Ok Ghost I will give my opinions and try to back up some things with
facts, but I am by far no expert, just a simple lil
solitary/ecclectic/pagan/wiccan gurl.

As you well know Christianity "stole" alot of our "things' basically in
an attempt to "convert" all the lowly pagans in the ancient times.

For me, I know how hard it is to live by the creed, "An Harm Ye None". I
know I harm myself daily in many ways, I smoke, I drink, I even partake
in the pleasures of ganja periodically. I harm myself mentally as
well.It's not absolute law though because human kind simply canno attain
"perfection", if we did then we wouldn't be human kind then , would we?
We would be Goddess/God lik and well to me that would be pretty boring.
Some Wiccans choose to live "Amish" like, but think about it for a sec,
even the Amish harm things, you walk a step in any direction and you are
most likely squishing a bug, and most modern pagans/wiccans don't liv in
this manner. We take the cred to mean this, do not intentionally harm
anyone, like don't just go kill someone, don't go beating on your kids,
don't go casting spells and making "potions" to intentionally hurt some
one. Is this making any sense?? Because sometimes my thoughts skip
around and ramble on.I'll be back in a bit to answer the right/fight to
worship, mkay?

Hi poet

Yes, that is true that Christianity has borrowed a lot from the early
Pagans to accommodate their lifestyle, much like the Santa Maria. Haiti
Voodoo, who adopted the Catholic faith by force of course.

Let me ask you this Poet.

Does your religion give you some kind of examples of how to live a
peaceful life in all situations? Such as Ok it's well known that we all
can't live by the divine inspiration all the time. Well, besides the
Harm none creed what other words do you live by?

I think as far as what happens to you after the final stage, according
to the site you provided, in your incarnation. The Hindus seem to
believe that you enter a state of God like or maybe Nirvana, A State of
transcendent happiness( What ever that means) or calmness in all
situation. Does that mean the same to you in your faith? So someday
you'll not harm yourself in your other incarnation. Or is the harm none
perpetual as life is. Meaning. After your death. You return as a another
person, Male perhaps, but you could still windup doing unbecoming a
person who is seeking Nirvana. Think about it. You die, go to the
Summerland,decide to give it another wing at life, comeback as a new
born, with fucked up parents who are on drugs,or what ever. Do you
really think that somehow you will overcome this overwhelming
degradation of a new life were there are no chance of hopefulness and
inspiration to lead a better life?

hope these web sites help. all bible based,,,,



http://www.myspace.com/thesesevendeadlysins

http://www.myspace.com/signsandthetimes

http://myspace.com/godssalvation

To Drew

I have watched a small part of what you published here. Sorry I only
have dialup and is too slow for all of it to load but saw part of it.

Typical. People who are clinically dead who have seen certain images.
Usually from notions of an afterlife though media and indoctrination by
religious groups. They have studied this by the way. Oh and of course
this will be scoff at too no doubt. But here it is for those who care.

Death's White Light: Is THIS the Cause?

The stories give us chills. A man suffers a near fatal heart attack.
After he is resuscitated, he tells of walking into a blindingly bright
white light as he is suffused with feelings of calm and joy.
A woman has surgery and her heart stops beating on the table. Within
minutes, the surgeons bring her back and she later says she detached
from her body and floated above the operating room watching the entire
procedure.
What causes this? Religious people say near-death experiences are
evidence of life after death. Neurologists insist it is far too complex
for scientific study.
Now researchers from the University of Kentucky in Lexington think they
may have figured out a biological origin. Healthy people who regularly
blur the line between sleep and wakefulness--that is, when the dream
state spills over into waking, a phenomenon called REM intrusion--are
more likely to experience extraordinary sensations when they are close
to death or believe they are dying, reports Reuters.
The Kentucky team found that adults who had near-death experiences were
also far more likely to have a history of REM intrusion, which can
include a feeling of being paralyzed when they first wake up or having
visual or auditory hallucinations as they drift off to sleep or awaken,
Reuters reports. Of the 55 volunteers in this study, all of whom had a
near-death experience, 60 percent had also experienced REM intrusion at
some point in their lives, compared with 24 percent of the control group
of 55 adults who hadn't had a near-death experience.
Neurologist Kevin R. Nelson says this suggests the brain's arousal
system predisposes some of us to both phenomena--REM intrusion and
near-death experience. He explained to Reuters that many features of REM
intrusions parallel those of near-death experiences, including the
visual centers of the brain being highly active while the body is
temporarily paralyzed. Nelson says it is possible that a REM intrusion
could give visions of light along with the feeling of "being dead."
However, Nelson says REM intrusion is only part of the explanation for
near-death experiences and insists this finding shouldn't in any way
detract from the meaning people have found in such experiences. Calling
his work "spiritually neutral," Nelson says his research only examines
how the brain contributes to a near-death experience and not why it
occurs. "The 'why' can't be addressed by scientific inquiry," he told
Reuters.
The study findings were published in the journal Neurology.

So much of what we see during the death process whether a white light or
not is based upon our notion of what we are expected to see. Sort of an
implant in our psyche.
But of course you will dismiss this. It's expected. Just as we dismiss
your feeble attempt to fill our notion of a hell that is fairy tales. Oh
I will die and I guess I will come back and tell you how right you are.
NOTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Ghostrecon

You can discuss and analyze this to death, but until we die there isn't
one of us more knowledgeable than the other as to what is right or
wrong. I feel you go with what is right in your heart and soul and try
to be the best person you can be, and really, just hope you got it
right. I think as long as we are respectfully following what we know and
feel, it is all good.

ok ..2 points about that..1st, my ex father in law had died on the O.R.
table amd was brought back. He is not a devout Christian nor does he go
to church and yet he saw the bright light and ppl from his past telling
him it's not his time yet. Could be a REM intrusion but the "dream" or
vision was not based on his belief system.
2nd: Many times in my life I have had out of body experiences. All this
is, is the etheral self leaving the physical self. This is usually
caused by near death or an extrememly traumatic experience. It can also
be done willingly. All of my O.B.E's have been while I was conscious and
at peace and/or EXTREMELY focused.

Well, I too have had strange assurances that I found out had very
logical explanation for. for instance. I had what they call sleep
paralysis. Were I was awake, but my body couldn't move. It’s basically
when you wake up before your body does. You’re conscious, but your body
is stuck in the dream state. The body does a nifty thing during dream
sleep: it disables voluntary control of your muscles, making you
paralyzed. Hence sleep paralysis. As long as you know what’s happening,
it’s actually not scary. But I have heard that some people who
experience this for the first time may think they are being invaded by
some deamon.

People use to call mental illness or depression as being posses by a
devil or evil spirit. Now we know better.
Still strange things happen to us that we seem to not have a clear
explanation for. So we automatically assume there is some supernatural
reason for it. But someday they might find out what really happens to
you when you die.
Think about this, during life threatening situations the brain produces
an avoidance response similar to a hallucination when endorphins flood
the brain similar to when LSD is introduced into the body.

Near-Death Experiences: In or out of the body?

SUSAN BLACKMORE

Published in Skeptical Inquirer 1991, 16, 34-45



What is it like to die? Although most of us fear death to a greater or
lesser extent, there are now more and more people who have "come back"
from states close to death and have told stories of usually very
pleasant and even joyful experiences at death’s door.

For many experiencers, their adventures seem unquestionably to provide
evidence for life after death, and the profound effects the experience
can have on them is just added confirmation. By contrast, for many
scientists these experiences are just hallucinations produced by the
dying brain and of no more interest than an especially vivid dream.

So which is right? Are near-death experiences (NDEs) the prelude to our
life after death or the very last experience we have before oblivion? I
shall argue that neither is quite right: NDEs provide no evidence for
life after death, and we can best understand them by looking at
neurochemistry, physiology, and psychology; but they are much more
interesting than any dream. They seem completely real and can transform
people’s lives. Any satisfactory theory has to understand that too—and
that leads us to questions about minds, selves, and the nature of
consciousness.


http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/si91nde.html

ok Ghost..let me ask you..do you believe in astral travel? the reason I
ask is cuz OBE's and NDE's are very similar.

NO!!!

I don't believe in any kind of supernatural experience. All that is just
more hocus pocus.

well I've had several OBE's so I'm either a liar or hallucinating?? I
mean the pot here is good..but it ain't THAT good lol

You can think what you want about what happened, but for me I know my
expereience has very logical exlinations for. I my not understand then
all the time . But I know I there is a very viable reason for it.

it's not a case of thinking what I want about what happened. I can
willingly go into a state where I can astral travel. No trauma, no
drugs, just an intense focus. I'll be honest, I didn't believe in it
either, until it happened one day quite unexpectedly. I wasn't sick, or
high, I was concentrating heavily on something and next thing I knew, I
was floating above myself. After that experience I started reading up on
it and found that it's something I can control and do almost at will.
I've also seen ppl manipulate the elements through the use of majik. If
someone had just told me about it I would'a thot they were fulla shit,
but I seen it with my own eyes, more than once!! And there is NO
logical, scientific explanation for that.

Well, It sounds like what they call Lucid dreaming were you can control,
or just the power of intention. You intend for something to happen. You
visualize the conditions at which you need or want. That is merely the
power of a thought and acting on it. You want to find work so you
motivate yourself to do so. Or you feel that saying high is a better
state to be in. so you stay motionless. Sir Isaac Newtons theory of the
law of motion. No mystery about that or no spiritual phenomena.

Reading some of the post and one thing that stands out as an error on
evreyones part (not judging). Evryone is saying religion, this is a man
made method of maintaing control. God has called us into relationship
with Himself. There are to be God's elect who carry the mesage to the
belivers that they might be equipped for the work of the Lord.

There is only one true and living God!! Who are we as His creations to
pass judgement on others. That is reserved for God.

Lucid dreaming lol..now THAT's funny. That's like saying 10 ppl had the
exact same hallucination at the exact same time. I'm not gonna go into
all the details about witnessing someone controlling the elements
because it is too involved to get into here, but there were 10 of us
that ALL witnessed these events at the same time so I guess all 10 of us
had the exact same lucid dream at the exact same time.
As for my out of body experiences, those aren't lucid dreams either.
I've been able to "eavesdrop" on my roommates conversations and then
come back to my physical self and tell them what they were talking
about..nope, no dream there.
Just because we don't understand how something works doesn't make it any
less real..I have NO idea how quantum mechanics works either but that
don't make it any less real.

oh hell life is a lucid dream....

We should all just worship Jello

Some one sent me this and i find ti very instructional:

"I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out
there is."

Doesn't one God "and" Jesus make "two" God's?

nope it makes 2 jello shots