This post was under Tom's post , but was meant for Godsfriend post.

Just wanted to clear that up. I think that it was obvious , but just in case .

Thanx

That's not what the Trinity is about. The Trinity is all about "One God." Not multiiple Gods, not three Gods. Three persons in ONE God.

NOTE:

Just foolin' around with one of my old posts practicing the coding Tom so generously clued me onto.—IM

Who cares?

Blake, How can the Spirit of Truth guide you into all truth, as Jesus said, with your absolute assertions as you have given them above? And you didn't get those absolute assertions from The Spirit of Truth, you got them from indoctrination by mere men into the religious theories and doctrines of mere men. Someone, some human or humans, "sold" you on the idea of biblical inerrancy and you bought it. Isn't that right? Who was it, do you remember?

And then you had an experience, like Meatloaf sings about in "Paradise by the Dashboard lights" right?

"I couldn't take it any longer
Lord I was crazed
And when the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave"

An attitude of "I will only accept new truth from the Spirit of Truth if that new truth agrees with what I already believe," will effectively block The Spirit of Truth from operating in your mind.

"...The Spirit of truth, ...will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13)

But not if a person won't allow it. The Spirit of Truth respects our freewill to believe as we want to believe. The Spirit of Truth, on it's own, will not change one's wrong beliefs. It needs our co-operation.

The NT manuscripts I use are older than the Vulgate.



I am not sure how anyone can determine that since no one can determine when God spoke to Adam.



Christianity is based on Judaism. But who cares which ones are older?

Perhaps there is another explanation as to why some of these religions repeat the same info. Maybe they shared some of this stuff with each other because they all knew it was true.

Let's see. Who knows what happened thousands of years ago? Were any of us there?

I am not sure how anyone can determine that since no one can determine when God spoke to Adam.
Er, Ten Commandments, Moses, on the mountain, remember? Not Adam

Perhaps there is another explanation as to why some of these religions repeat the same info. Maybe they shared some of this stuff with each other because they all knew it was true.
Well, give credit where credit is due. Quoting verses out of context and written hundreds of years apart, edited and rewritten by who knows, and applying them to current time does not do justice to the text. Check my sources. You will see the carbon-dated steles.

Were you to cite texts from other religions and cultures pointing out common universal Truths, we'd be a lot further along the road toward common understanding instead of this mindless bickering about Christianity being the one and only truth.—IM

AGAIN: re-edited to correct url links. Sorry, if they didn't work for you the first time. I'm a work in progress.—IM

We ALL are a work in progress (hopefully, the progress part).

Actually, we do know.

93:2.1 It was 1,973 years before the birth of Jesus that Machiventa [MELCHIZEDEK] was bestowed upon the human races of Urantia [EARTH]. His coming was unspectacular; his materialization was not witnessed by human eyes. He was first observed by mortal man on that eventful day when he entered the tent of Amdon, a Chaldean herder of Sumerian extraction. And the proclamation of his mission was embodied in the simple statement which he made to this shepherd, “I am Melchizedek, priest of El Elyon, the Most High, the one and only God.”

93:2.2 When the herder had recovered from his astonishment, and after he had plied this stranger with many questions, he asked Melchizedek to sup with him, and this was the first time in his long universe career that Machiventa had partaken of material food, the nourishment which was to sustain him throughout his ninety-four years of life as a material being.

93:2.3 And that night, as they talked out under the stars, Melchizedek began his mission of the revelation of the truth of the reality of God when, with a sweep of his arm, he turned to Amdon, saying, “El Elyon, the Most High, is the divine creator of the stars of the firmament and even of this very earth on which we live, and he is also the supreme God of heaven.”

93:2.4 Within a few years Melchizedek had gathered around himself a group of pupils, disciples, and believers who formed the nucleus of the later community of Salem. He was soon known throughout Palestine as the priest of El Elyon, the Most High, and as the sage of Salem. Among some of the surrounding tribes he was often referred to as the sheik, or king, of Salem. Salem was the site which after the disappearance of Melchizedek became the city of Jebus, subsequently being called Jerusalem.

93:2.5 In personal appearance, Melchizedek resembled the then blended Nodite and Sumerian peoples, being almost six feet in height and possessing a commanding presence. He spoke Chaldean and a half dozen other languages. He dressed much as did the Canaanite priests except that on his breast he wore an emblem of three concentric circles, the Satania symbol of the Paradise Trinity. In the course of his ministry this insignia of three concentric circles became regarded as so sacred by his followers that they never dared to use it, and it was soon forgotten with the passing of a few generations.

93:2.6 Though Machiventa lived after the manner of the men of the realm, he never married, nor could he have left offspring on earth. His physical body, while resembling that of the human male, was in reality on the order of those especially constructed bodies used by the one hundred materialized members of Prince Caligastia’s [THE DEVIL] staff except that it did not carry the life plasm of any human race. Nor was there available on Urantia the tree of life. Had Machiventa remained for any long period on earth, his physical mechanism would have gradually deteriorated; as it was, he terminated his bestowal mission in ninety-four years long before his material body had begun to disintegrate. -The Urantia Book

ReserveCorp 2:17 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Urantia_Book

For those of us not familiar with the book.—IM

Thank you. My bad.

I found this part interesting:

The book describes that at the center of the cosmos is the stationary Isle of Paradise—the dwelling place of God—with Paradise being surrounded by "Havona," an eternal universe containing a billion perfect worlds, around which seven incomplete and evolutionary "superuniverses" circle.[71][72]

The word "universe" in the book is used to denote a number of different scales of organization. A "superuniverse" is roughly the size of a galaxy or group of galaxies, and the seven superuniverses along with Paradise-Havona are together designated as the "grand universe." A "local universe" is a portion of a superuniverse, with 100,000 local universes being in each superuniverse.[71] Beyond the seven superuniverses, uninhabited "outer space levels" are described. The term "master universe" refers to what in modern usage would be the total universe—all existing matter and space taken as a whole.

Urantia is said to be located in a remote local universe named "Nebadon," which itself is part of superuniverse number seven, "Orvonton." The physical size of a local universe is not directly stated, but each is said to have up to 10 million inhabited worlds.[71]

Of course, when the book was written (1925-50?), not much work had been done on Black Holes, Hawking's faves. It is today postulated that at the center of every galaxy exists a black hole. Furthermore, at the center of the universe (cosmos) (if such a coordinate can be found) exists a giant black hole, capable of swallowing up entire galaxies.
BTW, Hawking laid out a hypothesis in A Brief History of Time wherein the universe expands, evidenced by the Doppler Effect (which surmises that stars and galaxies are moving away from each other at increasing rates of speed), UNTIL it reaches a point where, like a rubber band, or accordion, the entire system rebounds and moves back upon itself until we have another singularity which leads to another Big Bang.
I point this out to reflect on the idea of an eternal universe.

I also found this interesting:

Jesus is considered the human incarnation of "Michael of Nebadon," one of more than 700,000 "Paradise Sons" of God, or "Creator Sons."

In that the book was channeled to Sadler (maybe Kellog) by 'celestial beings' I appreciate that the celestial perspective requires more manpower for more universes.

Which leads me to a question, ReserveCorp: Was/were Sadler/Kellog et al(the other folks in the original committee), prophets, in your opinion?—IM

I take it that the material in italics is not from the Wikipedia site.

OK. We don't believe the book was channeled. It's a bit of a read but here's a good account of how the book came about:

http://www.609g.biz.ht/index.html

No, I don't think anyone, any Urantia Book believers, think that Sadler or Kellogg or any of the "Contact Commission" were prophets at all. Good question, though. They seem to have been a cog in a celestial program-attempt to materialize The Urantia Papers into the human evolutionary stream, I guess that's how I'd put it. Here's what they had to say about the book, some excerpts:

Dr. Sadler: "The [Urantia] Papers were published just as we received them." "The contact commissioners had no editorial authority." "Our job was limited to spelling, capitalization, and punctuation." Emma Christensen, contact commissioner wrote, "The authors are all listed in the book itself..." "I can categorically assure you that no humans decided the content of the Urantia Book. The Book is as the revelators gave it to us." "The Urantia Book was not written by the Urantia Foundation. It is a revelation given to this world by superhuman personalities." "The Urantia Book was published precisely as it was given to the people of this planet. Not a word has been added or deleted." "No human scholars edited the book." Thomas Kendall, Foundation trustee wrote, "The Urantia Book is arranged and assembled exactly as revealed." "No human ever edited this material."

And regarding the expansion of the universe, the book says it expands and contracts, in a sort of "space respiration." I think it's says it's a billion years expanding and then a billion contracting. I think it says we're in the expansion phase now. Might be like the Hindu theory, I'm not sure. But I would say it describes a sine-wave, like many other things in nature, the seasons on earth, and so on.

it amazes me that higher intelligence needed humans to punctuate, spell, and cap for them.

it amazes me even more humans buy this explanation and accept it as being sane!!

The Book is as the revelators gave it to us.

How? What was the mechanism? Did physical pages of data just appear out of thin air? I ask, because since this is a modern-day example of celestial beings interjecting information into our collective mind, it would be illuminating to understand how this works. Remember, Joseph Smith found plates, Moses claimed the Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God, Ellen G. White went into a trance; mediums speak the communications of spirits, many have had revelations.
Also, I take it, that the billion years of inhaling and the billion years exhaling is a symbolic number, much like 'Creation took seven days.' I mention it because the generally held view held by physicists today is that the last Big Bang happened approx. 14.3 billion years ago and we are still in the expansionary, er, inhaling phase. —IM

They obviously didn't "need" to. God can pretty much do whatever in any way He prefers, whether you like it or not. You're confusing need with did. They did it that way because that's the way they wanted to do it. You want "signs and wonders." Jesus said, "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe." (John 4:48) Jesus is onto humans who need signs and wonders.

That's what the alleged "virgin birth" is all about, signs and wonders for the edification of simple folk. It amazes me that humans buy this explanation and accept it as being sane.

Yes, they could have done it the same way they did with Jesus. Just create Jesus out of thin air fully grown with no need for any human interaction. Right? Oh they DIDN'T do it that magical way? They involved humans and even a woman's womb. Why doesn't it amaze you that the higher intelligences didn't just create Jesus out of thin air without any human involvement? Why do YOU think the "higher intelligences" NEEDED (your word) to do it with human involvement? They want us to have some skin in the game and they don't pander to those who need signs and wonders.

Tell me all your beliefs and I'll tell you which ones "amaze" me.



It amazes me that humans buy the idea that the writings of a three thousand year old tribe of desert Semitic camel jockeys on earth is "the word of God" and accept the premise as being sane.

Don't forget what Thumper said. If you're not going to constructively contribute, you should probably just sit it out. Maybe we can prevent this thread from being locked.

"Thumper, what did your father tell you?"
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all".

I hope to get this answered before iamresurrected gets this thread locked.

I did give a link to an explanation. If you get the time, read that.



Yes, apparently. Exactly. In one case, some 450 pages of tightly handwritten material materialized in Dr. Sadler's locked safe. Or something like that. It's at the link I gave. I'd have to re-read it myself or find the statement. NO ONE ever saw the process, as far as I know.



Yes, of course. Here's the link again. http://www.609g.biz.ht/index.html



Yes, I know. I don't believe the Mormon story.



Yes, I know. Sigh. I don't believe that story either. Why didn't God use Stainless Steel instead of granite? And then the Hebrews lost them.



Yes, I know.



Maybe some do and maybe some don't. Maybe some are con-artists. It's too subjective. I don't know.



Oh no, I don't think so. You can find the Space Respiration paragraph at 11:6.1, that is, Paper 11, Section 6, Paragraph 1, as numbered in the Uversa Press books. Or I can post it here if you like. In Urantia Foundation books it would still be Paper 11, Section 6.



Yes, The Urantia Book also says we are in the expansionary phase. Lucky guess, huh? Was that known to modern science in 1950? (I don't know, just asking.)

The problem above is the words, "the generally held view." That's not science, that's opinions. Don't you think it's the least bit strange that "modern" science can tell us that the alleged big bang happened 14.3 billion years ago, give or take 5 minutes, but they have no idea what makes up 96% of the universe, "dark matter" and "dark energy"? 96% of the universe is HYPOTHETICAL, but somehow they know exactly when the alleged Big Bang happened? I don't think so.

I am enjoying having a civil discussion about this.

I am enjoying having a civil discussion about this.

Me too.

Somehow, since we are logical beings, religion has to complement science and vice versa.

The proposed age of the universe was derived by using the scientific method whereby logical experiments were demonstrated to be true in different studies. That's why we enjoy the world today as we do instead of hewing down trees with a stone axe.

It was also instrumental in discovering the Higg's bosun which accounts for much of that space you're talking about. 'Dark Matter' coming Real Soon Now.

That's not to say a theory cannot be replaced when more knowledge/progress/ experimentation proves otherwise.

Some Belief systems defy logic. Materialization is still a bit too Star Trekky for me. But I think we're close to 'beam me up Scotty'.

Yeah, beyond a billion years, who's countin' eh?—IM