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| Topic: The case on Scientology | |
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organizations and religions dont do 'evil' things, people do. and power can corrupt PEOPLE anywhere they get it, it doesnt, to me, condemn an entire demographic or organization or religion of individuals, to find that some in power have become corrupt ... like the old saying goes,power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutely! to try to claim that an organization that does evil things isn't evil just because a few people who don't hold any position of power in it don't do evil things is illogical!! by that logic,the NAZIS weren't evil because oskar schindler saved a few jews from being executed. when an institution like a religion is more concerned with controlling people,and staying in power at all costs,and does evil things in secret while it hides behind its position of power,that DOES make it evil,whether you want to admit it,or not. if it were any organization besides institutionalized religion,we would criminally prosecute them under the RICO act for the things that they have done,but institutionalized religion puts itself ABOVE the law,and THAT is just one of the MANY reasons that institutionalized religion is evil. NAZIS are not quite the same, first, because the 'evil' part is defined by the actions of the individuals second, because, as a group/organization, the ACTUAL promotion of evil was a part of being recognized in the group so to say NAZIS were evil, is to generalize how the INDIVIDUALS were encouraged to and MOSTLY behaved. this is not the true with religion, evil people are the outlier and not the basic tenet, philosophy, or encouragement for which the groups are created or run ... to summarize, an institution can PROMOTE and ENCOURAGE people to do evil, and should be held accoutnable if that is the case BUT an institution is not accountable if there happen to be amongst them people that choose to exploit or promote/encourage their own agendas ,,, in which case only those individuals should be accountable sorry,but I disagree with that! when the people who are IN CHARGE of the organization use their position of power to do evil,and use their organization to knowingly assist the people doing the evil,and knowingly shield them from the consequences for their actions,and then knowingly allow them to continue to do the evil things that they are doing,then that organization IS evil,no matter what the people who are not in charge of that organization think or do. its not like it is a few minor members of the organization,such as just someone who happens to attend a service,it is the people who are IN CHARGE who are committing these crimes,so your argument is invalid. there is an overabundance of proof and public knowledge that the catholic church knowingly looks the other way when it comes to the pedophiles they have placed in a position of power,and then uses their organization to protect those pedophile priests from the consequences of their heinous crimes.... but,yet..all of those people who are members of that organization who might not be evil themselves do not do anything to change what their organization is doing are just as evil as the ones who are in charge of the organization,because they are enabling it to continue doing the things they do,and are publically ,and financialy supporting them. because,if you do not openly oppose evil,then you are silently condoning it!! if those people are indeed 'not evil',they they would withdraw themselves from participating in,and supporting that organization. but,they don't,because they look the other way because supporting that organization is more important to them than trying to stop the horrors that that organization is committing. supporting something that is inherently evil is just as bad as doing he evil yourself. you posted "when the people who are IN CHARGE o" the operative word here is the PEOPLE ... not the organization. once again. the banking instutution has people in power who abuse that power (it calls for people to be in 'charge' to exploit that power, which I have already stated awareness that power corrupts PEOPLE) That does not make the 'institution' evil. It is like saying a chair is evil. it cannot be. a chair is a tHING. there is not 'evil' without humans, because it takes humans making their own INDIVIDUAL choice to do evil for evil to exist. as far as turning an eye. I also disagree. It is totally possible to want consequences for INDIVIDUALS doing wrong, and to want to continue to be included in all that is RIGHT within that same organization those individuals are involved with. there is a difference between supporting what an INDIVIDUAL has done, which deserves consequence for that INDIVIDUAL and supporting an organization, which is not responsible for the choices of the individuals who are a part of it UNLESS there is explicit instruction or guidelines requiring that/those actions well,i believe that an organization or an institution is made up of the people who are in it,as without them,the institution could not exist,so we will just have to agree to disagree. I did not mean for this to turn into a discussion of the evils that religion is responsible for... only how ridiculous the idea of religion is,and how even more ridiculous some of them are,such as scientology,klingon,and jedi. so, 
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organizations and religions dont do 'evil' things, people do. and power can corrupt PEOPLE anywhere they get it, it doesnt, to me, condemn an entire demographic or organization or religion of individuals, to find that some in power have become corrupt ... like the old saying goes,power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutely! to try to claim that an organization that does evil things isn't evil just because a few people who don't hold any position of power in it don't do evil things is illogical!! by that logic,the NAZIS weren't evil because oskar schindler saved a few jews from being executed. when an institution like a religion is more concerned with controlling people,and staying in power at all costs,and does evil things in secret while it hides behind its position of power,that DOES make it evil,whether you want to admit it,or not. if it were any organization besides institutionalized religion,we would criminally prosecute them under the RICO act for the things that they have done,but institutionalized religion puts itself ABOVE the law,and THAT is just one of the MANY reasons that institutionalized religion is evil. NAZIS are not quite the same, first, because the 'evil' part is defined by the actions of the individuals second, because, as a group/organization, the ACTUAL promotion of evil was a part of being recognized in the group so to say NAZIS were evil, is to generalize how the INDIVIDUALS were encouraged to and MOSTLY behaved. this is not the true with religion, evil people are the outlier and not the basic tenet, philosophy, or encouragement for which the groups are created or run ... to summarize, an institution can PROMOTE and ENCOURAGE people to do evil, and should be held accoutnable if that is the case BUT an institution is not accountable if there happen to be amongst them people that choose to exploit or promote/encourage their own agendas ,,, in which case only those individuals should be accountable sorry,but I disagree with that! when the people who are IN CHARGE of the organization use their position of power to do evil,and use their organization to knowingly assist the people doing the evil,and knowingly shield them from the consequences for their actions,and then knowingly allow them to continue to do the evil things that they are doing,then that organization IS evil,no matter what the people who are not in charge of that organization think or do. its not like it is a few minor members of the organization,such as just someone who happens to attend a service,it is the people who are IN CHARGE who are committing these crimes,so your argument is invalid. there is an overabundance of proof and public knowledge that the catholic church knowingly looks the other way when it comes to the pedophiles they have placed in a position of power,and then uses their organization to protect those pedophile priests from the consequences of their heinous crimes.... but,yet..all of those people who are members of that organization who might not be evil themselves do not do anything to change what their organization is doing are just as evil as the ones who are in charge of the organization,because they are enabling it to continue doing the things they do,and are publically ,and financialy supporting them. because,if you do not openly oppose evil,then you are silently condoning it!! if those people are indeed 'not evil',they they would withdraw themselves from participating in,and supporting that organization. but,they don't,because they look the other way because supporting that organization is more important to them than trying to stop the horrors that that organization is committing. supporting something that is inherently evil is just as bad as doing he evil yourself. you posted "when the people who are IN CHARGE o" the operative word here is the PEOPLE ... not the organization. once again. the banking instutution has people in power who abuse that power (it calls for people to be in 'charge' to exploit that power, which I have already stated awareness that power corrupts PEOPLE) That does not make the 'institution' evil. It is like saying a chair is evil. it cannot be. a chair is a tHING. there is not 'evil' without humans, because it takes humans making their own INDIVIDUAL choice to do evil for evil to exist. as far as turning an eye. I also disagree. It is totally possible to want consequences for INDIVIDUALS doing wrong, and to want to continue to be included in all that is RIGHT within that same organization those individuals are involved with. there is a difference between supporting what an INDIVIDUAL has done, which deserves consequence for that INDIVIDUAL and supporting an organization, which is not responsible for the choices of the individuals who are a part of it UNLESS there is explicit instruction or guidelines requiring that/those actions well,i believe that an organization or an institution is made up of the people who are in it,as without them,the institution could not exist,so we will just have to agree to disagree. I did not mean for this to turn into a discussion of the evils that religion is responsible for... only how ridiculous the idea of religion is,and how even more ridiculous some of them are,such as scientology,klingon,and jedi. so, i believe that an organization or an institution is made up of the people who are in it,as without them,the institution could not exist I tend to agree with you. Even society as a whole is always made up of the individuals within that society. Religion, doesn't matter which one, is strong because the participants reinforce each other. Sometimes in direct opposition to their own personal beliefs. They give a sort of pseudo-strength to the organization because of their own personal fears of rejection from the group. In this sense, the organization 'appears' stronger than it actually is. If each person were to actually embrace their true feelings, some of these 'religions' would crumble. When ya think about it, where is the religion gaining its power except from the individual's own fear of rejection? How many, if left up to them personally, would embrace the doctrine as written? I think this is why so many individuals are abandoning their religions. People are gaining their own sense of self-importance as the are becoming increasingly self-aware. In religions, there is a certain amount of self-abandonment required for it to work. |
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organizations and religions dont do 'evil' things, people do. and power can corrupt PEOPLE anywhere they get it, it doesnt, to me, condemn an entire demographic or organization or religion of individuals, to find that some in power have become corrupt ... like the old saying goes,power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutely! to try to claim that an organization that does evil things isn't evil just because a few people who don't hold any position of power in it don't do evil things is illogical!! by that logic,the NAZIS weren't evil because oskar schindler saved a few jews from being executed. when an institution like a religion is more concerned with controlling people,and staying in power at all costs,and does evil things in secret while it hides behind its position of power,that DOES make it evil,whether you want to admit it,or not. if it were any organization besides institutionalized religion,we would criminally prosecute them under the RICO act for the things that they have done,but institutionalized religion puts itself ABOVE the law,and THAT is just one of the MANY reasons that institutionalized religion is evil. NAZIS are not quite the same, first, because the 'evil' part is defined by the actions of the individuals second, because, as a group/organization, the ACTUAL promotion of evil was a part of being recognized in the group so to say NAZIS were evil, is to generalize how the INDIVIDUALS were encouraged to and MOSTLY behaved. this is not the true with religion, evil people are the outlier and not the basic tenet, philosophy, or encouragement for which the groups are created or run ... to summarize, an institution can PROMOTE and ENCOURAGE people to do evil, and should be held accoutnable if that is the case BUT an institution is not accountable if there happen to be amongst them people that choose to exploit or promote/encourage their own agendas ,,, in which case only those individuals should be accountable sorry,but I disagree with that! when the people who are IN CHARGE of the organization use their position of power to do evil,and use their organization to knowingly assist the people doing the evil,and knowingly shield them from the consequences for their actions,and then knowingly allow them to continue to do the evil things that they are doing,then that organization IS evil,no matter what the people who are not in charge of that organization think or do. its not like it is a few minor members of the organization,such as just someone who happens to attend a service,it is the people who are IN CHARGE who are committing these crimes,so your argument is invalid. there is an overabundance of proof and public knowledge that the catholic church knowingly looks the other way when it comes to the pedophiles they have placed in a position of power,and then uses their organization to protect those pedophile priests from the consequences of their heinous crimes.... but,yet..all of those people who are members of that organization who might not be evil themselves do not do anything to change what their organization is doing are just as evil as the ones who are in charge of the organization,because they are enabling it to continue doing the things they do,and are publically ,and financialy supporting them. because,if you do not openly oppose evil,then you are silently condoning it!! if those people are indeed 'not evil',they they would withdraw themselves from participating in,and supporting that organization. but,they don't,because they look the other way because supporting that organization is more important to them than trying to stop the horrors that that organization is committing. supporting something that is inherently evil is just as bad as doing he evil yourself. you posted "when the people who are IN CHARGE o" the operative word here is the PEOPLE ... not the organization. once again. the banking instutution has people in power who abuse that power (it calls for people to be in 'charge' to exploit that power, which I have already stated awareness that power corrupts PEOPLE) That does not make the 'institution' evil. It is like saying a chair is evil. it cannot be. a chair is a tHING. there is not 'evil' without humans, because it takes humans making their own INDIVIDUAL choice to do evil for evil to exist. as far as turning an eye. I also disagree. It is totally possible to want consequences for INDIVIDUALS doing wrong, and to want to continue to be included in all that is RIGHT within that same organization those individuals are involved with. there is a difference between supporting what an INDIVIDUAL has done, which deserves consequence for that INDIVIDUAL and supporting an organization, which is not responsible for the choices of the individuals who are a part of it UNLESS there is explicit instruction or guidelines requiring that/those actions well,i believe that an organization or an institution is made up of the people who are in it,as without them,the institution could not exist,so we will just have to agree to disagree. I did not mean for this to turn into a discussion of the evils that religion is responsible for... only how ridiculous the idea of religion is,and how even more ridiculous some of them are,such as scientology,klingon,and jedi. so, i believe that an organization or an institution is made up of the people who are in it,as without them,the institution could not exist I tend to agree with you. Even society as a whole is always made up of the individuals within that society. Religion, doesn't matter which one, is strong because the participants reinforce each other. Sometimes in direct opposition to their own personal beliefs. They give a sort of pseudo-strength to the organization because of their own personal fears of rejection from the group. In this sense, the organization 'appears' stronger than it actually is. If each person were to actually embrace their true feelings, some of these 'religions' would crumble. When ya think about it, where is the religion gaining its power except from the individual's own fear of rejection? How many, if left up to them personally, would embrace the doctrine as written? I think this is why so many individuals are abandoning their religions. People are gaining their own sense of self-importance as the are becoming increasingly self-aware. In religions, there is a certain amount of self-abandonment required for it to work. I believe you could replace the words 'religion' and 'society' with the words 'business' or 'nation' or 'government' or 'military' or 'health system'. anywhere that has millions or billions of INDIVIDUALS interested in having something that is not CHAOTIC, and therefore agreeing to/abiding by a certain structure of expecations/laws/rules .... |
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