okay,everyone is always so busy trying to get their point across that they are not willing to listen closely and carefully to the other person,i can see that no matter what i say,i will not be heard or understood the way i intended,i'm fine with that.everyone is intitled to their opinion.i do feel bad for the american soldier,that is my point..i feel for anyone hurt by the actions of another.i just think that so much is senseless.

It is a sad reality that indeed some of these people are using fake ss numbers. And I imagine identities. I have never given that much thought until yesterday. I wonder who gave them these id's? Wonder was it white Americans? Probably so. Even so, that is something I am becoming concerned about. I really had not given that much thought. I wonder how much good that actually did someone and how much actual damage we will see from that? It is a little scary.

There have come to my attention of a few things I had not thought of before. It is a worry. But, it still fills my heart with sadness to think of all the displaced families. As for the women married to illegals, I feel for them. One cannot choose who the heart falls in love with.

To be so brazen as to call a person that feels compassion for all "not American" is absurd.

I am as American as the next person. I bet I am involved with more American politics and the such than many who are talking here. The only thing I have done wrong is have a heart.

I also am striving to pick my business back up or get into something else. I was having no problem with work and all of a sudden the work has slowed waaaaay down. I mean in a matter of a few weeks.

I also am having probs keeping a vehicle together.
I live in a modest house 850 sq. ft. with a one car garage that is a storage unit. lol. Nice house but very small. Two cars and one I can't afford to fix right now. It takes all I make to live and pay bills.
As of a couple of weeks ago I work by myself. That is killing me. It is very hard. Anyway, I know the pitfalls of working ALL the time and seemingly getting nowhere. Now it seems to be falling away. Work is not coming as fast as it was before.
Oh well. It comes and it goes. So goes life.

Love to all of you, fanta and spur included. I have been blindsided by you fanta. I have never seen a negative side to you before. I am confused. Peace all.....
Kat

Ms scttrbrain,
Sorry to hear your business is on a downturn.
If you practice faith, you might remember. When one door closes another will open. Possibly, an even better opportunity will open for you. I can only pay it does.

I WANT TO SAY TO EVERYONE THAT THE AMERICAS START AT CANADA AND END AT THE BOTTOM OF PERU I REFRAIN FROM USEING THE FRAZE AMERICAN BECAUSE THEY AEY ARE ALL "AMERICAN" SO PLEASE TRY TO USE THE RIGHT DEFINATION U.S. CITIZENS BECAUSE MANY ILLEGALS USE AMERICAN AS A REPRESENTATION OF LEGALITY.KAT I TOO AM SORRY FOR YOUR BUSINESS DOING SO BAD I WISH A SPEEDY RECOVERY,I AM TRUELLY SORRY FOR GETTING ANGRY AND INSULTING ANY OF THE MEMBERS HERE I JUST HOPE IN THE FUTURE YOU TAKE THIS INFORMATION TO PROTECT YOUR SELVES, THE LAWS ARE CHANGEING AND IT WOULD BE A SHAME THAT YOU WOULD GET CAUGH UP IN BEING A HUMANATERIAN.I FEEL BAD THAT I HAVE GOTTEN A REAL BAD ATTUDE TOWARDS PEOPLE I HAVE LEARNED TO LOVE AND FEEL SORRY FOR,I AM AS GUILTY OF HELPING ILLEGALS IN THE PAST TO REACH FRESNO CALIFORNIA FROM THE BORDER BUT I WOULDNT PASS PEOPLE WHO WERENT GOING TO WORK IN THE FIELDS, BUT DESPERATE TIMES CREATE CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR SOMETIMES, IF I ONLY KNEW THEN THE PROBLEMS THAT WERE GOING TO OCCURE BECAUSE OF MY ACTIONS I VIRTUALLY SCREWED MYSELF OUT OF WORK.SOME OF THE THINGS SAID ABOUT OUR SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN UNFAIR THEY ARE NOT HERE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND WE ARE NOT THERE TO SEE WHAT ACTIONS THEY ARE DOING THE ONES CAUGHT ARE BEING PROSECUTED AND LETS SEE HOW ANY OF YOU WOULD ACT AFTER BEING SHOT AT OR BOMBS GOING OFF AT THEM ON A DAILY BASIS 6+MONTHS OF DUTY FACEING SOME OF THE HARSHEST CONDITIONS LIKE 140 DEGREES F DURING THE SUMMER IT A WONDER THAT THEY ALL HAVENT LOST THEIR MINDS.

Dean
With all respect your wrong, The U.S. was built by Italians, Irish, and all the other poor immigrants who went there in hope, its a fact most illegals do the work that others won't do, and if they were deported your country would come to a stand-still. Think I would be more concerned about Iraq and the war there and loss of life on both sides than the illegal population. I hate the idea that your Mr.Bush and my goverment use my country to re-fuel on their way to Iraq, I also hate all the loss of those young men and women in a country so far away from their loved ones,I think illegals should be very low on your agenda, and getting your soldiers back home should be top of the list. By the way very grateful for their efforts towards all those that want war.

a lot have been said, i can't say much cause it seems pointless.
the stubborns are always going to be stubborn

I disagree.

Some illegals are taking
over work that other
people want to do.

The construction industry
for one.

By working cheaper on contracts
they take work away from
United States citizens.

So it is not completely
true that they "do the
work others won't do".

A more accurate phrase
would be that they do
the work others want
to do, but cheaper,
so they get the work
where the others don't.

People that want to
work in this country
should either apply
for a temporary visa
or apply for citizenship.

If they don't they are
here illegally.

They are breaking the law.

A big part of the problem
is employers who hire them
knowing they're illegal,
but either look the other
way, or they don't check.

for dean with regard a post about me taking grants.
i did not get any grant, I got scholarships, it's not my fault getting better grades than most of the high school graduates in my college.

WELL CELTICFAIRY MY ANCESTORS CAME THRU ELLIS ISLAND LEGALLY THEY WERE IRISH AND AT THAT TIME THE SCUM OF THE EARTH AND CAME HERE LEGALLY,YOU KNOW I HAVE SHOVELED SH-IT DUG DITCHES AND PULLED WEEDS THERE ISANT JOB I HAVE REFUSED I HAVE WORKED MY WAY UP TO BEING OUT OF A JOB CAUSE I WONT WORK FOR THE WADGES THE ILLEGALS WILL I HAVE PAYED MY DUES AND I BELIEVE I DESERVE A DECENT WAGE IU SHOULDNT HAVE TO LIVE IN A 3 BEDROOM HOUSE WITH 20 PEOPLE SO I CAN GET AHEAD.AND WALKER YOU ARE NOT FROM HERE BUT IT IS GIVING YOU AN EDUCATION WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO CHANGE OUR GOVERNMENT AND LAWS DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY IN YOUR COUNTRY AND PERSONALLY I DONT FEEL YOU HAVE A VOICE IN THIS DEBATE.

Celtic I doubt the country would come to a standstill if we sent illegals home.Americans are willing to do the work,you think we don't want to feed our families?americans are painted as lazy but in fact most I know bust their buns.Their is no job an American is not willing to do.Watch the show"Dirty Jobs" and you'll see what I mean.

I agree.

But to send illegals home
they first have to be
identified.

If you live in this
country you should
have an I.D. that
identifies who you
are and where you're
from.

They require all
that information
for your driver's
license don't they?

The solution is
require an I.D.
for everyone,
no exceptions.

You can't buy,
sell or work
if you don't
have one.

Period.

I should have
said a verifiable
I.D. that can't
be counterfeited.

WALKER I JUST READ YOU ANSWER TO THE NOT GRANTS BUT SCHOLARSHIPS THERE AGAIN WHERE A NON CITIZEN HAS PROFITED BY OUR GENEROSITY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESERVED BY A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY WHAT DID YOUR COUNTRY OFFER YOU,THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT AND I TRUELLY BELIEVE THAT WE ASSIST ENOUGH WITHOUT GIVE AWAY AN EDUCATION TO NON-CITIZENS.

WELL MNHIKER THERE ISANT ANYTHING MADE THAT CANT BE COUNTERFEITED EVEN THE POLICE HAVE COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS WHEN DETAINING SOMEONE,IF IT MEANS BEING IN JAIL UNTIL THEY CAN DETERMINE WHO YOU ARE WILL BE A PERSONAL PROBLEM AND AFTER ONE TIME IN JAIL THEIR FINGERPRINTS WILL FOREVER DETERMINE WHO THEY ARE.

no no dean
that is ur mistake, i earned the scholarship because i study hard.
so it's not profit, it's earning
please sir revise ur word definitions before using the words.

dean, I have
a Minnesota driver's license
that has holographic loons
in it.

Holograms are hard
to counterfeit.

You need special
equipment.

I KNOW MNHIKER THY SELL THE EQUIPMENT ON THE NET THE CAMERAS CAN COST MORE THEN THE EQUIPMENT DOES.

I am sorry if I blind-sided you kat. Its just that I have worked on this issue for many years and I am very passionate about it. Ive heard all the arguements and to ensure my stance was unbiased I researched a lot!

I sought answers to questions that many have and use as baseless arguements! Years and every arguement you could throw out I have researched!

Celtic, Every year employers are polled to see how many work visas are necessary! Farm work, seafood processing plants, and poultry processing plants. These are among the industries that qualify for this type of workers.

They tell the government how many workers they need and the number of work permits are adjusted from that! These workers are not illegal and the government requires that the industry provide shelter and adequate health care for the workers! It is a very fair arrangement for both the workers and the industry!

However, and here comes the kicker, the industry would rather hire illegals. They dont have to provide the services and they dont have to be fair to the workers. This is where I get that anyone who supports the illegal immigration is essentialy supporting unfair labor practices, (slave labor).

It is cheaper for the employer, but for everyone else it does nothing. The illegals are trapped and Americans lose their jobs as the practice is carried on to other industries that dont even qualify for H-2 workers!

For law enforcement it creates a real nightmare. The illegals melt into the population, noone knows who they really are and the numbers are all estimates. Between 12 and 24 million is as accurate as they can get. The illegals are unknown!

The bleeding hearts, ACLU, and industry supporters are milking Americans of Taxes and jobs. Because these companies hire the illegals the tax-payer becomes the ones that pay for their health-care and childrens education. There are other costs but Im not going to get into them all.

NC alone, 1 of 50 states! Estimates it cost our state tax-payers $997,000,000 , yes million dollars, last year alone!

I posted an article on here not long ago about a man that was arrested for rapeing little girls. Hes in our jail now, but this was the third state that he had been charged in for the same crimes. Different cases but the same offense. The police arent even sure what his real name is. He had several ID's on him when arrested.

****, I could go on for days about stuff like this and I get a little frustrated at times with the petty ass arguements that come from people that dont even know that there would not be any price increase, or a harvest missed if the illegals were all shipped home tomorrow.

The construction industry might be taken back a little while they rehire the men they laid off, but hell their profits should sustain them untill then, because I have yet to see the price of a new home go down or even remain steady by their hiring the illegals for half the wages!

Thanks spur and dean. I do work in the new construction business. We saw it coming. It is not as if we did not know this would happen. Many houses and the sort, will come to a stand still momentarily. I have been looking for a reason to do other work anyway. When I was driving through a few of the sites Friday it was almost eary. It was too quiet. Very few working.
Makes me wonder what will happen to all the pampered and richer than me peoples lawns. There is so much lawn work around here. All the gated communities use lawn care people. As do the ones with money.

As for using the term citizens....I find that almost funny because I am of the biker type. We rode all over the place and with many different groups. My husband was of a unit that is very recognizable. He is gone now. Seems, so is all my fun. But anyway, citizens is what the family calls regular people.

The thing about these sites; is we should be able to disagree with out hating. I am very glad that we have come to a comfortable place in this thread.
Kat