I get what you are saying david but the OP is focusing on people's personal experiences , not their feelings.

If empirical data states that 87 % of people are experiencing something , but I belong to the 13% group of people who didn't experience it , my experience is no less valid than yours because I belong to the smaller group.

And even with so called evidence, I am careful about making a judgment. In the case of empirical data for example , people can selectively quote certain streams of data and ignore other credible streams of data which may help create a more balanced perspective on an issue.

Ofcourse in cases where paper trails or camera footage of guilt can be tracked, that is more helpful in establishing what actually happened , especially when weighed with the events leading up to that evidence, which I think is what you might have been alluding to david

I tried to deal with exactly the conundrum you describe in anther thread by msharmony, about race. I can't find that thread anymore.

Anyway, we have exactly the same trouble happening in the US. And the negative methods being used by people in the area of concerns about police behavior, get repeated now in every issue confronting us.

I disagree that parents should be blamed for this, or saddled with all the responsibility for it. In the era I grew up, my parents were by far, the source of real morality and rationality at almost all times for me; but the rest of the world around me was under the control of people who treated all ideals as though they were nice saying to stitch on to pillows, but nothing more.

As you seem to, I require that everyone take responsibility for their own actions and choices at all times, ESPECIALLY INCLUDING when they are reacting to someone else. But I seem to be in the minority. Most people appear to believe in what is sometimes called "relative morality," because it allows them to excuse themselves and the people they like for anything that happens. while self-righteously demanding that everyone ELSE be held to the most strict reading of the law.

What we actually need, more than anything else, are for our LEADERS to wake up and take a stand for responsibility. But no one who has a voice that can be generally heard, is saying so.

And like the wayward lovers who wont stop cheating on you until you stop letting them get away with it, our leaders aren't going to take such a stand until those who vote them into power demand that they live up to their pretended standards.

I think it has a lot to do with it.. If one communicates in a way that it is not making the one they have issues with feeling as if they are being attacked. Then the results will be much different..

That and all should learn that people do what works for them.. Not saying that there is not a way around situations to make things easier if it is relayed in the right way, people would be amazed how different things could be..

Communication is a big factor in every day life...No one can expect others to think their way or change someone's mind.. People need to realize that each person has their own opinion and no one can change someones mind by attacking them for what they believe. Now if they would actually take the time and point out all the pros and cons then that person might look at it and think humm they may have something there I did not consider... and at least give it some thought.. Who knows even I have, through the years changed my mind what I believed in prior and thought nothing would change my mind but in the long run it did.

There are times that no matter what is said or done will not change what another thinks.. ... Just because someone feels it is right for them it might not work for another.. There comes a time when people need to step back and agree to disagree and move on at times...

Then you have those that no matter what just want to argue with someone.. No matter what you say or do... They just think they need to be right all the time.. They never even consider the facts or reasoning why someone thinks different then they do.. They just have to be right all the time or have the last word..

Most everyone has had parents.
Its not the job of parents to prevent Joey from putting gum in Katie's hair.
It is the job of parents to teach Joey to respect others. All others.
Joey doesn't put gum in her hair because he respects her as a person.

To blame parents for individual acts is just blaming the act. The issue is not the lack of prevention of the act but the acceptance of the act in the mind of the accused. If Joey is never taught to respect others he will put gum in people's hair.

Parenting is not about teaching what is good or bad but teaching the fundamental core concepts of good and bad. Those concepts are demonstrated by the parents and reinforced with verbal acknowledgment. Its the function of parenting.

The problem with accepting others is that we are not always taught that core value during our impressionism years. We are left to find that out many times on our own by trial and error.

Narcissism is taught by the narcissistic. If your parents are self-centered, selfish and egotistic chances are you will be too.
As we age out, others replace the parents as the teachers. Friends, co-workers and social structures influence what you learn. If you are narcissistic and surround yourself with narcissistic people then narcissism becomes normal.

One a pattern or concept is learned it is very difficult to unlearn it but it can be done. I think one of the major problems is that most people don't even know they are like that. They possess no alternative reference in their wisdom. Its not that it is hard to acknowledge others, they never even consider it.

Then there are those that know better and do it anyway because they want to. Those are the most insidious. Some people just thrive on causing problems.

Well said Igor.

But until leaders begin to mosel the right behavior for us to emulate , I think Joe has a point. The value of accountability can be emphasized in the home . and I will add, in school as well

I get your point kristi , and I can see how skillful wording and tone can put someone in a less defensive and aggressive mood, like you suggested, and leave them open to reason :)

And you and Ms H brought up a very valid point.When both parties are more dedicated to winning rather than understanding and identifying common ground, both parties are destined to lose in the long run .

But it takes a big person to walk away from an argument and let the other person believe what they believe.

Very tough to do ...

Sadly, way too many people want to do this:

Yep. Learning to accept others with their differences of opinion is huge, and maybe everyone can be involved in that effor, from parents, to teachers , to our political leaders.

And yes . I agree with you that there are people out there who thrive on causing problems. People like that could care less about understanding or empathising with others

I've done that before david, but my outfit is WAY cuter

Yes, pretty much what I meant by it 'begins' with parents.
No child is born greedy or racist or hateful.
It begins with the examples put before you from a young age and that is mostly parents.

I'll drink to that.

Nice topic by the way Peggy, reminds me of JL, Imagine.

Yep. especially from the todler to pre teen years. That example set by parents is super impactful

All of David's above.

Cheers!

Thanks Joe

and I love that song by the way ! :)

So ya couldnt take the time to quote him, huh Integrity? You had to send me on a wild goose chase looking for David's quotes

Wonderful example of the topic subject but you gave it away with the smilie!

Wasnt it cool how I did that tom ?

About all it takes to debunk the idea that "HOW" little Johnny or Susie is would be to be a parent for a relative short time. Children are inundated with images, sounds, behavior ect. From pretty much birth.

While a lucky few families can Shelter their very young children from contradictory values and behaviors with consistent efforts if you are not going to "edit" virtually everything they are going to be exposed to a variety of views.

Then there is the inate developmental drive/curiosity for humans to experience things that are different.

You want to "make" a kid seek something out try keeping it away from them. It makes it almost irresistible. This includes ideas and value and behavior.

If we hope to influence behavior for the positive I think we have to try to and let people "walk a mile in the others shoes".

And that starts at as young as is age appropriate.

Often what a child sees in the play yard and the school yard has a much greater influence.

And in the case of adult interactions it goes into the work place.