and I will break it down with scripture later. it's bed time for me now

Yes, it is true that Jesus said...

CLV John 10:30 I and the Father, We are one."

But He also said...

CLV John 17:11 And not longer am I in the world, and they are in the world, and I to Thee am coming. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, in which Thou hast given them to Me, that they may be one, according as We are.

CLV John 17:21 that they may all be one, according as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us, that the world should be believing that Thou dost commission Me.

So no one here has explained the "trinity" in light of what Jesus said here.

Guys, you are stepping all over this thread. It is about "hell." or the lack thereof.

Why not start a "trinity" thread?

they found religious nuts are controlled easier by fear, so they kept tweaking the wording of the bible to induce more fear of afterlife to control the masses better... Not a bad thing, but that same idea is still in use today by almost all governments now

Which would only have significance if we lived in ancient times.
In the present, Hell exists for many people.
It doesn't matter where the word comes from, you speak of "Hell", people know what you speak of.

Oh yes. They are masters at that now. Especially the Catholic church.

If there is no Ancient term for "hell," then it has no place in the Bible.

Most English versions have eliminated it.

There is something worse then hell, it is called the lake of fire.

When I was following religion I was of the understanding that "Hell" was 'anything' that was not "with" God.
Meaning unable to be Graced by God's Presence, a denial of God, absense of God.
Heaven was supposed to be in the Presence of God, "With" God in His glory.
To be in the Grace of God.
"Fire" was a dramatical example of the 'misery' of being denied God's presence and love.

That is actually a realistic illustration Tom.

I thought it was called marriage...

"hell" was a very cold place, when it was first conceived. It was thought to be the furthest away from God. Demons and devils were painted as blue, not red.

Like "trinity" the idea evolved.

One of the biggest differences between men's doctrines and God's Word. God reveals. His ideas don't evolve.

Was that a quote from Dusk til Dawn?

there is no "word of God", its all what man interprets it to be... Mans thoughts, mans thinking... In every religion

imo, there is no heaven or hell, or a God for that matter...it's all man made up stories to help people define right and wrong...

That's fine...

CLV Pr 16:25 There is a way that seems upright before a man, Yet its end becomes the ways of death.

But I am still not clear on how you know there is no "Word of God" or that the Bible is not meant to be understood.

who physically wrote EVERY bible? Was it a God or a man? I can write something down and say this is directly from a god...it doesn't make it anymore true than it did 2000 years ago... Since the bible was written by men, they had a reason for doing so, to get rich, for control or power or just to impress their girlfriend... Nobody knows, its here now and people accept it as the truth because that's what they were told...if everyone interpreted the bible The same way, there wouldn't be a need for churches or preachers, nor would there be 37 different factions of christiananity... Islam is the same exact way, that's why they are killing each other in the middle East...

if death is the only way to get to heaven, why does the bible make it out to be a bad thing?

if death is the only way to get to heaven, why does the bible make it out to be a bad thing?


Good question, actually.

There IS another way, but it's only for an elite group of people, those, like Elijah and Enoch (and others who we may never have heard of) who aligned their wills perfectly with God's will while on earth. When that happens, the individual "fuses" with the fragment of God within them (Luke 17:21) and (is "translated" in a spiritual "chariot of fire") by-passes normal mortal death, going directly to "heaven" (the "mansions" that Jesus spoke of (John 14:2))

(2Ki 2:11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5)

Anyway, I'm not real big on the bible but there's the tell-tale accounts of two people who did not die to get to heaven.

Good question, actually.

There IS another way, but it's only for an elite group of people, those, like Elijah and Enoch (and others who we may never have heard of) who aligned their wills perfectly with God's will while on earth. When that happens, the individual "fuses" with the fragment of God within them (Luke 17:21) and (is "translated" in a spiritual "chariot of fire") by-passes normal mortal death, going directly to "heaven" (the "mansions" that Jesus spoke of (John 14:2))

(2Ki 2:11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5)

Anyway, I'm not real big on the bible but there's the tell-tale accounts of two people who did not die to get to heaven.


My post starts here

They didn't die YET.
It is appointed unto man to die once (no exceptions) given in the Bible.

Elijah and Enoch are the two great witnesses in the last days who are killed for proclaiming The Word of God.

Blake's post starts here

They didn't die YET.
It is appointed unto man to die once (no exceptions) given in the Bible.

Elijah and Enoch are the two great witnesses in the last days who are killed for proclaiming The Word of God.



I didn't say they died. I said what the bible says, that they were "translated" directly to the "mansions" by-passing normal mortal death. They are not on earth anymore. And no, they are not the two witnesses. Your sect of Christianity may say that the two witnesses are Elijah and Enoch, but the fact is that there is no universal Christian view on it and in fact, no one knows who they are, or even if they are.

I have never claimed the Bible was written by God or every word of it was from God. The Scriptures tells us...

CLV 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be equipped, °fitted~ out for every good act.

Surely you don't think that is a bad thing?



Actually, death is not the way we get to heaven. Jesus became immortal and just ascended, with His body.

CLV John 3:13 And not one has ascended into heaven except He Who descends out of heaven, the Son of Mankind Who is in heaven.

This may come as a shock to those who expect to go to heaven.