10 ignored my message, did u see that
i think he likes me
becaaauuuseee he could easily make a bad joke about my post
but he didnt
because he didnt want to make me feel upset
because he likes me
also he wanted to give a cool look, ignorant
which is also attractive
yeah yeah
he likes me
thanks for fancying me 10

as a serious message,

i think 10 feels guilty about not believing in God
he may or may not believe it
totally up to him
but trying to pull as many people as possible to his side.. that must be because to cool his guilty feeling down..

if you dont like sth you dont, it is that easy
don't tire urself with this much demagogy..

HMMmmmmm....
Its NOT the story of God!
Its more like a story of the planet Earth...



God beget's not, nor is He begotten.
He existed before anything else,
And will exist after everything else ceases to exist.

Now that, is more like a story of God.

A fight to me implies violence which is unnecessary. I had a bout of cabin fever a few years ago when I was unemployed and bored out of my skull. One day I happened to be greeted at the door by a couple of Jehovahs and spent 45 minutes outside listening to their preaching. After that I thought these people were crazy, I was christian listening to fanatical stories and thinking no wonder your door to door knocking but who on earth would believe that crap. Cabin fever kicks in and I started to tear apart at my own religion. Millions of animals on a boat sounds pretty farfetch'd. So as time went on I unspiralled by Christian beliefs in my mind and concluded that since I had found at least one inconsistency then the belief was no longer required.

I guess what is too human of me was "searching" for something to believe in. Although I did not place any effort or research into anything, I began to realise why we have senses (sight, hearing, smell, touch, taste) and I concluded Evolution to be the more appropriate and logical "religion" if you will. Since being a little boy however I was always obsessed with the solar system. I had several telescopes growing up and several statical maps of the solar system. Although again I haven't really put much effort in research about the creation of our planet or solar system, I had heard of the big bang. This to me is a somewhat realistic concept but to be honest I still have my doubts. No one (religion or science) can actually state for definate what caused the big bang. Religion indicates it to be god, science indicates a more complex theory and more likely theory. I have theories of my own but I can't say that I believe any of religions, sciences or my own theories as to the creation of the planet or solar system or universe. However I do believe Evolution occurred, most simply because we have countless amounts of physical proof and the fact that microscopic organisms have had to adapt to survive and the whole predator-prey cycle to get to where we are now.

I thought that the best place to find answers would likely be from the worlds most intelligent man. I have posted a link to this hour and a half long video that I have watched all the way through. I kind of wish they had a voice actor dub over it but what he teaches is more of a logical explanation to some of lifes questions and also questions whether we do or do not require an attachment to a creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj0NL2r6cnU

And your undeniable proof of this is located where exactly?

In his book Rocks of Ages, evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould writes, "Darwin did not use evolution to promote atheism or to maintain that no concept of God could ever be squared with the structure of nature. Rather, he argued that nature's factuality, as read within the magisterium of science, could not resolve, or even specify, the existence or character of God, the ultimate meaning of life, the proper foundations of morality, or any other question within the different magisterium of religion."

In his book Finding Darwin's god, biologist Kenneth R. Miller writes, "Does evolution really nullify all world views that depend on the spiritual? Does it demand logical agnosticism as the price of scientific consistency? And does it rigorously exclude belief in God? These are the questions that I will explore in the pages that follow. My answer, in each and every case, is a resounding 'no'."

Miller, by the way, accepts and teaches modern evolution theory.
The same is true for biologist Mark Buchheim, who writes, "Anyone who tries to link an acceptance of evolutionary theory with atheism or agnosticism is promoting a false dichotomy."

Sociologist Mark A. Foster writes, "There is as much evidence for evolution (most of it genetic) as there is for the heliocentric model of the solar system (that the sun, not the earth, is its center). There is no other side of the coin. Accepting evolution, however, does not mean that one rejects of God or the soul."

Theists and non-theists alike have a gross misunderstanding of what modern evolution theory says. The theory describes the causes of evolutionary events, but nothing in the theory prevents God from participating in evolutionary events.

For example, mutations are known causes of evolutionary events. It is common for people believe that modern evolution theory requires completely random mutations, but the theory requires no such thing. In his book Climbing Mount Improbable, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins says the following:



Show me a person who claims to reject God because of a belief in evolution, and I will show you a person who either . . .

A) doesn't have a correct understanding of modern evolution theory, or

B) is taking the creation accounts of Genesis out of their cultural context, or

C) both.

Here is an excerpt from TalkOrigins Archive, a pro-evolution website that provides scientific rebuttals to attacks on modern evolution theory:



See God and Evolution FAQ.

This "God vs. Evolution" false dichotomy is the result of Westerners injecting their way of thinking into ancient Eastern literature, which is what the Old Testament consists of.

Richards and O'Brien (2012) write, "All Bible reading is necessarily contextual. There is no purely objective biblical interpretation. This is not postmodern relativism. We believe truth is truth. But there's no way around the fact that our cultural and historical contexts supply us with the habits of mind that lead us to read the Bible differently than Christians in other cultural and historical contexts."

It is not a recent discovery that inhabitants of the ancient Middle East didn't think the same way that modern Westerners think. In the Nineteenth-Century Anglican work The Speaker's Commentary, theologian C.J. Ball explains the ancient rabbinic way of teaching:



The ancient Hebrew mode of thought allowed for non-literal stories to be used to convey spiritual lessons. When Westerners concentrate on every detail of the Bible's creation stories, they miss the forest for the trees.

One way to interpret Genesis is mentioned in the TalkOrigins' Interpretations of Genesis FAQ:



Indeed, Old Testament theologians (including those who are theists) have suggested that Genesis creation stories (with Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 being separate stories) originated as Hebrew rebuttals of the ancient Babylonian story of creation.

* * *

Quote Sources (in order of appearance)

Gould, S. J. (1999). Rocks of ages: Science and religion in the fullness of life. New York: Ballantine.

Miller, K.R. (1999). Finding Darwin's god. New York: Cliff Street Books.

Mark Buchheim, M. (2005). "Letter to the editor: an educated response", The Collegian Online. Retrieved from http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=2569 .

Mark A. Foster, M.A. (2001). "The Captain’s Personal bLog", My Looking-Glass Selves. Retrieved from http://editorials.sociosphere.com/arc20020301.html .

Dawkins, R. (1996). Climbing Mount Improbable. New York: W.W. Norton & Company.

VonRoeschlaub, W.K. "God and Evolution", The TalkOrigins Archive. Retrieved from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html

Richards, E.R. and O'Brien B.J. (2012). Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes. Downer Grove: InterVarsity Press.

Ball, C.J. (1888). The Song of the Three Holy Children. The Speaker's Commentary, Apocrypha. London: John Murray.

Schaffner, S. "Various Interpretations of Genesis". The TalkOrigins Archive. Retrieved from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/interpretations.html.

I take it you didn't watch Mr Hawking then? I have read through all your quotes from other people and there are great interpretations their. It would seem (correct me if I'm wrong) that the big bang could have been created by god but no one knows but aside from that it sounds like what these people are implying is that everything that happened in the bible wasn't gods doing. It seems like all accounts of god doing B - Z have been plundered from the book but we now need to get past A: Did god create the big bang? Watching Hawking, he tries to explain how to overcome A but if I am truly honest I still don't know after watching his explanation.

There is of course the whole Hadron Collider that (as understood by me) has been used to try to create the Higgs Boson (God Particle) and or try to replicate the big bang which in theory could mean that we create a miniature universe on our own planet, thus we would also be "god" and could technically be in our own universe inside another planet but of course that's if that is even possible. Me personally shall continue to live my life denying gods existence but it sounds to me that the only question left unanswered by you is Did god create the universe and only the universe? Maybe he created several, maybe he doesn't exist, seems like the only debate left that currently no one has the answers for so would really just be wasting time debating an unanswerable question.

I know what you were saying about all the Darwin and Evolution stuff but I somehow doubt the possibility that god could engineer a big bang to occur that then creates many forms of life that are almost lost many times on many extinction level events to eventually lead us to present day life that meanwhile everything evolves in a predetermined way to get us to this very point where we are today. If we could create a computer program that insanely complex which would likely take Trillions of Trillions of years to even make a little progress. Plus you would have all the failed experiments and hey maybe that's what we are just one of gods little experiments on the side.

However I am aware of a program someone did create whereby little dots on screen killed each other and then some evolved to survive and basically everything kept evolving to survive and creating many species etc. So maybe we and the whole universe is a computer program and that has just made a light-bulb appear, maybe we are in the Matrix technically! Just throwing some more bizarre theories your way that as far as I know also haven't been dis-proven. I think my real point that I was trying to raise from the beginning whilst trying to dumb down religion is Why are we here? It is evident to me that no one knows, no matter how much I challenge people who profess religion, science, evolution, big bang it is apparent that no one knows the answer and it bugs me that we don't know.

lu10nt,

You cited your belief in evolution as your reason for being an atheist.

So, in response, I gave a scholarly rebuttal in which I cite actual scientists who disagree with you.

Now, you shift over to talking about the Big Bang Theory, which, like all scientific theories, is mute in regards to the existence or non-existence of anything supernatural.

Also, the physicists running the Large Hadron Collider haven't used it to re-create the Big Bang, but rather, they have used it to create quark-gluon plasma, which, according to physicists, is what the universe was made of immediately after the Big Bang.

Now, you ask, "Why are we here?"

What if the answer can't be discovered through the use of methodological naturalism (which is used in science) or through the use of ontological naturalism (which isn't required by science)?

If that is the case, then what will you do?

Again I will cite evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould:

Maybe there is a purpose or meaning but this is my logic. If I was going to create something that had an end product (therefore why put humans on this planet) if the end product is greater assuming God is almighty according to everyone then when not just fast forward and create the end product without all this unnecessary life cycle. This makes me think that there is no purpose. You don't create a sniper rifle to then invent the crossbow if you get what I mean. So if there is purpose and meaning chances are we are obselete to that end goal purpose so why are we here.

It seems to me that we are here because of the evolution requirement. When a species finds it difficult to survive because of predators or changes in environment, there becomes a need to evolve and adapt and that the many species constantly trial and error different adaptations (something we don't have conscious control of) until either its too late and become extinct or in fact it works and we evolve to counter the changes. Our purpose is actually very simple, Survive. The problem for our species to a degree is that survival is by far too easy, at least in most parts of the world. Also however due to our more adapted brains coupled with easy survivial we end up being the only ones capable of asking the more complex questions of why are we here. With all our knowledge and capabilities perhaps we should try to accelerate our own evolution to speed up answering these questions. This would likely cause the human race of today to be replaced by a human race of tomorrow but that would simply be because the strong survive and pretty much the world over would not want to be replaced by a more advanced race because we wouldn't dare risk not being top of the food chain.

Mr Hawkings explanation about why we are here was along the lines of everything in the universe being condensed into a size far smaller than imaginable and then it basically exploded spreading debris (planets, stars etc) across what we call the universe. That explosion is still increasing the size of the universe and my theory would be that at some point many trillions of trillions of years away that it would eventually come to a stop but theories are just theories. To be honest I might not have fully understood what Mr Hawking was saying because it was perhaps too complex for supervisor at a convience store but for the most intelligent man alive it might make perfect sense. I don't know if Mr Hawking has made any educational materials about Evolution but to be honest I can see how it works without an education. We evolve eyes to see predators and to see food and then theres all the other senses and abilities we have evolved for good reasons. There are also other things we have perhaps evolved that are a negative affect on living life and this is what I attribute to Trial and Error evolution. Of course you are the educated one so you might have another insight or quote that could perhaps inform me of things I am unaware of. I am pretty much the average joe using his common sense and knowledge to sum up why we are here and seeing if anyone can educate me in areas where my knowledge could be lacking. Just trying to Iron out some creases and perhaps reshape my understanding of lifes big questions.

as impressive as the mortal intelligence displayed here happens to be

(by the way dodo,,,very impressive, demonstrating the ability to be Christian and intelligent)

my much more simplistic take on it all can be summed up with this one quote


"If I was going to create something "



this is the central difference in belief or disbelief


the non believer often will restrict God to their levels and restrictions and mortal priorities and logic

the believer does not place restrictions on God



trying to convince believers that God should or did have the same reasoning and restrictions as we do is about as likely as convincing a non believer that their understanding is irrelevant to the abilities and understanding of the God who could create life itself

There is a God and I'm not him....

Don't get that channel from my cable provider wish I did..

I resigned from the debating society I believe, and don't need to convince anyone else.. I'm not that powerful

Religion/Spirituality and Politics... It's like beating a dead horse

Now chocolate and Vanilla there is a debate I can get into..

why not both? #swirlme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtiJN6yiik

Then Strawberry would feel left out...

haaa


cant leave out the strawberry

#neopolitan

haaa


cant leave out the strawberry

#neopolitan

I expected as much! Religion always has a come back. Surely its quite simple isn't it. You don't spontaniously create the most complex series of events imaginable without putting time, effort and logic into it. God although apparently "no proof" on a higher wave length and thought process than us mere humans managed to spontaniously create everything that we have both discovered and not discovered. What you are telling me is that every single thing that you see day to day that is totally 100% Man-Made was all originally "designed" in a single explosion nearly 14 billions years ago. Surely no matter how complex the creation god took a millisecond to create it and then spent the last 14 billion years just staring at it. I understand that "I create" and "god create" are likely to end up with 2 different outcomes. I baked a cake today, combining ingredients to make a delicious lemon and blueberry cake, On the flip side God was created in the mind and therefore doesn't exist and hasn't created diddly squat. Almost everything on this planet is man made in areas inhabited by humans, the rest is nature but of course that is god too because we have no undeniable proof god even exists but there you go!

New Christianity: Every single Molecule in the entire Universe was created by god and they all happen to be in the exact place, not even a millimitre askew, because that is exactly where god wants them to be at any given time and he checks up on every single molecule to make sure it is exactly where it should be (which it always is because its god and he is totally amazing even though no human has seen or heard of him) and this only takes 0.0000000000000000000000000000001 earth seconds to check every molecule of the whole universe.

So basically every thought or action you do is controlled or predetermined by god and therefore you have no control over your own mind or body although you think you do and therefore may as well throw yourself off a bridge because having no control over your thoughts and actions are better than something else having full control of your thoughts and actions whether you think gods intentions for your use are justified or not because it is evident no one knows what their imaginery friends grand outcome for our species is going to be.

New Atheist: Religion is like a turd, you can polish it, put glitter on it and make it sparkle, you can spray it with air freshner but its still just a turd and from a mile away still smells like one.

Where can I sign up for your New Christianity group ?,haven't heard of it before.One slight problem though,your God is a bit slower than the God in the Bible,do you attribute this lack of speed to old age or redundant technology ? I wouldn't want to believe in a God who came second.

"I am the monument to all your sins"

Because like all "groups" (remembering that atheists aren't a group or organisation but instead free thinking people who can identity when there is a significant lack of evidence) they worship illogical ways of thinking. The reason you haven't heard of this group is because like God, it doesn't exist. Possibilities aren't in fact endless. This God might be slower than whatever god you believe in but the difference is us atheists are streets ahead of talking snakes and boats with over 20 millions animals on board in a time likely before the first ever navel travel by humans. With just a single error in a piece of evidence, the rest then needs to be thrown out and start over but instead you twist and EVOLVE your "faith" which is fine but one day that faith, whether yours or passed down to your disciples will eventually do one of two things. Firstly all that mis-guided faith will hit a brick wall and then people will stop playing the worlds longest game of chinese whispers or you mis-guided faith will be re-directed onto our GUIDED path of snakes don't talk, a wooden ship with that much weight would either sink or spring a leak within 40 days/nights and then how do you feed all 10 millions species with just 2 of everything (and of course there are way more flaws but I will give you as long as you need to twist a new story or dig a bigger hole or you can have more polish for your turd)

I find it funny that I read a post on here about how hot hell is based on the people that will go there and since ALL or MOST Religions seem to (one way or another) dictate that you will go to hell if you don't believe, yet you can't possibly believe ALL Religions due to ALL the conflictions that we will ALL GO TO HELL. However it mentions that it is impossible to leave hell so how do we know that even exists (was it a secret that god told us about but that we can't hear because god is a higher power and doesn't talk to us in the present day because we have attainable means of proof now unlike then). So simple fact, we are all going to hell (according to religion) So who goes to heaven? Jesus and only Jesus, but he died on the cross for our sins so we could go to heaven but because of the conflicts with all religions we will all end up in hell. (sounds confusing right, this is because of religious nuts screwing and twisting the most complex piece of turd for their children and their childrens children to polish).

So anyway I was playing a game as always and mother puts on TV. She watches an A&E program. They rushed into the Hospital a Christian Scientist who had contracted Measles. The reason he was not vaccinated against measles is because he doesn't believe in vaccinations. Look who the idiot is now lying on a hospital bed with degrading health. Did they pray for him to get better like they should have done. Sadly no, they used Science & Medicine to cure him but of course all science is god in the worlds most stupid circular logic mind **** to date with no evidence but on the flip side there is millions of planet sized pieces of evidence against. So he didn't believe in Vaccines, I would predict but too late because I am saying it first that since I do not believe in God as a comparison to his Vaccines, that I will be the idiot in that bed IF (quote IF) God does exist. But like always you are still trying to find proof and no one has yet put their lab coat on but tonnes of stories have had billions of peoples intepretations spin more stories into an already crazy story.

But basically since god created and controls every molecule in the universe then he created hitler and all his evil plans, he was involved in both sides of EVERY WAR, He created Cancer, he gives you life only to take it and yet all the science out there that makes sense of the whole life cycle you still stick to the Worlds Most Polished Turd Record. Really what you are trying to tell me is that if I go outside and do the most harm to people and the planet that it doesn't matter what happens in the court of law because I could use all your twisted mumbo jumbo to say "God made me do it" and get away scott free. This is the root of all evil because God is your scape goat for everything, He is the reason you do good or evil. The Devil therefore is Gods otherside? The Devil and God are the same. Two sides of the same coin and all that. What is most bizarre is that we call him god. Of all the names we call him, its god and his alter ego is devil and yet God & Good are pretty similar just has an extra 'O' and Devil & Evil are pretty similar too by adding or removing the 'D'. ALL IN THE MIND!

Oh! I'm Sorry, Did I just interupt your game of Chinese Whispers

I've heard these vain babblings and science falsely so-called from "Science Worshipers" and atheists like lu10nt for many many years now. There's a Sermon that put this WHOLE ISSUE to bed for me titled "Science Fiction Religion" preached by a Baptist Pastor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JNUlkm__T8


It's silly to even debate this secular nonsense which lu10nt promotes - It's just "Science Fiction Religion." Listen to the Sermon. All of what this Preacher says is ENTIRELY True.

The Truth is that lu10nt HATES the God of the Bible. Look at what he writes in this Thread. He literally HATES God! He despises Him. He "mocks" and belittles those who believe in the LORD. He holds himself "above" everyone else, probably because he has an over indulgence in Science Fiction. What else can explain this type of psyche?

However, MOST of his "so-called" Science is NOT really based upon ANY REAL Science at all. It's "Science Fiction" that these atheists like to call Science. The Bible calls it "vain babblings" and "Science falsely so-called." (1 Timothy 6:20-21)

It's a "Science Fiction Religion" to these atheists like Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawkins and the rest of the "apostles of this "False" Religion.

Just smirk and leave this guy alone. He just wants to argue with Christians to attempt to validate his view - which is total nonsense. Let him go and watch his Stephen Hawkins videos which attempt to "disprove" God. I will just pray that lu10nt will someday believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for his Salvation from an Eternity in Hell.