights' and the power.

Then came women's rights, which gave women more power symbolically, but still expected them to work within a good old boys network of things.

And the whole while, it has not been great for immigrants, who historically are blamed for job losses and violence.

Then the pendulum swung the other way, and Christians began to be painted as the demographic of oppression and anti freedom who have to more or less hide their values to function in a secular society.

So, from where I am standing, when someone says, 'make america great again', it says to me they maybe long for a time where certain demographics held more advantage than others.

Make America Greater, now that, I'm all for.

Sing it sister. Perhaps they're referring to a time when it belonged to the native Americans, I mean they're not obviously. But at least that would make sense

I think that the entirely accidental cleverness of the MAGA meme, is precisely that it IS impossible to pin down.

Supporters can advocate all manner of good or bad ideas in the name of MAGA, and declare all opponents to those ideas to be OPPOSED to America being "great", accordingly.

By refusing to define MAGA goals specifically, advocates can call for self-blinded support for all manner of things, including moves that will assuredly serve to make the United States subservient to or dependent on other nations...on the grounds that greatness is a mysterious ideal.

It was great for the first nations peoples, before European invasion, then it wasn't so great.

Two important themes already identified:
1. MAGA is undefined and each has their own interpretation of when America was great if at all.
2. Some have seen America get better while others have seen it get worse.

Our real problem is not understanding how others feel and how the direction of the country affects how they feel. Some of us are very happy with Trump and where he is trying to take the country while others are very unhappy with that. What we don't share is the why we have that great difference in our feelings. As an older, white male, I have no perception of what being an inner city minority is all about. Likewise if you are an inner city minority, you have no perception why I hate what happened in the previous administration. To me, we wasted 8 years and accomplished nothing in America; we have made more progress in the last 2 years than those preceding 8. I'm sure some of you feel that the last 2 years destroyed some of what you considered progress in the preceding 8. Until we and our elected politicians start to understand each others feeling and perceptions, we will continue to become more polarized as a nation. That polarization cannot continue for eventually it will explode!!

See. thats odd to me when people claim Obama accomplished 'nothing'. Thats REALLY strange. I mean, people dont remember where we were headed in 2009? But 'nothing' was accomplished?

And it could be an implicit bias thing or it may not be. I cant shake the feeling that him being the first 'black' man caused a different standard to be applied, than say a wealthy old white man. But those are my perceptions and feelings.

And 'perception and feelings' are exactly, I believe, the wrong motivation for a government to set laws, policies and budgets on. Too many people have too many 'feelings and perceptions'. I feel what is significant is the researchable hard NUMBERS and DATA that show where AMerica as a whole (per capita information) must maintain, change, or progress.

For me, it had nothing to do with him being black but all about his beliefs and proposed solutions to our problems.

You talk about perception and feelings vs hard numbers and facts. It is why those hard numbers and facts exist and possible solutions. For instance we have free public education K-12. There is no possible excuse why graduation rates are as dismal as they are in some parts of the country. Add to that, people "graduate" from high school yet do not have a basic education. Why and how do we fix that? Why do we expect teachers to deal with the country's social ills? Why is a student's poverty an issue for teachers? It is the perception and feelings behind those whys that are where the problem is. You can't fix a problem until you understand the causes of the problem; then you can start looking for possible solutions!

again beliefs and actual accomplishments, to me, are different, although they often prove each other out, they are not exclusively tied together.

So, we are talking about accomplishment. And yes, I believe part of our cultural issue is the love of money and the way we use it to place value on human life. Public education is 'free' but someone pays for it. Property taxes are funding that free education, which means all free education wont be equal since not all property is equal in all areas and regions of the country.

That is why not all schools use the same quality of books or technology, or can pay the same quality of teacher, and why education becomes so unequal across the country.

I suspect our cultural attitude of 'any job is better than no job' wrangles in a portion of check seekers who arent really invested in or prepared to invest in what the outcome is for the kids, and many others who genuinely and with good intent think that they are and then become overwhelmed when real life happens.

I dont know what fix there is for it, because I believe it also stems from a problem with our cultural values and how we view the lives of other human beings.

Public education is supported by the local property taxes, support from your state government and support from the federal government. The voters have control over the amount of funding from each by their votes. It has 0 to do with the value of the property and all to do with the local mill rate for schools levied on that property. The only effect of property valuations is in which home owner/renter gets to pay a larger amount not the total amount collected. When voters do not want to pay a larger local share they do not value an education and the education system along with the students suffer. I think what you are trying to point out is that in low income areas, the ability of the residents to provide adequate school funding is an issue. That should partially be offset by the state government funding. There is also the factor of what the local school funding is used for; it should not be used to fund social programs.

You failed to mention the role of a parent. It is the responsibility of the parent to send their children to school on time, rested, clean, and fed. Likewise at the other end of the day they have the responsibility to feed their children, see that homework is completed, and the child is in bed at a reasonable hour. It is not the responsibility of the school system to make up for the failure of the parents.

I would disagree it has nothing to do with property when nearly half of funding is from property tax.

but in either case, I did forget to mention parents, which, in my opinion, are also impacted by the culture that values people by the money they make. More and more two parent families with both parents at 'jobs' upwards of 40 hours week each, leaves less and less time invested in children, and puts more and more of the power in the hands of technology, media, and schools to take over many of those areas that the old family structure would have had a parent at home able to devote themself to doing.

I agree with you here, but....I fail to see how the previous administration made things worse...

My dad taught me how to read....
And the alphabet.

He worked full time, was actually gonme a lot...but manged to do it.
(my mom couldn't because she was from Germany, and was relly still learning to read and write English herself..she could speak it fine..)

With a lot of parents today working 2 jobs, and *still not making ends meet easily, I see how they could be stressed out the point of not doing their part.

The solution to THAT is to make it possible for people to afford rent/ morgages and utilities and transportation (many areas do not have adequte public transport and therefore people need cars)...pay them enough so maybe mom COULD stay home if she chooses, and teach the kids that stuff and see to their upkeep..

Many post office workers, teachers, factory workers, store managers, etc. were QUITE capable of supporting a family on their income alone..

And, people back then *had* cars..took a vacation once a year....didn't live in poverty/ with nothing.

I know...the neighborhoods I grew up in all the mom's were at home, and people had stuff....and none of the dads were high-dollar professionals...

Here's where I lived before we moved to TN..(I'm weird that way that I still rememeber the address..and phone number...LOL)

Definately not ritzy, nor poor...


https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/915-park-ave-garner-NC_rb/

I explained why the value of the property has nothing to do with the amount of property taxes paid, only who pays them. I do realize in poor communities what you are up against is the capacity of the residents to pay higher taxes and their willingness.

I'm well aware of the issue of 2 working parents and trying to find time for the family. It is always a juggling act but the family and the children need to be priority. People also need to be realistic about the lifestyle they can afford. There is not a need for a large house or a new car or fancy clothes; it is strictly a want on the part of the people!

Please stop making excuses for the losers and failures in society. Until we acknowledge those failures we cannot find solutions to the problems.

To recognize real struggles and obstacles, especially those that can be addressed and improved, is not 'making excuses'. Calling people 'losers' for their difficulty with obstacles and struggles is not helpful either.


We can find solutions to social obstacles and struggles. We can work together to get things done instead of making it all one sided or putting it all on any one person or group of people.

To recognize real struggles and obstacles, especially those that can be addressed and improved, is not 'making excuses'. Calling people 'losers' for their difficulty with obstacles and struggles is not helpful either.


We can find solutions to social obstacles and struggles. We can work together to get things done instead of making it all one sided or putting it all on any one person or group of people.

You didn't read one word of what *I* said, did you?

I adressed most of what you're stating..

We're not talking about "large house or a new car or fancy clothes"...
If you are not aware of the amount of people working for, say..Walmart who get Food Stamps, well, I'm not going to try and educate you.
Must be nice living in the bubble you do..Maybe instead of being judgey, be thankful you aren't having to deal with such situations...

It's really not "our" land at all. "We" stole it from the Native Americans and the Mexicans. -- OK OK I still want THE WALL - just saying there's no use to steal the land and then not protect it.

As long as folks get to play the victim card,
for events that happened at least a hundred
years prior to their birth...

I guess it just sucks to be some people.

People need to have a set of values and personal characteristics to have some level of success in life. When they fail to learn those personal traits, they have difficulty with obstacles and struggle with life. Those basic human traits should have been learned from their parents but when the parents do not possess those traits it is almost impossible for a child to learn them. Those include such things as being honest, having a good work ethic, personal responsibility, and a positive attitude. You are right that we need to find some solutions to the problems of society but blaming it on society and the social environment is not helpful or lead to any solutions.

for your information about what it costs to live:
http://livingwage.mit.edu/

http://www.epi.org/resources/budget/

It should be noted that these wages do not provide any adjustment for government benefits which should be factored into expenses such as food, housing, and medical care.

if it doesnt start with society, then where does it start?

I have to disagree, again, that the keys to earning a living are about being honest and having a good work ethic, personal responsibility and positive attitude. Sure they help, but they are far less of a guarantee than region, mobility and financial status, which brings with it networks, references, people interested in providing opportunity. The country is full of honest hard working people struggling to feed their families. IT also has those with more money than they could ever need to eat, whose fortune comes from how DISHONEST and unethical they can be for the love of money.