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| Topic: Looking for something more... | |
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I would need more than a bit of intimacy before I would feel any duty to supplement a woman's income. My ex girlfriend was used to being independant and bringing her daughter up on her own. If I had tried to give her money she wouldn't have accepted it but looking back on it now, if I had done things like taking her on nice holidays it might have gone better and we might have become more serious. About the closest I got to being a family man there was giving the daughter pocket money when the girlfriend couldn't really afford to. Of course, that got the kid out from under our feet and let us have time alone together when I went round to her place, so it was just something that I wanted to do and didn't feel obliged to. I bet her daughter was glad to see you come around... giving her a bit of freedom and fun on her own too... But I couldn't imagine my life as being so entirely independent from a man that I wouldn't enjoy him spending on me to make me happy...  There's just something so much more special and fun about a new pair of shoes or an outfit when he's put some money in my hand with a glint in his eyes and a sly smile on his lips he says, here baby, I love ya, go get yourself something nice...  |
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Currently in touch with a man who told me that I was so different from other women he'd spoken to, and he was pleasantly surprised, and intrigued. If things work out, we're going to meet tomorrow. But the fact that he said that, that he sees me for what and who I am, AND likes it, wow! Awesome news Crystal... I hope everything goes well...  As for the money thing, I agree with what Athena said. If the guy makes the most, then if a couple gets close, I think it's logical that he contributes most as well, even if that means he pays for part/all of the woman's costs. If not, then it could mean you can't be together. And if you're not willing to commit, then don't try to get involved in the first place. I agree with Crystal too... if you're not willing to commit there's no point in getting together... In my case, I have a benefit, which I will lose if I was to move in with a man. That's not my fault, that's the system. So if the guy wouldn't be willing to pay and share, that would be the end of it. Very sore spot for me, cos I got a lot of abuse in that sense from my ex. Same thing, he had an unemployment benefit after losing his job and an inheritance, that was so high that it meant I couldn't get my own benefit. He paid for my keep, but was very angry about it, he didn't like it, by law he had to though. And paying for my keep (food, health insurance) was about it, and gave me a lot of abuse and manipulation. I had literally nothing to spend. Not a single effing euro. My mum helped me with buying clothes, as he didn't and I had nothing. He gave me a lot of shite instead, while it was because of his benefit and inheritance that I couldn't get my own money. So I had to suffer and get all that abuse, while he was the cause of it to begin with. Great! Wow, that sucked! I've never heard anything like this happening. But for the man to be so angry about sharing when that was the law... he was a real dick... and I'm glad you're not with him anymore... I will never ever put myself in that position again, so if I even sense a guy isn't willing to look after me WITHOUT any BS if need be, that's it. I would look after my man too if it was the other way round (and yes, I have been there as well, and I didn't give a toss about it. I just paid for stuff, including clothes, nice dinners, going out etc. Who cares? You love, commit and share or you don't). I agree... especially if I'm married... I don't mind helping out when times are lean so long as he appreciates it and doesn't take me for granted... |
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Damn........deep thread man.
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I would need more than a bit of intimacy before I would feel any duty to supplement a woman's income. My ex girlfriend was used to being independant and bringing her daughter up on her own. If I had tried to give her money she wouldn't have accepted it but looking back on it now, if I had done things like taking her on nice holidays it might have gone better and we might have become more serious. About the closest I got to being a family man there was giving the daughter pocket money when the girlfriend couldn't really afford to. Of course, that got the kid out from under our feet and let us have time alone together when I went round to her place, so it was just something that I wanted to do and didn't feel obliged to. I bet her daughter was glad to see you come around... giving her a bit of freedom and fun on her own too... But I couldn't imagine my life as being so entirely independent from a man that I wouldn't enjoy him spending on me to make me happy... There's just something so much more special and fun about a new pair of shoes or an outfit when he's put some money in my hand with a glint in his eyes and a sly smile on his lips he says, here baby, I love ya, go get yourself something nice... Well, she wasn't high maintenance in that way and she was thrifty and she was happy just being taken out to inexpensive places. I thought that she was a good woman because she was doing what a lot of single mothers do and working to pay for all of the things that her daughter wanted so that the girl could have the same things as her friends. Where that relationship didn't work out it did have quite a lot to do with me not doing enough "romantic" things to make her feel special and she did complain about that anyway. The woman was very difficult though and she wasn't exactly making me feel special either. She never introduced me to the rest of her family, for instance and she didn't want me going to parties with her and she just laughed at me when I tried to suggest things that we could do together. To be fair, at the time I suppose that I was more interested in just spending time alone with a woman and having fun and companionship like that, rather than doing couples things together. I would honestly like it to not be like that for once and to have a proper serious relationship but that does feel like a bit of a pipedream and it does seem to me that all of my relationships have gone wrong when things started to get serious, so I've become more cautious about that now and I don't want to push it with that. The flipside of the whole trying to get closer to a woman and giving her money etc is that a lot of them see that as controlling behaviour or domination. |
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It appears to me, as a person who takes a lot of notice of women (being single), that often women go about relationships perfectly just about coming out of the gate.
But you just can't expect to find right people falling into your lap, it takes years to really find the right person, it has to. You can't just put your hands in a bowl of jellybeans and expect to come out with a blue one, you'll have to look and sift first. At 20 you need the patience to self govern and save jumping full into the deep end until 30 but 20yr olds don't do that. So going about it right, just with the wrong one(s), just impatience. Then, spent like a savings account, you second guess yourself forever, get cynical, "readjust priorities" and look for "something more". From this end it just looks like women are often a lot nicer when they were younger. You didn't do it wrong, you just picked the wrong one(s) to do it right with. Best you can do now is try to clean out any baggage and reinvent yourself not as someone "more evolved", but just mentally undone enough to get your head back to where it was before you started. Then pick better. And throw it all in just like you did when that didn't work out. The lesson is not: don't be a sap or a social victim, be savvy and do for you....because all that really means is be pretentious and judgemental, superficial, arrogant, etc. People rarely see what they beocme. No, the lesson is: be exactly who you were to start with, just pick better. With the right person, whom you actually are was always just right the way you did it. A successful LTR is not about changing who you are, it's about finding the right person for you. |
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But I couldn't imagine my life as being so entirely independent from a man that I wouldn't enjoy him spending on me to make me happy... There's just something so much more special and fun about a new pair of shoes or an outfit when he's put some money in my hand with a glint in his eyes and a sly smile on his lips he says, here baby, I love ya, go get yourself something nice... Well, she wasn't high maintenance in that way and she was thrifty and she was happy just being taken out to inexpensive places. I thought that she was a good woman because she was doing what a lot of single mothers do and working to pay for all of the things that her daughter wanted so that the girl could have the same things as her friends. Hey now... I never said anything about high maintenance... cause I'm the type of woman that likes to get the most for my money and his too... more often than not I'd buy for both of us and I'd wait until end of season and two for one sales... or I'd find a bargain online and have it shipped to our door... I'm a miser at heart and like to keep things simple but seasonal... living in the country we could wear last seasons the next year and nobody paid attention. And if I like something well enough I'll wear it for years if it holds up that long...  It's more the thought that he'd let me spend my money on me and his money on me too... but he knew how frugal I am and he would make sure to emphasis a better quality if he's was doing the buying...  I would honestly like it to not be like that for once and to have a proper serious relationship but that does feel like a bit of a pipedream and it does seem to me that all of my relationships have gone wrong when things started to get serious, so I've become more cautious about that now and I don't want to push it with that. The flipside of the whole trying to get closer to a woman and giving her money etc is that a lot of them see that as controlling behaviour or domination. I too hope you get to experience a connection in which you're both focused on making each other happy through the give and take and give aspects... to be so close to someone that it makes you happy to see them happy is a rewarding experience in and of itself... Yes, I can see it feeling like a controlling or dominating situation if the man put stipulations on his support. |
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It appears to me, as a person who takes a lot of notice of women (being single), that often women go about relationships perfectly just about coming out of the gate. But you just can't expect to find right people falling into your lap, it takes years to really find the right person, it has to. You can't just put your hands in a bowl of jellybeans and expect to come out with a blue one, you'll have to look and sift first. At 20 you need the patience to self govern and save jumping full into the deep end until 30 but 20yr olds don't do that. So going about it right, just with the wrong one(s), just impatience. Then, spent like a savings account, you second guess yourself forever, get cynical, "readjust priorities" and look for "something more". From this end it just looks like women are often a lot nicer when they were younger. You didn't do it wrong, you just picked the wrong one(s) to do it right with. Best you can do now is try to clean out any baggage and reinvent yourself not as someone "more evolved", but just mentally undone enough to get your head back to where it was before you started. Then pick better. And throw it all in just like you did when that didn't work out. The lesson is not: don't be a sap or a social victim, be savvy and do for you....because all that really means is be pretentious and judgemental, superficial, arrogant, etc. People rarely see what they beocme. No, the lesson is: be exactly who you were to start with, just pick better. With the right person, whom you actually are was always just right the way you did it. A successful LTR is not about changing who you are, it's about finding the right person for you. Every single man I've ever been with approached me first and courted me until I said yes. When I was young I could turn their heads and they didn't want me to leave when I was ready to go. Now that I'm old the men in my community don't approach me to court me because my looks don't attract them anymore. So I'm SOL when it pertains to "finding" a man because they aren't looking at/for me and I will never chase after them. I wish it was as simple as "picking better" because that would indicate there was actually a selection to choose from. |
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Edited by
SparklingCrystal 💖💎
on
Fri 05/30/14 04:03 PM
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It appears to me, as a person who takes a lot of notice of women (being single), that often women go about relationships perfectly just about coming out of the gate. But you just can't expect to find right people falling into your lap, it takes years to really find the right person, it has to. You can't just put your hands in a bowl of jellybeans and expect to come out with a blue one, you'll have to look and sift first. At 20 you need the patience to self govern and save jumping full into the deep end until 30 but 20yr olds don't do that. So going about it right, just with the wrong one(s), just impatience. Then, spent like a savings account, you second guess yourself forever, get cynical, "readjust priorities" and look for "something more". From this end it just looks like women are often a lot nicer when they were younger. You didn't do it wrong, you just picked the wrong one(s) to do it right with. Best you can do now is try to clean out any baggage and reinvent yourself not as someone "more evolved", but just mentally undone enough to get your head back to where it was before you started. Then pick better. And throw it all in just like you did when that didn't work out. The lesson is not: don't be a sap or a social victim, be savvy and do for you....because all that really means is be pretentious and judgemental, superficial, arrogant, etc. People rarely see what they beocme. No, the lesson is: be exactly who you were to start with, just pick better. With the right person, whom you actually are was always just right the way you did it. A successful LTR is not about changing who you are, it's about finding the right person for you. Every single man I've ever been with approached me first and courted me until I said yes. When I was young I could turn their heads and they didn't want me to leave when I was ready to go. Now that I'm old the men in my community don't approach me to court me because my looks don't attract them anymore. So I'm SOL when it pertains to "finding" a man because they aren't looking at/for me and I will never chase after them. I wish it was as simple as "picking better" because that would indicate there was actually a selection to choose from. What do you mean old? You're 52 for crying out loud? And just checked you're profile, you look good, nothing wrong with you! And sure you're not 21, so what? You're not looking for a 21 yr old yourself I take it, and from what I can tell from your piccies, you're an attractive woman. Don't go knocking yourself! And thanks for your reaction,  indeed my ex was an @$$hole. He was a narcissist, who are mostly about using and abusing etc. Was no ride in the park. Made me so much stronger, but this money thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I really won't easily give up on my own home and income (benefit) to become completely dependent on a bloke again! I always find it kind of peculiar how most men are perfectly okay about taking care of their first wife/partner, but never again when it comes to a second wife/partner? As if the 2nd one is worth less than the first. I mean, what's the difference? As a second spouse you're supposed to do everything yourself. What happened to sharing and caring, which they did do with the first one? If I'm worth less to a man than the first wife, EF it! |
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I only do crazy, I'm afraid.
It always ends up that way. . Mum: If you stop looking, you'll find him. Me: If I stop looking, I'll end up with crazy ;). Turns out I'm right, every time. |
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.. I don't know I'm still looking for that perfect fit.. but I do know what I don't want.. and that's why it is probably taking so long to find that perfect fit..hmm.. fools rush in..
. and that may have been me in the past... but a fool no more am I.. |
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But I couldn't imagine my life as being so entirely independent from a man that I wouldn't enjoy him spending on me to make me happy... There's just something so much more special and fun about a new pair of shoes or an outfit when he's put some money in my hand with a glint in his eyes and a sly smile on his lips he says, here baby, I love ya, go get yourself something nice... Well, she wasn't high maintenance in that way and she was thrifty and she was happy just being taken out to inexpensive places. I thought that she was a good woman because she was doing what a lot of single mothers do and working to pay for all of the things that her daughter wanted so that the girl could have the same things as her friends. Hey now... I never said anything about high maintenance... cause I'm the type of woman that likes to get the most for my money and his too... more often than not I'd buy for both of us and I'd wait until end of season and two for one sales... or I'd find a bargain online and have it shipped to our door... I'm a miser at heart and like to keep things simple but seasonal... living in the country we could wear last seasons the next year and nobody paid attention. And if I like something well enough I'll wear it for years if it holds up that long... It's more the thought that he'd let me spend my money on me and his money on me too... but he knew how frugal I am and he would make sure to emphasis a better quality if he's was doing the buying... I would honestly like it to not be like that for once and to have a proper serious relationship but that does feel like a bit of a pipedream and it does seem to me that all of my relationships have gone wrong when things started to get serious, so I've become more cautious about that now and I don't want to push it with that. The flipside of the whole trying to get closer to a woman and giving her money etc is that a lot of them see that as controlling behaviour or domination. I too hope you get to experience a connection in which you're both focused on making each other happy through the give and take and give aspects... to be so close to someone that it makes you happy to see them happy is a rewarding experience in and of itself... Yes, I can see it feeling like a controlling or dominating situation if the man put stipulations on his support. Oh, you don't even have to put stipulations on it with some of them. Women with trust issues are paranoid. That's all that I've really had since I finally got to an age where I felt ready for a proper relationship. Complicated women with baggage and issues. Stuff that I didn't cause and isn't my fault but I have to deal with it. Going back to the stipulation thing though, I try not to be demanding with women but I do believe in honesty and telling them how I'm feeling. If there's some sort of problem I'll at least want to talk about it. If we can't do that, then we haven't really got a relationship. Then I get all of this jazz about how I'm trying to change, dominate, or control them when all that it is is just trying to communicate and get closer to them. |
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What do you mean old? You're 52 for crying out loud? And just checked you're profile, you look good, nothing wrong with you! And sure you're not 21, so what? You're not looking for a 21 yr old yourself I take it, and from what I can tell from your piccies, you're an attractive woman. Don't go knocking yourself! And thanks for your reaction, indeed my ex was an @$$hole. He was a narcissist, who are mostly about using and abusing etc. Was no ride in the park. Made me so much stronger, but this money thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I really won't easily give up on my own home and income (benefit) to become completely dependent on a bloke again! I always find it kind of peculiar how most men are perfectly okay about taking care of their first wife/partner, but never again when it comes to a second wife/partner? As if the 2nd one is worth less than the first. I mean, what's the difference? As a second spouse you're supposed to do everything yourself. What happened to sharing and caring, which they did do with the first one? If I'm worth less to a man than the first wife, EF it! 52 in dog years maybe... that means you x by 7... which makes me 364... and I felt/feel every minute of the journey... You're absolutely too kind in your compliments I wasn't fishing for... but appreciate.. I'm not knocking myself, just facing my reality, what with my age, physical and financial limitations I'm not the complete package most guys are looking for to score anymore.  I hate to hear about good women being abused by stupid men that don't know what they have until it's gone... but it tickles me to know when women learn how to become stronger from experiences so the same mistakes are NOT repeated. And you definitely hit a sore spot with me too, about how every woman after the first is treated like a second class citizen if the first was treated so well. Because men actually do carry over their emotional baggage too and punish all women they perceive to be in any negative way like experiences they learned the hard way from already. IMO. Like yourself, I too will never willingly give up my tiny slice of independent pie to become entwined with another man that wouldn't value my sacrifice equally with his attention and support.
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Those of us who've loved, left and/or lost tend to look for something different than we had the first time that afforded us the opportunity of learning from our mistakes. Originally we "may" have chosen a partner for some level of security and co-dependence. Then when the coupling of feelings and assets no longer allowed us to feel appreciated and/or wanted we mutually moved on. The next time around if we don't need emotional or fiscal security we "may" decide to wait until someone comfortably fits within the world we've created for ourselves before making a commitment to become exclusive. What if anything would you desire from your second partner and/or relationship that may have been lacking or needed tweaking in the first union? Athena I do not want to play the blame game with my ex. My short comings where just as bad as hers there was not a " villain" in my case just 2 people that grew apart. I like your phrase " comfortably fits" That's where I am at right now. 
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I only do crazy, I'm afraid. It always ends up that way. . Mum: If you stop looking, you'll find him. Me: If I stop looking, I'll end up with crazy ;). Turns out I'm right, every time.  I love a good woman who knows her own mind... and isn't afraid to scramble her eggs with a little crazy..  Somehow with a pinch of this and a dash of that when all is said and done it is possible to connect on many different levels so we each can enjoy a happy meal together.
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Edited by
AthenaRose2
on
Sat 05/31/14 02:55 AM
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Accepting that life and its prime opportunities have already passed me by makes it easier to live simply with what is. I make this blanket statement not directed at men and my single status but my overall life experience in business to date. Being alone is the very least of my concerns when I face lifelong adversaries intent on doing me real harm, physically and financially every single day. And it's hard enough to deal with these types and their malicious intent on my own, let alone expecting a man to want to step in and endure this travesty with me. Whoa! This is just another phase of life. Enjoy it and enjoy the new people you meet. Its not over yet. Im still optimistic. Im happy with where Ive allowed life to take me and Im excited about every new chapter. Im sure men are out there doing the same. Didnt mean to make it sound like it was for poo. Please believe me when I say there's nothing to enjoy about the phase I'm currently going through with those who strive to make my way much harder while depriving me of my quality of life. However... because I have faith in a higher power I don't allow my struggles with those who steadfastly work to ensure my detriment to hamper and/or dampen my spirit. And I can thank my life of hard knocks that taught me things could always be worse than they are now, so I look for the silver lining in everything with a positive attitude. Believe it or not... Mingle2 is one of the silver linings I see because it affords me the opportunity to even momentarily escape my reality and enjoy the time I spend getting to know the hearts and minds of others who share their thoughts about life and its many issues from their own perspectives too. 
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Every single man I've ever been with approached me first and courted me until I said yes. When I was young I could turn their heads and they didn't want me to leave when I was ready to go. Yes, they like pretty, but they also like young, healthy and independent because even if they don't want to verbally admit it men also want a woman they can rely on for certain things too. |
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As for the money thing, I agree with what Athena said. If the guy makes the most, then if a couple gets close, I think it's logical that he contributes most as well, even if that means he pays for part/all of the woman's costs. If not, then it could mean you can't be together. And if you're not willing to commit, then don't try to get involved in the first place. Very fair sounding. Strikes me as odd that it would be such rigid accounting, but whatever works. Sometimes rigid accounting is the only way to keep things fair. Like when I used my credit ability to finance my ex's wants and needs but only if he paid the complete charge for himself. Which turned out to be an extremely stupid move on my part when in the divorce he agreed to pay off his debts in my name only to change his mind later and ruin me financially when he stopped paying after meeting other women he wanted to spend his money on instead. |
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.. I don't know I'm still looking for that perfect fit.. but I do know what I don't want.. and that's why it is probably taking so long to find that perfect fit..hmm.. fools rush in.. . and that may have been me in the past... but a fool no more am I.. 8574 posts since 01/07/14... no... you're definitely NOT rushing in... but with your sharp wit and attention to detail I bet it will be just a matter of patience before you capture the attention and affection of the one you hone in on...
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Edited by
AthenaRose2
on
Sat 05/31/14 03:53 AM
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Oh, you don't even have to put stipulations on it with some of them. Women with trust issues are paranoid. That's all that I've really had since I finally got to an age where I felt ready for a proper relationship. Complicated women with baggage and issues. Stuff that I didn't cause and isn't my fault but I have to deal with it. Going back to the stipulation thing though, I try not to be demanding with women but I do believe in honesty and telling them how I'm feeling. If there's some sort of problem I'll at least want to talk about it. If we can't do that, then we haven't really got a relationship. Then I get all of this jazz about how I'm trying to change, dominate, or control them when all that it is is just trying to communicate and get closer to them. Do you really think women are genuinely paranoid, or just sensitive to the pain of rejection they've already felt and put up walls so as not to feel it to the same extent again? Men are just as complicated as they subconsciously hang on to the baggage that helped to shape their view of women too. While men have the natural aura they're gifted as a birthright to be the dominating factor in couplings, and we women can easily misconstrue their intent if they are NOT as honest, open and forthright as you say you are. I know that men often times don't like to do a lot of talking and simple explaining after giving initial instructions, instead they expect we women to have mind reading capabilities. And if we don't follow their original wishes to the letter they're attitudes and tones in their follow up speech makes their possible agitation extremely clear... and to which we might become easily defensive. Something tells me that you are a sincere man with the women you care for and do try to communicate openly with them, just as you and your mom talk about problems as you try to figure out how to best deal with them together. You know they do say that you can tell a lot about a man by his relationship with his mother... It's just that maybe in the way you've learned how to be direct while being helpful you come across as the strong and aggressive man your mom loves and needs to rely on to sort through family issues, but that the women in your life might feel a bit less directed if you infused a little more neutral sensitivity while explaining their weakness or things you both could work on to aid your relationship to run more smoothly? I'm just pondering... not critiquing... |
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Edited by
SparklingCrystal 💖💎
on
Sat 05/31/14 03:51 AM
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What do you mean old? You're 52 for crying out loud? And just checked you're profile, you look good, nothing wrong with you! And sure you're not 21, so what? You're not looking for a 21 yr old yourself I take it, and from what I can tell from your piccies, you're an attractive woman. Don't go knocking yourself! And thanks for your reaction, indeed my ex was an @$$hole. He was a narcissist, who are mostly about using and abusing etc. Was no ride in the park. Made me so much stronger, but this money thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I really won't easily give up on my own home and income (benefit) to become completely dependent on a bloke again! I always find it kind of peculiar how most men are perfectly okay about taking care of their first wife/partner, but never again when it comes to a second wife/partner? As if the 2nd one is worth less than the first. I mean, what's the difference? As a second spouse you're supposed to do everything yourself. What happened to sharing and caring, which they did do with the first one? If I'm worth less to a man than the first wife, EF it! 52 in dog years maybe... that means you x by 7... which makes me 364... and I felt/feel every minute of the journey... You're absolutely too kind in your compliments I wasn't fishing for... but appreciate.. I'm not knocking myself, just facing my reality, what with my age, physical and financial limitations I'm not the complete package most guys are looking for to score anymore. I hate to hear about good women being abused by stupid men that don't know what they have until it's gone... but it tickles me to know when women learn how to become stronger from experiences so the same mistakes are NOT repeated. And you definitely hit a sore spot with me too, about how every woman after the first is treated like a second class citizen if the first was treated so well. Because men actually do carry over their emotional baggage too and punish all women they perceive to be in any negative way like experiences they learned the hard way from already. IMO. Like yourself, I too will never willingly give up my tiny slice of independent pie to become entwined with another man that wouldn't value my sacrifice equally with his attention and support. Totally agree! Also don't agree with I believe Vanaheim, who says women 'punish' men for what a previous partner has done to them. Sure it will happen but I think the other way around is more common. To me a new partner is never less than the first one, just different, a new chance at happiness together. And sure, everyone gets scarred during life, nothing much you can do about that. But you have to at least be willing to be open and give a new person a chance. Based on what I hear and read from men, is that many, if not most, haven't got this attitude, are still bitter about an ex and project this on other women. And it takes two to tango, so if a woman is awkward about things, it's because a man hurt her real bad. It all comes down to the ability to accept, let go and open your heart again for someone new, in spite of scars.d And I feel women in general are a he|| of a lot better at that than men. Athena, I too have physical problems due to hyper-laxity, little money cos of a benefit and slim chances of getting a job because I live in backwater country and the crisis is still taking it's toll over here. Still lots of ppl losing jobs and companies going bust. I do, however, not feel I'm not a 'complete' package. I've never been a better 'package' to be honest, haha. Just cos I finally know who I am, what I stand for etc. I'm empowered. And I will not sell myself short. If a man doesn't value me for what I am, he's not even worth my time and defo not the right one for me! I want a guy who sees, feels and senses beyond 'flaws', as a guy our age will have flaws himself too. He might have a job, doesn't mean he's God's gift to women (anymore). |
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