Previous 1
Topic: What do you know about chaos theory?
no photo
Thu 08/02/18 03:23 PM

And do you believe in this theory

no photo
Thu 08/02/18 03:26 PM
Well there are several scientific theories but the one I like has to do with coping mechanisms .., Chaos is a catalyst for changebiggrin waving

Tom4Uhere's photo
Thu 08/02/18 04:18 PM
Chaos exists right now because human beings do not know everything about everything.
Basically, chaos means, a lack of pattern.
It could be that everything, everywhere has a pattern at some point, some level.
Once the pattern for everything is known, chaos ceases to exist.

JasonKM's photo
Fri 08/03/18 03:42 PM
Belief has nothing to do with it.
It was a mathematical observation, which coincidentally best describes evolutionary theory in general. Strictly, it functionally solicited the need to use closed models rather than an open system when mapping a macro operation, such as planetary orbits and then combine the models to get a complex system, since if you use a top down approach and overload initial data crunching you just get random predictions. The small error margins of using closed models is better than random figures due to factors entirely too involved to predict.

I think somebody was confusing science with philosophy. Scientific theorem aren't political devotions, they're statements of observation. You may not agree with a point of view, eg. string theory or m-brane theory, but they are always framed to fit existing observations, which are fact and then make predictions about future observations, which is like waiting to open Christmas presents midway through the year.

no photo
Fri 08/03/18 04:26 PM
My chaos theory usually coincided with school being out for the summer.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 08/04/18 09:22 AM






Fractals: A fractal is a never-ending pattern. Fractals are infinitely complex patterns that are self-similar across different scales. They are created by repeating a simple process over and over in an ongoing feedback loop. Driven by recursion, fractals are images of dynamic systems – the pictures of Chaos.

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. ... A very small change in initial conditions had created a significantly different outcome.

Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. ... In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable. This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos.

However, no matter the chaos, if one knows all possible outcomes, patterns are there that allows predictability.
Chaos only exists because we can't predict all possible outcomes.
If we knew everything about everything, at all times, we would completely understand how anything can or can't exist and its nature of possible change.

JasonKM's photo
Sun 08/05/18 03:33 AM
What Brownian motion practically describes through observation is that any medium experiences extreme variation.
Where this becomes important in cosmology is in Hawking effect describing the virtual particle field, which states that absolute entropy intrinsically evolves a black hole universe.

Doesn't really relate to chaos theory directly, which is most correctly stated as complex evolutionary diversity. It does, but it doesn't, it's about latent fields and the fact there is truly no such thing as an empty space even in an empty space. For the potential for something to exist there must be an existence potential latent in the environment. It's like extrapolating quantum physics from classical rules like conservation of energy.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/05/18 09:29 AM

What Brownian motion practically describes through observation is that any medium experiences extreme variation.
Where this becomes important in cosmology is in Hawking effect describing the virtual particle field, which states that absolute entropy intrinsically evolves a black hole universe.

Doesn't really relate to chaos theory directly, which is most correctly stated as complex evolutionary diversity. It does, but it doesn't, it's about latent fields and the fact there is truly no such thing as an empty space even in an empty space. For the potential for something to exist there must be an existence potential latent in the environment. It's like extrapolating quantum physics from classical rules like conservation of energy.

That is interesting.
I don't really study or read about Chaos Theory specifically. When I think of chaos I think of the unpredictable events from random interactions.
With gravitation waves being recently confirmed I find the black hole Universe more likely. Random interactions less likely because there is a pattern to gravitational effects. I wonder if gravitational waves persist at quantum?
I also see the allure of vacuum energy (zero point energy) in chaos but as chaotic as they may seem, I suspect there is a pattern governing the effect. I even sense that entropy has a pattern.
Negentropy is reverse entropy. It means things becoming more in order. By 'order' is meant organization, structure and function: the opposite of randomness or chaos. ~ simple wiki

During the formation of a star system like our solar system it appears chaotic as negentropy initiates. The material that coalesces into planets, moons, asteroids and comets is moving every which way. As time passes, the chaotic events slowly become orderly. Gravitational waves cause stabilization to occur in that system.
I imagine that even during the period of high orbital bombardment a pattern exists in the chaos. We just can't see (measure) it because we don't live long enough to study multiple systems during their entire negentrophic period. We only see snapshots and it appears chaotic.
Like I said earlier, chaos exists because we don't know everything about everything, everywhere. If we did, we might see patterns in everything, everywhere, everywhen and chaos would not exist.
This idea is driven home by the Mandelbrot set, the Julia set and all the fractal calculations inspired by the Hausdorff dimension.
Until 1920, nature was thought to have no pattern, was chaotic. Now, fractals describe a pattern to nature. While we don't understand it completely yet, there is less chaos and more pattern to natural order in mathematics.
Is the Universe governed by Brownian motion?
Do fractals predict a patterned Universe?
We don't know because we can't calculate it yet.
Far too many variables, far too many levels of interaction.
However, if we could calculate the exact pattern of everything in the Universe, chaos would cease to exist.

no photo
Thu 08/09/18 01:34 PM

Well there are several scientific theories but the one I like has to do with coping mechanisms .., Chaos is a catalyst for changebiggrin waving

That's your opinion, and you have the freedom to believe.

no photo
Thu 08/09/18 01:36 PM

Chaos exists right now because human beings do not know everything about everything.
Basically, chaos means, a lack of pattern.
It could be that everything, everywhere has a pattern at some point, some level.
Once the pattern for everything is known, chaos ceases to exist.

I don't rule out this idea.

no photo
Thu 08/09/18 01:55 PM

Belief has nothing to do with it.
It was a mathematical observation, which coincidentally best describes evolutionary theory in general. Strictly, it functionally solicited the need to use closed models rather than an open system when mapping a macro operation, such as planetary orbits and then combine the models to get a complex system, since if you use a top down approach and overload initial data crunching you just get random predictions. The small error margins of using closed models is better than random figures due to factors entirely too involved to predict.

I think somebody was confusing science with philosophy. Scientific theorem aren't political devotions, they're statements of observation. You may not agree with a point of view, eg. string theory or m-brane theory, but they are always framed to fit existing observations, which are fact and then make predictions about future observations, which is like waiting to open Christmas presents midway through the year.

This may be a meditative philosophical theory, but it is studied in a purely scientific way.

no photo
Thu 08/09/18 03:53 PM
It's a movie starring Wesley Snipes and Jason Statham.

Aroundtheworld37's photo
Thu 08/09/18 07:59 PM

It's a movie starring Wesley Snipes and Jason Statham.

:joy::joy:

BlakeIAM's photo
Thu 08/09/18 08:05 PM
Bottom line, chaos is strictly personal and individual perception.
I will say , that chaos always follows...

Tom4Uhere's photo
Fri 08/10/18 09:53 AM
Bottom line, chaos is strictly personal and individual perception.

Not really. Its a perception but it isn't strictly personal nor individual.
Chaos theory is studied and experimented by multiple people.
Its conditions are documented thru that study and experimentation.
With understanding of the concepts involved, more than one person can perceive chaos the same way.

Chaos is neither good nor evil, it is a condition of ignorance to understanding all the patterns of reality and how they interact with each other.

Bard297's photo
Sat 09/08/18 03:37 PM
Had to study this in college. Great professor. Used the theory for earth science. I'd say it's application is limited however.

no photo
Sat 09/08/18 03:49 PM
Edited by tombraider on Sat 09/08/18 03:54 PM



They are poisoning our skies and water with GEO ENGINEERING using heavy metals of strontium aluminum titanium and barium not to mention with fluoride in our drinking water..Michael Davis an EPA scientist with master degrees in mechanical engineering and chemical engineering was fired from the EPA for trying to sound the alarm..give it a listen on YOUTUBE.."INTERVIEW EPA SCIENTIST SOUNDS THE ALARM ON GEO ENGINEERING CONTAMINATION"..several whistle blowers are being silenced by major corporations...EVERY LIVING THING ON THE PLANET is in danger...how's that CHAOS for ya..tc everyone.. smokin

mightymoe's photo
Sat 09/08/18 06:19 PM

Bottom line, chaos is strictly personal and individual perception.

Not really. Its a perception but it isn't strictly personal nor individual.
Chaos theory is studied and experimented by multiple people.
Its conditions are documented thru that study and experimentation.
With understanding of the concepts involved, more than one person can perceive chaos the same way.

Chaos is neither good nor evil, it is a condition of ignorance to understanding all the patterns of reality and how they interact with each other.
I really don't see it as a perception either...either it has a pattern or doesn't...

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 09/08/18 06:59 PM


Bottom line, chaos is strictly personal and individual perception.

Not really. Its a perception but it isn't strictly personal nor individual.
Chaos theory is studied and experimented by multiple people.
Its conditions are documented thru that study and experimentation.
With understanding of the concepts involved, more than one person can perceive chaos the same way.

Chaos is neither good nor evil, it is a condition of ignorance to understanding all the patterns of reality and how they interact with each other.
I really don't see it as a perception either...either it has a pattern or doesn't...

A single pattern can be perceived by different people in different ways with the same end result. Especially in behavioral studies.
Then, if you think about it, everything anyone knows or suspects is from perception.

In AI sciences, this is important because an AI needs to perceive to learn. Programming only gets ya so far. Perception is chaotic because we don't understand every possible pattern of how people (or AI) perceive. If we did, we could apply that knowledge in teaching according to perception pattern and everything taught would be learned.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 09/08/18 08:15 PM



Bottom line, chaos is strictly personal and individual perception.

Not really. Its a perception but it isn't strictly personal nor individual.
Chaos theory is studied and experimented by multiple people.
Its conditions are documented thru that study and experimentation.
With understanding of the concepts involved, more than one person can perceive chaos the same way.

Chaos is neither good nor evil, it is a condition of ignorance to understanding all the patterns of reality and how they interact with each other.
I really don't see it as a perception either...either it has a pattern or doesn't...

A single pattern can be perceived by different people in different ways with the same end result. Especially in behavioral studies.
Then, if you think about it, everything anyone knows or suspects is from perception.

In AI sciences, this is important because an AI needs to perceive to learn. Programming only gets ya so far. Perception is chaotic because we don't understand every possible pattern of how people (or AI) perceive. If we did, we could apply that knowledge in teaching according to perception pattern and everything taught would be learned.
I don't know much about AI learning, personally I can't see how it can get past it's programming...all life seems to "want" to learn, to survive, to eat,sex, it's all part of nature's influence... To be a true AI, they need to find a way to make the AI think the same way .. otherwise, it just runs on pure logic, which isn't good without the emotions, the drive to be better, the want to fit in with others...I like the idea of trying to teach it perception, but without the rest, it will still only run on pure ligic...so everything it percieves would a logic based code... Pure logic without emotions and rationality can lead to some really bad things...

Previous 1