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| Topic: What is real Christianity???? | |
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Christianity isn't about "us vs. them". What I see in this thread is a distortion of the Christian faith being presented by non-Christians. Christians have been distorting the meaning of Christianity for centuries. I think it is time for non-Christians to figure it out for them since they haven't been able to. |
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Christianity isn't about "us vs. them". What I see in this thread is a distortion of the Christian faith being presented by non-Christians. Christians have been distorting the meaning of Christianity for centuries. I think it is time for non-Christians to figure it out for them since they haven't been able to. I think it's time to drop the fecking labels.. 
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Edited by
Dodo_David
on
Fri 11/22/13 04:01 PM
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Christians believe that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact and that the resurrection verifies that Jesus is God-incarnate, the Creator of the heavens and the earth. Now if Jesus is indeed God, then Jesus is the ultimate authority on how to have eternal life (a.k.a. how to go to Heaven).
In John 14:6 Jesus said, "��I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Now if what Jesus said is true, then other faiths are not alternate paths to God. To deny what Jesus said is to deny the Christian faith altogether. Still, people who are Christians need to guard against presenting their faith in a way that is unnecessarily abrasive. Abrasiveness is what gives people the impression that Christians are hateful. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 11/22/13 04:08 PM
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I am aware of what most Christians believe. (Or are told they must believe, or claim to believe.)
But if you skip over all those "IFs" and stories and look at what Jesus was supposed to have been trying to TEACH people, I think that is where you will find true Christianity. And that is what is important. Take the path of Love and Compassion. Do everything in the name of Love and Compassion, and have no fear. That is the message of Jesus. The rest is Church dogma, and rules about what Christians are "supposed to believe." If they believe these things, and they are not leading lives of Love and compassion, then they have missed the boat and the message. |
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In John 14:6 Jesus said, "��I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Now if what Jesus said is true, then other faiths are not alternate paths to God. To deny what Jesus said is to deny the Christian faith altogether. The interpretation of this verse by Christians is all wrong. They think it means that in order to get to "the father" they must profess that they accept and believe that Jesus is their savior. That is not what this passage means at all. If Jesus said this, as the voice of God, and if "God" is "Love" then that is what this means. Love is the way, the truth and the Life. No one comes to the father except through Love. "God is love." If Jesus is God, and God is Love then Jesus is love. LOVE is the way. Jesus was a man and if he was God then he spoke for God and if God is Love then he spoke for love. Don't worship the man. If you worship Jesus the man then you worship false idols. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 11/22/13 04:35 PM
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In John 14:6 Jesus said, "��I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Now if what Jesus said is true, then other faiths are not alternate paths to God. To deny what Jesus said is to deny the Christian faith altogether. Besides, how do you go "through" Jesus? Explain that. I can go through a door, I can go through a storm, through space, but through a man? But it does not make any sense to "go through" a man that has been dead 2000 years. So if you can't go through the man Jesus, then what does that mean? I think it means through his teachings. "To love thy neighbor as thyself. To love your enemy." TO LOVE. Go ahead. Tell me I am wrong. Tell me something that makes sense. |
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Go ahead. Tell me I am wrong. Tell me something that makes sense. You are not wrong. If religion made sense it would not be religion, it would be knowledge, it would be verifiable, it would not require "faith" (believing what you are told without evidence that it is true or accurate). |
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A word for genuine christians here.You cant stop unbelievers from forming wrong opinions about God,Jesus,the Bible,etc.But do not aid and abet their opinion.Its prayers that can change a lond-cherished believes and opinions of non believers,not arguement only
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 11/24/13 08:55 AM
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A word for genuine christians here.You cant stop unbelievers from forming wrong opinions about God,Jesus,the Bible,etc.But do not aid and abet their opinion.Its prayers that can change a lond-cherished believes and opinions of non believers,not arguement only A word about discussion with "believers." They won't (and can't) discuss these subjects rationally because they believe in irrational myths. Your prayers cannot change the opinions of rational intelligent people. Even if you believe they could, to pray for something like that is akin to black magic and would be interfering with another person's free will. So stop praying for other people to believe as you do. I have discussions with scientists, atheists, and the religious theists and I ask them for evidence and for a rational reason for their assumptions and beliefs because I want to know why the believe what they believe. They don't really know so they refuse to discuss it, or they quote from their authorities like Einstein or The Bible because they can't find the reason or the words. I have questioned both sides. There are gigantic flaws in the reasoning on both sides. The scientific atheists will imply that I am ignorant and uneducated and that is why I don't agree with their conclusions. -The end The religious theists claim that no one can see the truth until they take the Lord Jesus into their heart. -The end. What a bunch of B.S. Nobody wants to try to discuss the hard questions with reason and rationality, including scientists who believe that we evolved from an inanimate, unconscious, unaware, unintelligent substance, but have no idea how or where Life and consciousness suddenly began. Theist just say "God did it" end of story. |
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Go ahead. Tell me I am wrong. Tell me something that makes sense. You are not wrong. If religion made sense it would not be religion, it would be knowledge, it would be verifiable, it would not require "faith" (believing what you are told without evidence that it is true or accurate). When religion uses the word "faith" that is what they are doing. Trusting in the word of their Bible or their religious authority or priest, minister etc. But that is not how I use the word faith. For me, faith is accepting what is, (no matter what). It is a feeling of serenity that all is as it should be according to universal law. This serenity has no need to agree with the Religions or the scientists. I place my faith in the truth where ever it lies even if I don't know what it is. |
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Edited by
JohnDavidDavid
on
Sun 11/24/13 10:18 AM
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For me, faith is accepting what is, (no matter what). Well said. I use the term "realism" for accepting what is. Your prayers cannot change the opinions of rational intelligent people. Even if you believe they could, to pray for something like that is akin to black magic and would be interfering with another person's free will. So stop praying for other people to believe as you do. Well said again. Prayer is a form of wishing --�� and produces no more effect than chance alone. However, those who pray for divine (or other) interference with the lives of others must assume that they know more about what is best than the person directly involved. How presumptuous (and ignorant). |
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For me, faith is accepting what is, (no matter what). Well said. I use the term "realism" for accepting what is. Your prayers cannot change the opinions of rational intelligent people. Even if you believe they could, to pray for something like that is akin to black magic and would be interfering with another person's free will. So stop praying for other people to believe as you do. Well said again. Prayer is a form of wishing --�� and produces no more effect than chance alone. However, those who pray for divine (or other) interference with the lives of others must assume that they know more about what is best than the person directly involved. How presumptuous (and ignorant). Exactly.  |
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Saul was an unbeliever, he persecuted many believers and when he was on his way to Damascus God arrested him. He was renamed 'Paul' after God had arrested him. And Paul was a radical evangelist and he wrote many inspiring books.
Once an unbeliever is converted, he'd be hotter than those that had being serving God for years and could win thousands and thousands of souls for God. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 11/24/13 12:34 PM
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Christians believe that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact and that the resurrection verifies that Jesus is God-incarnate, the Creator of the heavens and the earth. Now if Jesus is indeed God, then Jesus is the ultimate authority on how to have eternal life (a.k.a. how to go to Heaven). In John 14:6 Jesus said, "��I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Now if what Jesus said is true, then other faiths are not alternate paths to God. To deny what Jesus said is to deny the Christian faith altogether. Still, people who are Christians need to guard against presenting their faith in a way that is unnecessarily abrasive. Abrasiveness is what gives people the impression that Christians are hateful. I don't think Christ was a respecter of labels of 'faith ,, faith is faith whatever label is put upon it I believe Christ is the gatekeeper to God,, it will be his decision who gets to the father,, beyond that I don't necessarily believe he makes that choice based upon what faith one professes to be as much as how closely they lived his life in the manner he left as the example,,,, just as many will call his name that he doesn't know,, I believe the alternate, that many who may no publicly or openly call his name know him very well and he them,,, |
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I am also not impressed by the horrible reputation of Saul as apposed to Paul, nor am I impressed by his alleged transformation. He went from persecuting believers to persecuting non believers. He was a murderer and a fanatic.
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Is it what we see from the Jim Bakers, or Jimmy Swaggarts of TV fame or is it from the exploits of people like Billy and Franklin Graham (both of whom I have met), or Mother Theresa. Everything good can be corrupted and will be. There is a saying about not throwing the baby out with the bath water. That is definitely relevant today. The practicing of true christianity does not threaten anyone or anything. What are the two most basic principles taught by Christ? Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and strength. The other part of that is to love your neighbor as yourself. Please, anyone tell me the evil in that. Yes, terrible things have happened over the centuries in the name of Christianity. None of those things were taught by Jesus or any of the inscribers of the Bible. If I go on a killing spree and scream that I am doing this in the name of McDonalds, does that mean we condemn McDonalds? I am no fan of McDonalds but that is a preference not a condemnation. All I ask is that you have an open mind and heart. Be critical in your thinking and examine facts. I did for about 27 years before I finally realized that there is a God, He does love me, and I have a place reserved at His table. Am I perfect? Yeah right and I am also the King of Spain, and a world class athelete. I will say this again at the expense of being obtuse. If you are right and Christians are wrong what have we lost? If, on the other hand, Christians are right and you are wrong what have you lost?     This is the longest theological bulls h i t i've ever read besides the bible.Again you're going with the Pascals Wager crap.What do you have to lose?I don't know maybe you pick the wrong faith and Allah sends you to hell. Won't happen cause it's all mythology so really no one has anything to lose except existence when they are gone. |
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OK this my last post on this. If you ar right and I am wrong, then I Have lost nothing. Now let's reverse that and ask what have you lost?
Billy Graham once said we as Christians must spread the Gospel. Sometimes with words. |
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If you are right and Christians are wrong what have we lost? If, on the other hand, Christians are right and you are wrong what have you lost? What have Christians lost by worshiping the "god" of Judaism (and sidekick)? They forfeit the opportunity to worship one or more of the other two thousand plus "gods" proposed, worshiped, feared, loved by humans. Even if one of the "gods" actually exists, choosing the right one among the 2000+ (all with lack of verifiable evidence), has a half a percent chance of being right and a 99.5% chance of choosing the wrong "god." Christians also lose the opportunity to live free of guilt and fear associated with "breaking god's rules" (as stated by clerics claiming to know the "will of god"). Pascal's Wager and its variations are extremely weak arguments to justify Christianity -- but perhaps the best available. |
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If you are right and I am wrong, then I Have lost nothing. Now let's reverse that and ask what have you lost? Your question above is a subtle manipulation because it is suggestive of the penalty that the church/Bible has set up for those who do not believe their particular dogma. ("If you don't believe... bad things will happen.) This promise (of eternal agony in hell or death) derives its power from fear. Fear is the opposite of love so it is contrary to the true teachings of Jesus therefore I believe it is not true. Choosing Christianity just because you are afraid of the consequences for not choosing it is letting yourself be manipulated by fear. That is one of the many reasons I am not worried about being 'wrong.' |
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In John 14:6 Jesus said, "��I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Now if what Jesus said is true, then other faiths are not alternate paths to God. To deny what Jesus said is to deny the Christian faith altogether. Besides, how do you go "through" Jesus? Explain that. I can go through a door, I can go through a storm, through space, but through a man? But it does not make any sense to "go through" a man that has been dead 2000 years. So if you can't go through the man Jesus, then what does that mean? I think it means through his teachings. "To love thy neighbor as thyself. To love your enemy." TO LOVE. Go ahead. Tell me I am wrong. Tell me something that makes sense. This is all over the NT because of the changing of names. Yahshua is the Messiah's name. Yahshua means Yahweh saves or Yahweh is salvation. Yahshua faith and his obeying of the Torah Yahweh granted all men salvation. How do you go through Yahshua to the Father. Because Yahweh granted all things in Heaven and earth as his. Yet Yahweh is and always has been the one to grant Salvation. Yahshua's name points to this. This is like a soldier who by the name of the USA being granted permission to a base. U become an Ambassador of Yahweh when you accept his son. An Ambassador is granted many duties and liberties. |
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