Why don't we just do the world a favor and leave the word on the gutters where it belongs, so no one ever gets villianized over it. That would make things so much easier for everyone, rather than brandishing the word as okay in this usage. Sounds like a trap set up kind of like a speed trap to me.

Hi

Hello

both

as I said,, there is context where whites and blacks use it in non derogatory common form with each other

all due respect its a weak trap


context is all through the English language, that is not a trap, just the way it works

Who cares the word in and of itself are useless

I don't give a rat's butt who says it...I say the same thing. It is a nasty wors and if you say it around me, I will call you on it. It is degrading to a race...plain and simple. No need to put a spin on it. I had this discussion at my watering hole a week ago. A young black guy reminded me that I chewed him out for saying it and an older black man told him it was degrading to blacks and shouldn't be used. I agree. It isn't the same same calling someone a biotch. It is a degrading term for race. Shame on those that use it

Yup yup......if the right thing were done it wouldn't even be a discussion though would it

My black friends, would never even think of degrading anyone with that word, much less if it's directed at them.

So why do some in the black community use it? Are they in some way putting each other down? It's a overt verbal assault, on each other, not some cool salutation IMO.

for those who don't understand and those who really don't even care to try

****** became derogatory because WHITES Used in oppression of blacks

blacks did not oppress blacks or use the word towards that purpose

whites always controlled and dictated the language of blacks, but now they do not , now they and no one else can shame or demand of them what language they use with each other

it takes balls to tell any people or shame any people for their choice of vernacular amongst each other

the word WAS used to degrade blacks, but that doesn't mean blacks have to accept that it can ONLY be used to degrade blacks


,,,common language between people is their business,,


with the exception that in mixed company it never hurts to be considerate


for instance 'like' is a common vernacular that irritates me and most older folks I know,,,so young people around us try not to say that word

but if they say it between each other,, its not really our concern


people can be bilingual, people can speak in many dialects and contexts and vernaculars within their own closed circle


its more of a master complex to try to insist how other should speak WITH EACH OTHER


,,,so as much as the word offends some,, people trying to guilt and shame people about how they speak (NOT TO THEM BUT TO EACH OTHER)


is offensive to me, and to me also reflects a massa complex

'these words are acceptable when you speak to each other, but these words are not'

Bull crap. No one told you how to speak. If whites had ever done anything like that. We quite simply all black would use pronunciation. They wouldn't never have spoken the way they did or do.

I still want to know how black Americans define the N word whenever they use it on each other.

I have No clue how THEY define the word when it's used between them.

Just an observation, they mostly use "My" before the word so I assume somewhere in there there's a level of degrading underhanded possession towards the recipient. My N.... is foul but I would never stand in the way people talk to each other. Upstanding people in the black community should NOT defend this type of vocabulary IMO.

It's a low life way of acknowledging anyones presence. but whatever, go for it, if it empowers you in any way shape or form

more Eurocentric thinking

Africans never said 'ebonics' was a part of their language, that was also some Eurocentric garbage spoon fed to people


if you travel to different parts of the country,, people will speak different dialects REGARDLESS of race, heck, if you travel to different parts of their STATE,,people do the same

in dictionaries they call that 'slang',,,,not the common or 'proper' but the use in certain groups


blacks took a word that was meant to deride and used it how THEY Chose , their own speech between EACH OTHER


why is that so controversial?

seriously?


I mean,I am all about being considerate,, and like I said before, if people are in mixed company(with those who find the word in any context offensive),, it is a show of decency to not use it


but if people are speaking between themselves,, why is it any business of anyone if they choose to say shi*face as their own inner circle way of saying friend? its THEIR conversation they should use what ever language THEY choose,,,,they have the shared history to make that choice

it has many contexts dodo,,,,mostly, in my experience AS A BLACK PERSON,, it is an expression of common history,,


in the positive context,, my ni&&a , it is the same as my dog,,,,its reciprocal,, the speaker is feeling on the same level with the person , a certain loyalty as opposed to the ownership and property it invoked historically when whites said it


in the negative context , I cant stand that ni&&a, the best way to explain it is that ni&&a is not the slam in the sentence,, its almost like a recognition of a common survival story,,,,the words before it are the slam



I appreciate you asking Dodo,

I'm standalone in may ways on this thread ,perhaps a testament to being wrong, or a testament to not being a sheep,, depending upon the 'spin'

in any case though,


its not hard to understand why its offensive to some,,why they choose not to use it or don't want people using it with THEM


whats hard to understand is why its my business or anyone elses in conversation for which I am not a part what terms people choose in common with EACH OTHER



and I have heard very well educated people use it with each other,,,
I did not grow up around people who use it so I don't use it in the circle I grew up with,, however, the circles I have been in since I GREW UP,, included those who do use the word, and with those groups, I have also used the word


similarly, I have heard jewish call other people jew, but find offense if say,, a Nazi site did the same

and I have heard Foxworthy tell a slew of redneck jokes that may seem slightly offensive if told by Kanye west


I have heard overweight call themselves and other overweight fat, although a skinny person calling them that may be taken in a different context (as an insult)


there are many ways words, including this word, are assimilated into different CONTEXTS,,,,No one gets to own this word and somehow make it the exception everyone else should follow in order to not be deemed more unintelligent than those who don't use it

Personally, I don't care if black Americans call each other the "N" word.

I am simply playing devil's advocate here by asking hard questions about the use of that word.

your participation is appreciated,

and the 'devils advocate' balance you add to these threads

If the black community is arguing for their right to contextual power of a word Ms H, then contextual power in that sense becomes a civil right, which should be awarded to both black AND white people .

And yet , many blacks feel justified in labelling some whites as racist, when those white individuals utilise the word ****** in a "friendly" context, as they have witnessed some of their black friends do.

My point is that black people should no longer reserve the right to label a white person as racist if he/she is excercising his/her right to " contextual power" power of a word ,just like the black people feel entitled to do.

I never said it was a civil right

I only outlined that context matters


the example I gave is that jewish people calling other people jew doesn't have the offensive 'context' of someone in a Nazi uniform calling them the same

the background of the relationship between Nazis and jewish is different than that between jewish and jewish, giving it different CONTEXT


I have heard foxworhty talking about rednecks, but I'm sure that is received differently than if snoop dog made the same jokes



the context of the relationship between the speakers will always matter


'double standard' or not

my labeling of someone racist is by the context of their speech, especially over time, and always will be