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Topic: Philosophy
Jaystune's photo
Sun 05/11/14 12:39 AM
Since laws are products emerging from the interests of law makers, then where lie the interests of common-men in the society ?

Winlei's photo
Mon 05/12/14 01:12 AM
Interest? No, i believe that everyone lies according to reasons but it being an interest is an exaggerated thought. What do you mean by "common-men"(poor, middle-class)?

Dodo_David's photo
Mon 05/12/14 06:54 PM

Since laws are products emerging from the interests of law makers, then where lie the interests of common-men in the society ?


Your question assumes something that has not been proven, that the interests of the law-makers are somehow contrary to the interests of common people.

no1phD's photo
Mon 05/12/14 07:43 PM
are we talking about the same people! that drafted up the..Ten Commandments.
.laugh

TawtStrat's photo
Tue 05/13/14 04:12 AM
Rousseau draws a distinction between what he calls "the general will" and any particular will of individuals or factions. According to him, a rational person will realise that his particular will should be in line with the general will because what is good for everybody should supposedly be also good for every individual and we discover what the general will is by voting. An analogy is everyone having to drive on the same side of the road. Rousseau is a little vague on the distinction between sovereign and government though. For him, the government just administrates the laws, while it is the sovereign people that express the general will.

TBRich's photo
Wed 05/14/14 04:11 PM
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is the smile on a dog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow waters
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are, or?

Oh, I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is a walk on the slippery rocks
Religion is a light in the fog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 05/15/14 09:30 AM

Rousseau draws a distinction between what he calls "the general will" and any particular will of individuals or factions. According to him, a rational person will realise that his particular will should be in line with the general will because what is good for everybody should supposedly be also good for every individual and we discover what the general will is by voting. An analogy is everyone having to drive on the same side of the road. Rousseau is a little vague on the distinction between sovereign and government though. For him, the government just administrates the laws, while it is the sovereign people that express the general will.


Yep,he was a consummate Tribalist,or should I say Collectivist?

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/15/14 09:50 AM

I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is the smile on a dog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow waters
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are, or?

Oh, I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is a walk on the slippery rocks
Religion is a light in the fog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?




lol, I was honestly going to quote this song when I read the title,lol


anyhow, I agree with Dodo, there is a false assumption that 'government' and 'pople' are different

the government includes PEOPLE who work in it and the people who vote them into government and the people who hire them into government jobs

they are all 'the people',, cant really be divided honestly

imho

Dodo_David's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:06 AM


I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is the smile on a dog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow waters
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are, or?

Oh, I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is a walk on the slippery rocks
Religion is a light in the fog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?




lol, I was honestly going to quote this song when I read the title,lol


anyhow, I agree with Dodo, there is a false assumption that 'government' and 'pople' are different

the government includes PEOPLE who work in it and the people who vote them into government and the people who hire them into government jobs

they are all 'the people',, cant really be divided honestly

imho


Yeah. People who are in the minority on a particular issue will complain when elected officials side with the people who are in the majority on the same issue.

It isn't that politicians don't represent the people. It is that politicians represent the majority of the people.

When the minority don't get their way, they make false accusations against the politicians, instead of acknowledging that the minority are the minority.

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:20 AM
ID add

ideally, politicians should represent 'their' people
for a state senator that means people of their state, majority and minority
for a federal politician, that means people of the states, majority and minority


because sometimes what is the 'majority' view isn't the right or just or fair view,,,,,




realistically, politicians will represent their own interests as well as the interests of those who elect them to or keep them in office,,,



Dodo_David's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:37 AM

realistically, politicians will represent their own interests as well as the interests of those who elect them to or keep them in office,,,


Since the majority elected those politicians, it is in the interest of the politicians to vote according to the desires of the majority.
The exception to that rule - in the USA at least - is that politicians should not side with the majority when the majority wants something that is unconstitutional.

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:38 AM
Edited by msharmony on Thu 05/15/14 11:39 AM
yes, that's where politicians represent their own interests

though Im pretty sure they vow to represent 'the people of...'

the town or the city, or the state or united states, or whatever geographical area they are elected in,,,and not 'the people who voted for me'


:tongue:

Dodo_David's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:43 AM

yes, that's where politicians represent their own interests

though Im pretty sure they vow to represent 'the people of...'

the town or the city, or the state or united states, or whatever geographical area they are elected in,,,and not 'the people who voted for me'


:tongue:


Tell that to the members of the congressional black caucus.
They are supposed to represent all people of their districts, not just the black people of their districts.

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/15/14 11:50 AM
not actually, in their role as us congresspersons they represent the people

as their SEPERATE role in the CBC is

""positively influencing the course of events pertinent to African-Americans and others of similar experience and situation", and "achieving greater equity for persons of African descent in the design and content of domestic and international programs and services"

despite the name it is a separate 'organization', not funded by American taxpayers in general but by contributions from supporters,,,

willing2's photo
Thu 05/15/14 12:51 PM
Most politicians represent two things. Thier own self preservation and whoever offers the highest bribe.

no photo
Fri 05/16/14 12:31 PM



I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is the smile on a dog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow waters
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are, or?

Oh, I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean
Philosophy is a walk on the slippery rocks
Religion is a light in the fog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep

What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?
What I am is what I am
Are you what you are or what?




lol, I was honestly going to quote this song when I read the title,lol


anyhow, I agree with Dodo, there is a false assumption that 'government' and 'pople' are different

the government includes PEOPLE who work in it and the people who vote them into government and the people who hire them into government jobs

they are all 'the people',, cant really be divided honestly

imho


Yeah. People who are in the minority on a particular issue will complain when elected officials side with the people who are in the majority on the same issue.

It isn't that politicians don't represent the people. It is that politicians represent the majority of the people.

When the minority don't get their way, they make false accusations against the politicians, instead of acknowledging that the minority are the minority.


Complete BS unless you are in some other country, like England. Your analysis is sheeple control, an inherent trait of a democracy. Thank god our founders gave us a republic where the non-sheeple care less what majorities or minorities do, it don't apply to us.

no photo
Fri 05/16/14 01:08 PM

Since laws are products emerging from the interests of law makers, then where lie the interests of common-men in the society ?


First, just where is a philosophy? If you want philosophy you first need to understand definitions and clearly state something that can even half deemed to be philosophical.

You could start with the definition of law:


(uncountable) The body of rules and standards issued by a government, or to be applied by courts and similar authorities.

(sciences, strictly) A well-established, observed physical characteristic or behavior of nature. The word is used to simply identify "what happens," without implying any explanatory mechanism or causation.

Black's Law Dictionary, Revised 4th Edition, 1968.
LAW. That which is laid down, ordained, or established. A rule or method according to which phenomena or actions co-exist or follow each other. That which must be obeyed and followed by citizens, subject to sanctions or legal consequences, is a "law." Koenig v. Flynn, 258 N.Y. 292, 179 N.E. 705.
In old English jurisprudence, "law" is used to signify an oath, or the privilege of being sworn; as in the, phrases "to wage one's law," "to lose one's law."
The term is also used in opposition to "fact." Thus questions of law are to be decided by the court, while it is the province of the jury to solve questions of fact.


So if one where to look at these definitions, what conclusions would be drawn? So in both science and law we have a strict sense of law which can be best stated: an existing condition which is binding and immutable such as the laws of nature.

Then we have that secular religion called "the law" which poses to distort the true meaning, not only to misinform but to instill some sense of authority that does not exist. Therefore, lawmakers do not exist, there is but legislators that pass rules, regulation, statutes, codes and prohibitions according to the rule of man. They cannot be laws because they are not binding and can be circumvented. They are not immutable as they may change at a moments notice depending to that which assumes power and claims it their right.

Therein lie the interest of common-men, will they remain ignorant, choosing to ignore the truth or will they embrace the truth and become free. There is but one law, the law of the nature, the creator. A law that can be ignored but never muted. Those that ignore are bound to suffer it's consequences.

no photo
Fri 05/16/14 01:19 PM


Since laws are products emerging from the interests of law makers, then where lie the interests of common-men in the society ?


Your question assumes something that has not been proven, that the interests of the law-makers are somehow contrary to the interests of common people.


Only in the closed minds of those that choose to ignore the truth, ignorance. The only interest of legislators is contrary to the interest of men, period. Their entire interest is to use coercion and violence to instill their illusion of reality on another.


There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what is not true, the other is to refuse to accept what is true.
-Soren Kierkegaard


And it seems that some can be twice fooled in the same instant.

no photo
Fri 05/16/14 01:23 PM

are we talking about the same people! that drafted up the..Ten Commandments.
.laugh


Ten commandments, nice concept but overstated. There really need be only one commandment, DO NOT STEAL. If you look closely you will find the other nine fit nicely within that package, i.e. do not take another's life, a theft of the highest order. Oh, by the way that commandment is not do not kill but do not murder.

TBRich's photo
Fri 05/16/14 01:24 PM
The agenda is to make America a Meritocracy/Theocracy. Ref.- Republican Gomorrah ny Max Blumenthal

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