the wrong meal at the wrong table,,,,


although everything you have stated is, I guess, commendable,


( I likewise don't exactly hang out with drug users or alcoholics,,etc,, even though its not always evident someone is alcoholic or using drugs and they dont always announce or promote it)


none of it supports my reasons for complimenting a mingler as

'my kind of human'

My bad. As I've stated elsewhere, I'm relatively new here, so I wasn't aware that you were "complimenting" a co-mingler for being "(your) kind of human" based on a previous posting/real life encounter with him.

In my defense, you DID quote his post in which he agreed with you that society is to blame for women's body issues, youths' suicides, and dining at McDonalds rather than eating healthy foods,

as examples of the types of things society causes in others and that its members have no choice BUT to make poor choices based on its influence.

Every single moment of our lives are choices.
From trivial daily routines to life changing events.
Yes, our choices are influenced by our experiences but at every moment we make a choice to follow knee jerk reactions or make a conscious decision to follow another path.
Being aware of what patterns have caused destructive events to continue in our life will allow changes to be made.
Live your life with consciousness, awareness and blame no one for the responsibility of being self.

Easier said than done, but trying.

no problems

michela , from my interpretation, spoke about 'responsibility' and not 'blame'

my type of person in how he approaches topics with compassion and openness to consider more than one answer or position,,,,,

he seems to care about people, as flawed humans, much more than the average joe,, but that's just my perception,,

By one of your examples, it could be said, that someone is responsible for causing the droughts that cause crop shortages that cause starvation.
.
Seeing as how droughts are documents as occurring throughout recorded history, who is responsible for that? Did George Dubya
"aim" that starvation causing drought at Ethiopia, and cause starvation during the 1980s?

I also noticed in your argument, race. Is this really about "whitey"
keepin' the bruthas and sistas down?

People shouldn't be held accountable for their choices, their actions,
because it's someone else's fault, that they live in poverty?

Im not sure where any of your conclusions are drawn from

a drought would be a NATURAL disaster,,,

crop shortage as a result would also be natural



and people should have accountability for their actions and choices, through not just 'blame' but the concept of 'responsibility'

so, if I can accept the 'responsibility' of treating people with decency, I might INFLUENCE someone else to make the same 'choice'

and if instead, I don't feel a 'responsibility' to treat people with decency, I might INFLUENCE someone elses choice to hurt others, for which they will indeed be held 'accountable', by the law (if it is illegal and they are caught)




I posted nothing here about 'race' or 'whitey'


I think its a different debate you may be seeking,,,

Gosh, msharmony, I really DO enjoy your posts and your threads...truly. You bring an interesting and intelligent perspective to all the discussions I've ever seen you engage in; it's refreshing, really, to be able to HAVE intelligent discussions on a dating site's forums.

If I'm understanding correctly, you've again asserted that suicides can be prevented/lessened if society would make a 'choice' to treat others more kindly, thus giving others the choice to pay it forward.

To accept this, I'd have to accept that suicides occur because of the way others treat us...like, as a minor, being bullied in school or as an adult, the way society treats us.

Again, I'm not uber-familiar with people who choose to commit suicide, but I've heard of (as examples) male executives killing themselves because they've lost their job and can't afford their mortgage. I've heard of young girls killing themselves because they're pregnant and can't handle their parents' reaction to their unwed - and young! - pregnancy. Politicians have committed suicide rather than have their latest sexual transgression/obsession leaked by the press. People have killed themselves to escape prosecution, after killing others.

The list goes on and on as to the reasons I've heard for suicide. Are you suggesting that employers should not fire sub-par workers, lest they kill themselves? Banks shouldn't foreclose upon people who aren't keeping up with their payments? Parents shouldn't be disappointed in (what they see as) wayward daughters? The press - and society - should turn blind eyes to our elected leaders who attempt to force legislating OUR morality, while running amok with their own? Laws should be relaxed for those who kill others while robbing a bank?

Where does this 'kindness' extended to others end? Where does their 'responsibility' for their own 'chosen' actions - and the resultant consequences of their own 'chosen' actions - end?



Oh, and you don't believe you've introduced 'race' into this discussion, however it smacks of it. It's the fundamental underlying principle of "White Privilege" and how it (effectively) works in the U.S. It's one of the sociological concepts I, as a white woman in the U.S., still grapple with, today. I live in - and agree with - our country's *founding* principle that says it's the Land of Opportunity, equally accessible to - and for - all; with enough hard work, success is available to anyone. THIS foot race is open to everyone, and it's anyone's to win.

All the while, we choose to ignore that in this race-to-the-finish-line, whites have enjoyed a HUGE lead (in the form a 400-year jump on all other 'races'); our starting gate is moved a few hundreds UP the track from where all the other 'races' *get* to start to see who *wins*.

I grapple with the conflicting ideal, understanding, and knowledge constantly. I don't know the solution. I DO know denying its existence and/or holding on to "that's just the way things are" and/or continuing to use derogatory phrases, words, and thoughts on one another hasn't worked.

I still hold out hope that an intelligent discourse and sharing of thoughts COULD work, no matter how many naysayers attempt to throw in distractions to ensure it won't.



Keep up the good work on your end, 'kay?!?

While I agree that choices are constrained by a collective/social/environmental set of factors, final guilt and innocence are inevitably atomized into individuals.

The basic reason is moral agency, even in minors. School and parents are "guardians" of minors in a legal sense, but that does not deny that minors Nicole's age (and younger) have enough sense to conduct the very basics of their own lives. (such as decision to live or die). They are minors without full rights when it comes to military service, the vote, alcohol and the like because they very very likely cannot handle such stimulants or decisions at their age.

However, they can decide whether to live or die. "shared responsibility" puts a pre-emptive burden on schools to know, with almost magical accuracy, when a group of teens is "just kidding" and when they're serious. No school administrator/teacher/counselor could make that decision with accuracy if for no other reason than because there are simply too many kids, each with their issues.

Nicole had moral agency. she was not an automaton set on "suicide". If Nicole got bad grades, bullied someone, or, conversely, did something praiseworthy... in all cases there would be external constraints and social structures that "share responsibility" for her success/failure. But she would have large degree of success/failure all of her own (otherwise, what is the rationale of handing out grades, or punishing bullies or rewarding praiseworthy conduct?).

no, I am not asserting suicide can be MADE to happen or PREVENTED by kindness, IM asserting kind action can INFLUENCE more kind reactions ,and heartless actions can INFLUENCE more HEARTLESS reactions

its not definite, but there is a good chance of it



no, suicides don't ONLY happen because of how we are treated,, but how we are treated can certainly INFLUENCE our self worth and our self value and whether we feel our life is worth it,, which can INFLUENCE our decision to live or not



firing sub par workers, foreclosing on homes, politics, and laws are not the same thing as decent behavior and treatment of each other,, these are matters of laws and contracts,, not personal,,,,

and being disappointed in people Is indeed personal , but it doesn't dictate how we manifest or express that disappointment,, even in that we can be considerate ,


kindness doesn't need to 'end' ,, its just a way to carry ourselves in our PERSONAL interactions, in how we speak to people and treat people


WE all have responsibility for our own actions, but we are not solely responsible for the influences or options that lead us to those actions,,

we don't develop in a vacuum, nor do our opinions, values, esteem, or morals,,


Im not sure where or how race or white privilege was introduced into this thread,,,lol


I do try my best to communicate in an intelligent and respectful manner,

at least I try to with those who communicate with me in an intelligent and respectful manner

for others,, those bets are off,,,

"A smile you sent, will always return"