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Topic: FLAWS...
peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 09:44 AM
Edited by peggy122 on Thu 03/24/16 09:48 AM
Marilyn Munroe said something to the effect that if a man couldn't love her at her worst, then he didn't deserve to have her at her best.


As I get older, i am way less concerned about the number of attributes a guy has, and way more concerned about if both his and my demons can play well together , and if both his and my baggage can fit in the space we have created laugh

Do you overlook one or two INTOLERABLE flaws or differences in a potential mate, if the person has dozens of positive attributes?

OR...

Do you hold on to that person for their numerous attributes but secretly expect them to change that flaw or difference in time?

OR

Do you bypass all the person's attributes and reject a mate on the practicality that you can not tolerate their particular flaw or difference and you cant change them?

And reversely, would you stay with someone who loved and respected MOST of you , but who scorned ONE thing that was fundamentally important to you eg your religion , your parents, your career etc?

sybariticguy's photo
Thu 03/24/16 10:13 AM
While you ask a series of questions that are intended to be helpful they lack any specificity upon which any type of social or interpersonal comparison could be made. Vague terms are not shared nor understood and thus the reader may be comparing apples to oranges regards

peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 10:23 AM
Edited by peggy122 on Thu 03/24/16 11:06 AM

While you ask a series of questions that are intended to be helpful they lack any specificity upon which any type of social or interpersonal comparison could be made. Vague terms are not shared nor understood and thus the reader may be comparing apples to oranges regards


Fair enough...

I must admit that its difficult for me to specify because its all relative to the person readng the question.

I know what flaws and differences that i personally can not tolerate.

I also know what i consider to be attributes so my decisions would be based on that interpretation.

I guess i am leaving it up to the reader to decide what flaws they can not tolerate in someone and to determine if they would overlook it if the person had dozens of other attributes vs that intolerable flaw.

Does that make it a little clearer sybariticguy?

NOBootyHunter's photo
Thu 03/24/16 11:39 AM
If I am attracted to someone their attributes have an important role in that attraction.. That being said there will never be that perfect said person with every quality/attributes I seek.. The ones I dislike or annoy me can be overlooked, but only time will tell how willing They or I are willing to look past or change in spite or the others feelings...say several years down the line..

Would I want to stuff her in a trunk and toss it over a bridge or still look passed it what :laughing: spock

Good Thread! :thumbsup:

PCchefKimmers's photo
Thu 03/24/16 11:49 AM
Having recently experienced this type of situation, I can honestly say that I can overlook certain dislikes, but I need to trust my gut instinct about those that I know will eventually kill the relationship.
Jealousy is one of those dislikes.
I was dating a great guy.....good provider, fun, helpful around the house, great cook....you name it, he had tons of great attributes! Some flaws that were just generally annoying, and easily overlooked, even by my kids, because he WAS such a great guy. BUT, he was obnoxiously jealous, and I didn't listen to my gut the first time it reared it's ugly head....BECAUSE of all of those other great attributes.
After almost 7 years of accusations, distrust, being slowly alienated from family and friends, I finally found the strength to walk away, FOR GOOD!
Not a mistake I hope to make again.

peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 12:05 PM

If I am attracted to someone their attributes have an important role in that attraction.. That being said there will never be that perfect said person with every quality/attributes I seek.. The ones I dislike or annoy me can be overlooked, but only time will tell how willing They or I are willing to look past or change in spite or the others feelings...say several years down the line..

Would I want to stuff her in a trunk and toss it over a bridge or still look passed it what :laughing: spock

Good Thread! :thumbsup:



Thanks booty :thumbsup:

Just to be clear though, I am not referring to pet peeves in the other person like them being unpunctual or them being a nag or them being messy, being sarcastic . Some may say those are more pet peeves as opposed to intolerable flaws.

I am referring to really serious flaws or differences like if the person is unable to sustain a job very long , or if they drink too much or if they are unusually secretive about their life and movements.... or if they have religious views that clash badly with yours etc

In other words, I am referring to the flaws or differences, which from the very start you can almost predict will be a HUGE problem down the road,

BUT...

On the other hand the person is kind, funny charming , generous and a whole lot of other positive things.

Do you overlook that HUUUUUUUUGE flaw/ difference in favour of the other positive qualities?

NOBootyHunter's photo
Thu 03/24/16 12:15 PM
I think I would, but I would try to explain my feelings about the flaw.. would they be willing to work on things and explain I too probably have something they too consider a Flaw... God knows I am far from perfect.. and we can then decide each of use Am I willing to change or even consider it... Do we care enough to make the attempt to do so... whoa spock

peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 12:21 PM

Having recently experienced this type of situation, I can honestly say that I can overlook certain dislikes, but I need to trust my gut instinct about those that I know will eventually kill the relationship.
Jealousy is one of those dislikes.
I was dating a great guy.....good provider, fun, helpful around the house, great cook....you name it, he had tons of great attributes! Some flaws that were just generally annoying, and easily overlooked, even by my kids, because he WAS such a great guy. BUT, he was obnoxiously jealous, and I didn't listen to my gut the first time it reared it's ugly head....BECAUSE of all of those other great attributes.
After almost 7 years of accusations, distrust, being slowly alienated from family and friends, I finally found the strength to walk away, FOR GOOD!
Not a mistake I hope to make again.



Welcome to the forum PCchef!flowerforyou

And I TOTALLY RELATE to what you said!

I had a boyfriend that was sooooooo amazing to me in so many ways.

I had never been more cherished in a relationship before.

But he was also insecure and jealous, and I thought the solution was to keep reassuring him with my love and being totally transparent about my every move.

Instead of getting better, he got WORSE.

This was the only guy I was interested in marrying since my divorce because he and I were so in sync and he was so phenomenal in so many areas .

But that jealousy was a red flag I didn't pay attention to because I thought it would change if I kept on proving my loyalty or love.

that relationship taught me something invaluable.

By the time people are close to 40, they are pretty much fully formed and are almost incapable of change, UNLESS something really drastic in their life happens to inspire it, like the loss of a loved one or a job etc.

If people change ONLY to please you, it is only for a season to appease you.

They are likely to change right back to what they were for the previous thirty something years ohwell

peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 12:25 PM

I think I would, but I would try to explain my feelings about the flaw.. would they be willing to work on things and explain I too probably have something they too consider a Flaw... God knows I am far from perfect.. and we can then decide each of use Am I willing to change or even consider it... Do we care enough to make the attempt to do so... whoa spock


Yeah . I agree it has to be a MUTUAL accepting of each other's intolerable flaws.

As for the change part.

Sadly I don't believe in people's capacity to sustain change by the age of 40 if motivated by love only.

But I admit I am a pessimist in that regard..ohwell

no photo
Thu 03/24/16 12:27 PM
My Demons refuse to play nice with anyone I've ever met, but if I had to choose one of the three inquiries above I would have to go with a self destructive twist of all that leans toward the third. Meaning the more attributes a potential mate has the faster I assume that they have little to no real interest in me. I do this because over the last 20 years I have determined (using scientific methods and statistics) that the females that seem to be the most interested in me, I don't have much interest for and vice-versa.

In laymen's terms, I've excepted that I will be in the friend zone till the day I die.

peggy122's photo
Thu 03/24/16 01:38 PM

My Demons refuse to play nice with anyone I've ever met, but if I had to choose one of the three inquiries above I would have to go with a self destructive twist of all that leans toward the third. Meaning the more attributes a potential mate has the faster I assume that they have little to no real interest in me. I do this because over the last 20 years I have determined (using scientific methods and statistics) that the females that seem to be the most interested in me, I don't have much interest for and vice-versa.

In laymen's terms, I've excepted that I will be in the friend zone till the day I die.




Out of curiousity, do you ever wonder if because you assume that your attraction won't be reciprocated , is it possible that you subconsciously send out friendship vibes that the women you like respond to in kind?

Anyways, meanwhile I am fortunate to find people with whom there is mutual intellectual, physical and emotional chemistry but our values, goals or lifestyles have clashed repeatedly thus far.

The end result is still the same as yours laugh

The only difference is that I haven't lost hope yet, but like you, I plan to embrace my singleness if that's how life works out.

Even now I embrace it. There is a lot of fun and substance to be had on this side of the fence as well :)

technovative's photo
Thu 03/24/16 04:11 PM

and if both his and my baggage can fit in the space we have created laugh


No carry on baggage though. I don't want it looming overhead. It's place is in the cargo hold below. :wink:

In my opinion, too often the word flaw is used to refer to snap conclusions about people based on superficial observations.

Of course when searching for a life partner, it's sensible to evaluate candidates based on your subjective standards. Then decide if the totality of the persons character inspires flexibility in any of your hard-line standards.

Because of the negative connotation the word flaw often carries... in my opinion, it should be used carefully to try and avoid creating an unfair bias about someone. This includes ourselves. :)

no1phD's photo
Thu 03/24/16 05:23 PM
Flaws flaws.... what are these flaws you speak of...hmm

Robxbox73's photo
Thu 03/24/16 05:38 PM
Good post Peggy. Many angles and many insights. If someone was in this situation, I would say there is no clear strategy. If you try to analyze too deeply you run the risk of over controlling the relationship. You must respect yourself enough, that when you see something unaceptable, do not try to overlook it, deal with it at that time. It is better to deal with it sooner than later. If not your partner will wounder why you didn't have a problem with it before. The partner might thing your just looking for a way out. Don't try to change someone. Get your partner to "see" that the suggestions are self improvements, that will make both of you happy. Quid pro quo. Latin for something for something. Don't just make suggestions to change your partner, point that shiny focus lamp on yourself. To avoid the preception that you are making your mate do all the changes, you do some changing too. Do the things your partner likes too, no matter how much you find them dull, uninteresting or pointless. If you do this your partner will take intrest in those silly frilly things that you love. Well Peggy, I hope this was helpful to your post. Remember, this ain't ma first rodeo!
Ciao baby! drinker flowers :laughing: waving

IgorFrankensteen's photo
Thu 03/24/16 05:49 PM
I actually did try the "twenty good things can make the one or two dreadful ones tolerable" route. It seemed logical, especially since there's no such thing as perfection. I figured I could focus on the positives, and close my eyes to the problems, kind of like saying a mantra to avoid thinking about stuff that makes a person sad.

It was a total disaster. Wrong is wrong.

Compatibility isn't quantitative. The opposite, if anything. If you have, say, ten core values, which are what are essential to you, there can be ten thousand other things that are flaws, and they wont matter a damn.

On the other hand, there can be a million things right, but if one of the core items is wrong, it's like eating a meal that's 99.9 % nutrition and .1% deadly poison.


no photo
Thu 03/24/16 09:20 PM


My Demons refuse to play nice with anyone I've ever met, but if I had to choose one of the three inquiries above I would have to go with a self destructive twist of all that leans toward the third. Meaning the more attributes a potential mate has the faster I assume that they have little to no real interest in me. I do this because over the last 20 years I have determined (using scientific methods and statistics) that the females that seem to be the most interested in me, I don't have much interest for and vice-versa.

In laymen's terms, I've excepted that I will be in the friend zone till the day I die.




Out of curiousity, do you ever wonder if because you assume that your attraction won't be reciprocated , is it possible that you subconsciously send out friendship vibes that the women you like respond to in kind?

Anyways, meanwhile I am fortunate to find people with whom there is mutual intellectual, physical and emotional chemistry but our values, goals or lifestyles have clashed repeatedly thus far.

The end result is still the same as yours laugh

The only difference is that I haven't lost hope yet, but like you, I plan to embrace my singleness if that's how life works out.

Even now I embrace it. There is a lot of fun and substance to be had on this side of the fence as well :)


Oh I'm pretty sure that that was true close to when I stopped looking about ten years ago and I was getting really tired of getting shot down. Before that I don't know what more I could have done, I did my best to show I was interested, slipped in the occasional comment about hooking up, and on a few occasions showed that I was good with kids when I would try and get something going with a single mom. In the end it was all for not and the only reason I'm not a virgin is because I took some bad advise which is the only time in my life I wish I had to do over again, but if I did I'd be a real life 40 year old virgin.

no photo
Thu 03/24/16 09:25 PM
Do you overlook one or two INTOLERABLE flaws or differences in a potential mate, if the person has dozens of positive attributes?

Other than avoiding the pedantic definition of "INTOLERABLE" making the question moot...it's not really possible.
Once you've determined something is an "INTOLERABLE flaw" you've judged it.
Even if you choose to ignore it there's a seed in your subconscious that will simply snowball, accrete all the minor flaws, quirks, mistakes, from that point forward, until it's effecting your normal behavior.

At best a week, a month, a year later after continually growing frustrated, growing apart, indirectly acting out, you're just going to overreact to them leaving the toilet seat up, or sneezing when you're trying to sleep, or take something in the context you want in order to justify a decision, never realizing it was you trying to overlook something "INTOLERABLE."

So, I try really hard not to "overlook" an "INTOLERABLE" flaw.
That's just another term for "problem" in the relationship and problems should be addressed directly rather than avoided.
The hotter they are, the more difficult it generally is, though.

Do you hold on to that person for their numerous attributes but secretly expect them to change that flaw or difference in time?

I may "hold on to" someone for their positive "attributes" but I wouldn't "secretly expect them to change" or at least I always expect them to change to some degree, just not how I want them to.
Change is inevitable in the long term.
Can't control it though.

Do you bypass all the person's attributes and reject a mate on the practicality that you can not tolerate their particular flaw or difference and you cant change them?

Of course. Constantly.
Being a relatively straight man I can't tolerate the flaw that some men aren't women, I can't change them, so I don't date them no matter how good a nice guy they may be.

would you stay with someone who loved and respected MOST of you , but who scorned ONE thing that was fundamentally important to you

Probably.
Depends if they kept that entirely in their head, never communicated what was going on, and kept trying to get me to change it for their convenience and pleasure.

PCchefKimmers's photo
Fri 03/25/16 09:43 AM


Having recently experienced this type of situation, I can honestly say that I can overlook certain dislikes, but I need to trust my gut instinct about those that I know will eventually kill the relationship.
Jealousy is one of those dislikes.
I was dating a great guy.....good provider, fun, helpful around the house, great cook....you name it, he had tons of great attributes! Some flaws that were just generally annoying, and easily overlooked, even by my kids, because he WAS such a great guy. BUT, he was obnoxiously jealous, and I didn't listen to my gut the first time it reared it's ugly head....BECAUSE of all of those other great attributes.
After almost 7 years of accusations, distrust, being slowly alienated from family and friends, I finally found the strength to walk away, FOR GOOD!
Not a mistake I hope to make again.



Welcome to the forum PCchef!flowerforyou

EXACTLY Peggy!!! We even tried counseling, which helped some, but, unfortunately brought me to the realization that I did NOT want to do this anymore.
I did the same as you, tried to reassure, changed behavior, even gave up bartending. I was told by mutual friends it takes "4 years or so" for the jealousy to lessen and the trust to increase. It is terribly sad because he was everything I wanted (except rich lol) and balanced my life in so many ways. I still regularly miss the comraderie, the fun, the intimacy (and not just sex you pervs....we were very touchy and loving with each other).....it was a hard decision to make and has been an even harder time finding my way back to my old self!

And I TOTALLY RELATE to what you said!

I had a boyfriend that was sooooooo amazing to me in so many ways.

I had never been more cherished in a relationship before.

But he was also insecure and jealous, and I thought the solution was to keep reassuring him with my love and being totally transparent about my every move.

Instead of getting better, he got WORSE.

This was the only guy I was interested in marrying since my divorce because he and I were so in sync and he was so phenomenal in so many areas .

But that jealousy was a red flag I didn't pay attention to because I thought it would change if I kept on proving my loyalty or love.

that relationship taught me something invaluable.

By the time people are close to 40, they are pretty much fully formed and are almost incapable of change, UNLESS something really drastic in their life happens to inspire it, like the loss of a loved one or a job etc.

If people change ONLY to please you, it is only for a season to appease you.

They are likely to change right back to what they were for the previous thirty something years ohwell

peggy122's photo
Fri 03/25/16 02:57 PM


and if both his and my baggage can fit in the space we have created laugh


No carry on baggage though. I don't want it looming overhead. It's place is in the cargo hold below. :wink:

In my opinion, too often the word flaw is used to refer to snap conclusions about people based on superficial observations.

Of course when searching for a life partner, it's sensible to evaluate candidates based on your subjective standards. Then decide if the totality of the persons character inspires flexibility in any of your hard-line standards.

Because of the negative connotation the word flaw often carries... in my opinion, it should be used carefully to try and avoid creating an unfair bias about someone. This includes ourselves. :)



Hey John waving

I'm always intrigued by your take on things. happy

You're right . Baggage is something you place in the background rather than the forefront , although the fact that it isn't noticeable doesn't make it any less real laugh

And I agree that a lot of people attach negative connotations to flaws , but I personally see flaws as a shared trait in the human condition. It weaves all of us together . No one is exempt from flaws.

When it comes to a relationship, I don't think the issue is about whose flaw is worse than the other, which seems to be a common argument among couples. It's more about a mutual capacity for tolerating each other's flaws or differences.

I believe mutual tolerance of flaws and acceptance of differences, is one of the most neglected cornerstones of long-term relationships.

But there are some flaws or differences that practically invoke a heavy crisis down the line. Maybe I can refer to those epic shortcomings as tragic flaws.

That's when it becomes necessary to honestly assess one's capacity to to cope with that flaw, as the other person does the same for you, and both parties have to decide if the other person is worth the potential heartache ahead that is almost imminent.

mikey5360's photo
Fri 03/25/16 03:06 PM
It's our imperfections that make us all so unique....
Sure we can easily fall in love with what we perceive as perfection....
But if we can't fall in love with those crazy...freaky...creepy...flaws....ummmm attributes....
Then what hope have we got....

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