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| Topic: Feminism and Men | |
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For me feminism is not really about equal pay but equal rights. The right to choose. I'm a big fan of mums staying at home with their kids until they go to school The idea that we pay someone else to look after our children while we go to work seems ridiculous. Why not just pay the Mum (or Dad) to stay at home with the kids? Society blames parents on the one hand for their failure to bring up their kids properly and then makes them feel inadequate if they're not out working. Catch-22. Never a good place to be. I also dislike bras - very uncomfortable things (but feel I need to wear one to work) and I don't like wearing make-up - makes my face feel horrible. So as a feminist I feel I have the right to choose not to wear it - but I do bow down to society's pressure on the bra thing. Ah well, I do need that job. its like looking in a mirror,,,  Yay - I thought I might get negative feedback on that one but I'm on a winner today - Woop woop! 
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feminists are not all the same, the can be as difficult or as easy as a non feminist, dontcha think? I would think it odd for a male to exclude the possibility of being with a feminist,,,,,since there are so many women with so many different personalities,, for instance, you may have a 'feminist' who supports the woman who stays home and the woman who 'works' or you may have the feminist who thinks all women should have a source of earned income and look down on them if they stay home instead,,, ,,seems we would have more certain answers with a more specific questions like fellas, do you want a lady who is comfortable taking care of home and kids while you work,, or do you prefer the lady to be out of the house working as well? if you are both working, do you still think she should be the one dealing with everything at the house once you are at home? if she stays home while you work, do you think when you come home you are free to do as you want and her job at the house should be around the clock? ..... You and I don't often agree, but I think you're making very valid points here. Ideally, in a marriage and kids situation, one person would stay home and take care of the home and family. In reality, this is not practical for most people. Therefore, shared responsibility would be ideal. Some who call themselves feminists look down on women who choose the more traditional role of full time mother. Support for women women being paid the same as men for doing the same work only makes sense. I've found some information to suggest that the pay gap is not as wide as we are led to believe, but I don't know how reliable that information is. Either way, if you and I are hired to do the same job for the same employer at the same time, our pay most certainly should be the same. After that initial hiring, a number of factors will determine if you and I should continue to receive the same pay or, if based on job performance, one should be paid more. But that's leading us off topic. Those feminists who support the choices they like, but look down on women who make choices they don't like are women I can't be with. Those who support misandry as a means of correcting past wrongs are also women I can't be with. Those who agree that a woman came from the man's rib (whatever your religious views may be, this may be literal or literary), not from the head to be superior nor the feet to be walked on, but from the side to be equal, from under the arm to be protected, and from near the heart to be loved, is someone I can be with. love that,, from the side to be equal, from under the arm to be protected, and from near the heart to be loved,,, Well put  I'd love to take credit for that, but I'm simply repeating something someone else (I don't know who) said that makes sense to me. |
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and now a song.....from Lana Del Rey....
F***ed my way up to the top..............on you tube.....someone pls blue-link it for me, ty |
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and now a song.....from Lana Del Rey.... F***ed my way up to the top..............on you tube.....someone pls blue-link it for me, ty
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Lana made a comment about fantasizing about dying. I don't know if feminists have a death wish. Last I heard they like living. Hardly a Gloria Steinem.
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feminists are not all the same, the can be as difficult or as easy as a non feminist, dontcha think? I would think it odd for a male to exclude the possibility of being with a feminist,,,,,since there are so many women with so many different personalities,, for instance, you may have a 'feminist' who supports the woman who stays home and the woman who 'works' or you may have the feminist who thinks all women should have a source of earned income and look down on them if they stay home instead,,, ,,seems we would have more certain answers with a more specific questions like fellas, do you want a lady who is comfortable taking care of home and kids while you work,, or do you prefer the lady to be out of the house working as well? if you are both working, do you still think she should be the one dealing with everything at the house once you are at home? if she stays home while you work, do you think when you come home you are free to do as you want and her job at the house should be around the clock? .....  Well said...A feminist believes in two basic things...Shared responsibility and choice...She can be a stay at home mom, a career person, a politician, hell even a nun...The point is,,,,,, it's her choice.... Right now "the average" gap is $.78 to $.80 cents on the dollar...Women still earn about 20% less than men across the board... This wage gap is a myth and untrue. The way this myth is achieved is: The 77 cent figure is determined by adding essentially all of the men’s salaries and all of the women’s salaries, coming up with an average wage, and comparing the difference. That difference is the 77 cent figure, but it leaves out all of the important variables that explain for the gap. You could just as easily factually state that women weigh just 77% of what men do, or that women are just 77% the height of men and still be accurate while actually lying by omission. There are too many variables to go into but the days of the female wage gap are long past. Drives me crazy to see this presented as fact and regurgitated over and over when it's just not true. It's comparing apples to oranges. I'm in the accounting profession, there is no wage gap. All depends on the type of accounting you do, if you are in management. I see the salary comparisons for my area and what I do, I'm completely in sync. Everyone makes choices or priorities. I'm not talking about a formula that uses ALL full-time, median earning working women and men to calculate the gap, I am talking about the disparity between same job, same level of education, same experience full time earners...In study after study the results are the same...Women still earn an average of 20% less than men for the exact same job...Even in the formula you're talking about that shows $.77 on the dollar for the ladies the accuracy, after taking into consideration ALL the variables, remains at 60%...IMO, it's a damn shame and it needs to stop...:-) I'm not sure where you are coming up with your supposed 20% disparity in income or what "studies" you are citing but I guess that just goes with the feminist ideology. Maybe you will believe the Wall Street Journal. Sorry for not having the code to set a link but just copy and paste to go to the link. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472 If those claims were true, then businesses would be replacing as many positions as possible with females to cut 20% from the their costs. |
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1st. the link offered requires a subscription
2nd, in large bold letters at the top of the page it clearly says 'opinion' |
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1st. the link offered requires a subscription 2nd, in large bold letters at the top of the page it clearly says 'opinion' Okay go to this Time link: http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/ Go to myth number 5. |
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ahh, there is that pesky word 'opinion' at the top of the page
but its an interesting opinion,, |
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I am proud to be a modern feminist. No, I'm not a radical. Yes, I believe in marriage equality. Yes, I am pro-choice. No, I don't LOVE to clean, but I will when it needs to be done, and I hope I'm not the only one. Yes, I love to cook, but not every night. Yes, I believe that this is a man's world, but I'm doing well for a woman my age and I think a lot of problems are finally seeing light. Yes, I was molested and raped as a child, by two different men. No, I didn't deserve it or ask for it, and no I'm not a lesbian and NO I do not hate men. Feminism, to me, means being able to stand up for the equality and safety of all human beings, regardless of gender. Feminism means that rape is unacceptable, that the beauty ideal is total BS, that women deserve the same rights as men. No, I won't punch you in the face or have you charged with assault if you argue with me, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just don't go out of your way to be rude to me because I'm a feminist.
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feminists try to support females,, it doesn't mean they don't support men as well,,,
,,in my opinion beyond that, a feminist can have any combination of personal values and standards,, |
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ahh, there is that pesky word 'opinion' at the top of the page but its an interesting opinion,, Okay sweetheart, you want something without "opinion" at the top of the page: http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2012/11/05/the_female_wage_gap_is_a_major_economic_myth_99969.html |
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I agree with this, when talking about 'median'. This accounts all workers and obviously some work pays more than other.
However, this has little to do with LEIGHS point about wages across the same CAREER. The author of this piece makes an erroneous conclusion that it is probably not true because it would effect output vs profit. The reason employers entice with MORE money is because they believe that candidate will produce more and if the common stereotype is that a man will produce more, it is completely in line that they follow through that stereotype by offering the men more. |
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I agree with this, when talking about 'median'. This accounts all workers and obviously some work pays more than other. However, this has little to do with LEIGHS point about wages across the same CAREER. The author of this piece makes an erroneous conclusion that it is probably not true because it would effect output vs profit. The reason employers entice with MORE money is because they believe that candidate will produce more and if the common stereotype is that a man will produce more, it is completely in line that they follow through that stereotype by offering the men more. And where do you come up with that conclusion about the common stereotype? Seems to me that is your opinion based on what? |
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I am addressing the beauty ideal which someone mentioned is so abhorrent to feminists. Men are emasculated on many levels today but women still live in their world. Men are visual beings. I, for one, have no problem with the beauty ideal. Since men are visual beings, the beauty ideal works for some women, not for many others. There is a power to how someone presents oneself. Use your beauty to empower yourself, not treat it disdainfully or beneath you or diminishing. It's common knowledge that beautiful people get the better jobs, the more successful spouses, better service at establishments. As a matter of fact, both men and women appreciate a beautiful person. The ideal is in our biology. We gravitate towards facial symmetry since it's not only associated with beauty but health and fitness to reproduce the fittest progeny. Biologically speaking, a beautiful person = the fittest person. Beauty should be seen as a strength. But most unattractive people like to cut down attractive people by calling them shallow or stupid to make themselves feel better. As a matter of fact, even Einstein was gorgeous in his youth and quite popular with the ladies. Society loves to depict him as an aging mad scientist with unruly white hair protruding in every direction, as if genius should be associated with crazy or unattractive. Not so. One can be both smart and beautiful. Emphasizing beauty doesn't diminish intelligence or self-worth. No one should have to apologize for being beautiful or hide one's beauty to please someone's warped sense of what is a strength.
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Why is feminism not called equalism
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Guys...would you want to be in relationship with today's modern feminist? Is it something you would see challenging and enticing over someone you normally would be attracted to?  
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Why is feminism not called equalism It's called feminism because of its roots in women's fight for equal legal rights i.e. the suffragettes |
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feminists are not all the same, the can be as difficult or as easy as a non feminist, dontcha think? I would think it odd for a male to exclude the possibility of being with a feminist,,,,,since there are so many women with so many different personalities,, for instance, you may have a 'feminist' who supports the woman who stays home and the woman who 'works' or you may have the feminist who thinks all women should have a source of earned income and look down on them if they stay home instead,,, ,,seems we would have more certain answers with a more specific questions like fellas, do you want a lady who is comfortable taking care of home and kids while you work,, or do you prefer the lady to be out of the house working as well? if you are both working, do you still think she should be the one dealing with everything at the house once you are at home? if she stays home while you work, do you think when you come home you are free to do as you want and her job at the house should be around the clock? ..... Well said...A feminist believes in two basic things...Shared responsibility and choice...She can be a stay at home mom, a career person, a politician, hell even a nun...The point is,,,,,, it's her choice.... Right now "the average" gap is $.78 to $.80 cents on the dollar...Women still earn about 20% less than men across the board... This wage gap is a myth and untrue. The way this myth is achieved is: The 77 cent figure is determined by adding essentially all of the men’s salaries and all of the women’s salaries, coming up with an average wage, and comparing the difference. That difference is the 77 cent figure, but it leaves out all of the important variables that explain for the gap. You could just as easily factually state that women weigh just 77% of what men do, or that women are just 77% the height of men and still be accurate while actually lying by omission. There are too many variables to go into but the days of the female wage gap are long past. Drives me crazy to see this presented as fact and regurgitated over and over when it's just not true. It's comparing apples to oranges. I'm in the accounting profession, there is no wage gap. All depends on the type of accounting you do, if you are in management. I see the salary comparisons for my area and what I do, I'm completely in sync. Everyone makes choices or priorities. I'm not talking about a formula that uses ALL full-time, median earning working women and men to calculate the gap, I am talking about the disparity between same job, same level of education, same experience full time earners...In study after study the results are the same...Women still earn an average of 20% less than men for the exact same job...Even in the formula you're talking about that shows $.77 on the dollar for the ladies the accuracy, after taking into consideration ALL the variables, remains at 60%...IMO, it's a damn shame and it needs to stop...:-) If those claims were true, then businesses would be replacing as many positions as possible with females to cut 20% from the their costs. They already have!... As of December 2014,there were 73 million working women in the US...They account for 47% of the workforce AND they represent 51% of professional and technical occupations... In the 2012-13 school year the majority of post-secondary degrees went to women...Women far outnumber men at all levels of degree and the trend is continuing... Despite high levels of education and strong representation in professional and technical occupations, women still face a wage gap in these areas of 12%...AND...in legal occupations the wage gap is a whopping 57%!...When you translate these inequities to "lifetime" earnings the estimates indicate that women could earn as much as a HALF MILLION LESS than their male counterparts for doing the exact same job...Pitiful and wrong... |
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