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| Topic: $17 Trillion , Why So Much Debt? | |
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Some may wonder, 'Why so much debt?'. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Debt and Destruction | From April 1917 to November 1919, when Woodrow Wilson borrowed $30 billion to fight World War I, he was able to do so because of the promise he made to lenders that the commitment to repay them would be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. At the time, the government's total debt was about $14 billion; so Wilson's painful gambit trebled it. In reality, it was not the full faith and credit of the federal government that promised to repay; it was not the credit worthiness of the federal government at stake; it was not the federal government that paid back the money that was borrowed. That's because the government has no credit or credit worthiness or disposable wealth. Only the taxpayers have that. This is not an academic difference. Wilson knew his creditors could not seize government buildings if he or a successor could not repay the loans in a timely manner. But the IRS could seize private wealth if taxpayers didn't cough up. At the time, the federal income tax was new. In order to get it passed in Congress, Wilson promised that the tax rate on personal incomes would never exceed 3 percent of adjusted gross income, and that it would only be assessed on adjusted gross incomes north of $10,000 a year — the rough equivalent of $250,000 today. Wilson also had a brand-new bank with its own legal printing press at his disposal: the Federal Reserve. With its power, the Federal Reserve could print and lend all the cash it wanted, flood the economy with money, and cheapen the value of the dollar so that when Wilson's $30 billion debt was repaid, it would be done with dollars worth far less — and thus less painful to extract from taxpayers — than those he borrowed. This is, of course, government-induced inflation. It was relatively new in Wilson's era, but it has been practiced by the Fed and accepted by every president from Wilson to Barack Obama. And it can be done without the consent of Congress because Congress already gave the Fed the unlimited power to print cash and lend it. Today, this is done without ink and paper; rather, by pressing a few computer keys. So today, when the president wants to borrow more than the law allows, the Fed can provide the cash, but the president needs a change in the law so as to have the legal authority to commit as yet unborn taxpayers to repay the government's additional debt. While in office, Obama has borrowed about $1.2 trillion a year with the approval of Republicans as well as Democrats in Congress. The lenders are quick to make their loans, because the feds have never failed to extract the cash from taxpayers or borrow more in their names to pay the debt service. Presidents and Congresses don't worry about paying back the principal or paying the debt service, as long as they can continue to borrow more in order to do so. As absurd as it sounds, the federal government borrows money in order to pay the debt service on money it has already borrowed and spent. Is it any wonder that today the government's debt has reached $17 trillion? In his zeal to persuade Congress to let the government borrow another trillion dollars in the next nine months, Obama has stated that raising the debt ceiling will not add to the nation's debt. He is either willfully ignorant or Clintonesque in his use of misleading words. He knows the feds never have declined to borrow whatever they want, whenever they want it, up to the limit of their legal borrowing authority. And they have done so with their eyes on only immediate political needs, with disdain for the economic consequences and with contempt for the future. But the future cannot sustain this much longer. The half-trillion dollars a year the feds now pay in debt service on present and ancient debt is equivalent to one-fifth of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. And the $1.2 trillion the feds borrow and spend each year is the equivalent of half of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. If the mindset of borrow and spend and damn the future persists, American society as we know it will collapse as taxpayers reach the tipping point beyond which it will no longer make sense to earn income. Do you think this sounds apocalyptic? Think again. Nearly half of the taxpayers in America are there already. Why should they work, they no doubt reason, when the feds will continue to tax and borrow and transfer wealth to them. The president and all congressional Democrats and most Senate Republicans and about half of the House Republicans want to continue this descent into an economic maelstrom, and they have demonized those brave House and Senate Republicans who have had enough of it. Many courageous congressional Republicans understand the harm the feds have done to the dollar, believe the government must stay within the confines of the Constitution and recognize that borrowing money in order to pay the interest on money already borrowed will lead to perdition — and they are resisting it. Obama says they are holding the Treasury hostage and demanding a ransom. He is wrong again. They are defending the dollar and the Constitution. He is saddling future generations with debt they will not be able to afford. He will turn the IRS into debt collectors for the Chinese government, which is the federal government's largest foreign creditor. The courageous House and Senate Republicans are standing athwart the progressive tidal wave and saying: STOP. I expect they will stand firm. When they do, they will be history's heroes. As for Obama, I suspect he doesn't realize that since the principal of Wilson's $30 billion loan has yet to be repaid, the Treasury is still paying interest on it. Do you know anyone who consented to that? By Judge Andrew P. Napolitano http://www.JewishWorldReview.com |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Sat 10/19/13 06:06 PM
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If every dollar put into circulation in our debt based economy (even computer generated) comes with debt attached, please tell me how there will ever be enough money to pay it back! |
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Edited by
willowdraga
on
Sat 10/19/13 08:15 PM
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This country has been in debt since shortly after it's beginning. It is the normal way of a government to run.
Find one that is not in debt. All of the debt worriers are just using a false premise to bring fear and hate. And deficit and debt are two different things. |
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This country has been in debt since shortly after it's beginning. It is the normal way of a government to run. Find one that is not in debt. All of the debt worriers are just using a false premise to bring fear and hate. And deficit and debt are two different things.  Are you denying that the federal debt of the USA is a problem?
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This country has been in debt since shortly after it's beginning. It is the normal way of a government to run. Find one that is not in debt. All of the debt worriers are just using a false premise to bring fear and hate. And deficit and debt are two different things. Are you denying that the federal debt of the USA is a problem?
from a money management site: Are you in debt crisis? There are two ways to deal with problem debt. Which one is right for you depends on whether you're in what's technically defined as debt-crisis, or if you just have worrying or large debts. What counts as debt crisis depends on who you ask. There's a strong indication if you answer yes to either of these... Are you struggling to pay all basic outgoings, eg, mortgage, rent, energy bills and credit card minimums? - or - Are your debts (excluding your mortgage) bigger than a year’s after-tax income? are we struggling to pay? when there is a deficit we are struggling when there is a surplus we are paying on time the deficit has been decreasing is our debt bigger than a years revenue,,,? yes and we have for centuries, in 1815 our revenue was 16 mill and our debt was 100 (6 x as much as revenue) fast forward to 2013 our revenue is 2.7 trill, and our debt is 17.2 (6x as much as revenue) http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/year_revenue_2013USmn_15ms1n#usgs302 we consistently are carrying more debt than our revenue,, but some years we have the spending under control (surplus) and some we do not (Deficit),,,, its no different of a 'problem' than ever and certainly nothing new,,,, |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
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Sun 10/20/13 04:12 AM
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A phantom debt. What exactly has the Fed given us? Pieces of paper? Backed by what? What resource has the Fed loaned us that puts them out?
Did they stockpile a bunch of resources, traded the resources around and gave us a spendable currency? From what I can tell, they gave us paper. Worth absolutely NOTHING to anyone. Except what two people agree upon. Sounds like our debt is in fact zero.. |
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This country has been in debt since shortly after it's beginning. It is the normal way of a government to run. Find one that is not in debt. All of the debt worriers are just using a false premise to bring fear and hate. And deficit and debt are two different things. |
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If Debt is the problem,how come MORE Debt is the Solution?
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It`s not really dept, the money goes into improving the country, which again improves the world. So basically, it`s just placing resources more evenly, and therefore making the world more united in the long run. People don`t see it that way, but it`s how it is, we are all working together, every nation, every country, every man.
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It`s not really dept, the money goes into improving the country, which again improves the world. So basically, it`s just placing resources more evenly, and therefore making the world more united in the long run. People don`t see it that way, but it`s how it is, we are all working together, every nation, every country, every man. This is a very beautiful outlook, and one that can actually make the world a better place, under perfect circumstances. The world is imperfect, however, and sometimes "the path to hell is paved with good intentions". Efficiency and effectiveness need to be taken into consideration (and corruption). Sometimes we need to take care of ourselves before others, because if we don't, we will find ourselves having to take from the same hand we were once funding. It is important in realizing that a Utopia can never exist in this universe. It's mathematically and scientifically impossible. But we should all strive to want to help others. |
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It`s not really dept, the money goes into improving the country, which again improves the world. So basically, it`s just placing resources more evenly, and therefore making the world more united in the long run. People don`t see it that way, but it`s how it is, we are all working together, every nation, every country, every man. The Creed of some early starry-eyed Communists and other Utopians;"We need to lift up the masses to our Level",then,by damn,the Masses managed to drag them down to their level,as it has happened with any of those Utopian Movements! |
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Some may wonder, 'Why so much debt?'. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Debt and Destruction | From April 1917 to November 1919, when Woodrow Wilson borrowed $30 billion to fight World War I, he was able to do so because of the promise he made to lenders that the commitment to repay them would be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. At the time, the government's total debt was about $14 billion; so Wilson's painful gambit trebled it. In reality, it was not the full faith and credit of the federal government that promised to repay; it was not the credit worthiness of the federal government at stake; it was not the federal government that paid back the money that was borrowed. That's because the government has no credit or credit worthiness or disposable wealth. Only the taxpayers have that. This is not an academic difference. Wilson knew his creditors could not seize government buildings if he or a successor could not repay the loans in a timely manner. But the IRS could seize private wealth if taxpayers didn't cough up. At the time, the federal income tax was new. In order to get it passed in Congress, Wilson promised that the tax rate on personal incomes would never exceed 3 percent of adjusted gross income, and that it would only be assessed on adjusted gross incomes north of $10,000 a year — the rough equivalent of $250,000 today. Wilson also had a brand-new bank with its own legal printing press at his disposal: the Federal Reserve. With its power, the Federal Reserve could print and lend all the cash it wanted, flood the economy with money, and cheapen the value of the dollar so that when Wilson's $30 billion debt was repaid, it would be done with dollars worth far less — and thus less painful to extract from taxpayers — than those he borrowed. This is, of course, government-induced inflation. It was relatively new in Wilson's era, but it has been practiced by the Fed and accepted by every president from Wilson to Barack Obama. And it can be done without the consent of Congress because Congress already gave the Fed the unlimited power to print cash and lend it. Today, this is done without ink and paper; rather, by pressing a few computer keys. So today, when the president wants to borrow more than the law allows, the Fed can provide the cash, but the president needs a change in the law so as to have the legal authority to commit as yet unborn taxpayers to repay the government's additional debt. While in office, Obama has borrowed about $1.2 trillion a year with the approval of Republicans as well as Democrats in Congress. The lenders are quick to make their loans, because the feds have never failed to extract the cash from taxpayers or borrow more in their names to pay the debt service. Presidents and Congresses don't worry about paying back the principal or paying the debt service, as long as they can continue to borrow more in order to do so. As absurd as it sounds, the federal government borrows money in order to pay the debt service on money it has already borrowed and spent. Is it any wonder that today the government's debt has reached $17 trillion? In his zeal to persuade Congress to let the government borrow another trillion dollars in the next nine months, Obama has stated that raising the debt ceiling will not add to the nation's debt. He is either willfully ignorant or Clintonesque in his use of misleading words. He knows the feds never have declined to borrow whatever they want, whenever they want it, up to the limit of their legal borrowing authority. And they have done so with their eyes on only immediate political needs, with disdain for the economic consequences and with contempt for the future. But the future cannot sustain this much longer. The half-trillion dollars a year the feds now pay in debt service on present and ancient debt is equivalent to one-fifth of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. And the $1.2 trillion the feds borrow and spend each year is the equivalent of half of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. If the mindset of borrow and spend and damn the future persists, American society as we know it will collapse as taxpayers reach the tipping point beyond which it will no longer make sense to earn income. Do you think this sounds apocalyptic? Think again. Nearly half of the taxpayers in America are there already. Why should they work, they no doubt reason, when the feds will continue to tax and borrow and transfer wealth to them. The president and all congressional Democrats and most Senate Republicans and about half of the House Republicans want to continue this descent into an economic maelstrom, and they have demonized those brave House and Senate Republicans who have had enough of it. Many courageous congressional Republicans understand the harm the feds have done to the dollar, believe the government must stay within the confines of the Constitution and recognize that borrowing money in order to pay the interest on money already borrowed will lead to perdition — and they are resisting it. Obama says they are holding the Treasury hostage and demanding a ransom. He is wrong again. They are defending the dollar and the Constitution. He is saddling future generations with debt they will not be able to afford. He will turn the IRS into debt collectors for the Chinese government, which is the federal government's largest foreign creditor. The courageous House and Senate Republicans are standing athwart the progressive tidal wave and saying: STOP. I expect they will stand firm. When they do, they will be history's heroes. As for Obama, I suspect he doesn't realize that since the principal of Wilson's $30 billion loan has yet to be repaid, the Treasury is still paying interest on it. Do you know anyone who consented to that? By Judge Andrew P. Napolitano http://www.JewishWorldReview.com Because Obama has spent more then every President in history combined and he's not even out of office yet! |
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Some may wonder, 'Why so much debt?'. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Debt and Destruction | From April 1917 to November 1919, when Woodrow Wilson borrowed $30 billion to fight World War I, he was able to do so because of the promise he made to lenders that the commitment to repay them would be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. At the time, the government's total debt was about $14 billion; so Wilson's painful gambit trebled it. In reality, it was not the full faith and credit of the federal government that promised to repay; it was not the credit worthiness of the federal government at stake; it was not the federal government that paid back the money that was borrowed. That's because the government has no credit or credit worthiness or disposable wealth. Only the taxpayers have that. This is not an academic difference. Wilson knew his creditors could not seize government buildings if he or a successor could not repay the loans in a timely manner. But the IRS could seize private wealth if taxpayers didn't cough up. At the time, the federal income tax was new. In order to get it passed in Congress, Wilson promised that the tax rate on personal incomes would never exceed 3 percent of adjusted gross income, and that it would only be assessed on adjusted gross incomes north of $10,000 a year — the rough equivalent of $250,000 today. Wilson also had a brand-new bank with its own legal printing press at his disposal: the Federal Reserve. With its power, the Federal Reserve could print and lend all the cash it wanted, flood the economy with money, and cheapen the value of the dollar so that when Wilson's $30 billion debt was repaid, it would be done with dollars worth far less — and thus less painful to extract from taxpayers — than those he borrowed. This is, of course, government-induced inflation. It was relatively new in Wilson's era, but it has been practiced by the Fed and accepted by every president from Wilson to Barack Obama. And it can be done without the consent of Congress because Congress already gave the Fed the unlimited power to print cash and lend it. Today, this is done without ink and paper; rather, by pressing a few computer keys. So today, when the president wants to borrow more than the law allows, the Fed can provide the cash, but the president needs a change in the law so as to have the legal authority to commit as yet unborn taxpayers to repay the government's additional debt. While in office, Obama has borrowed about $1.2 trillion a year with the approval of Republicans as well as Democrats in Congress. The lenders are quick to make their loans, because the feds have never failed to extract the cash from taxpayers or borrow more in their names to pay the debt service. Presidents and Congresses don't worry about paying back the principal or paying the debt service, as long as they can continue to borrow more in order to do so. As absurd as it sounds, the federal government borrows money in order to pay the debt service on money it has already borrowed and spent. Is it any wonder that today the government's debt has reached $17 trillion? In his zeal to persuade Congress to let the government borrow another trillion dollars in the next nine months, Obama has stated that raising the debt ceiling will not add to the nation's debt. He is either willfully ignorant or Clintonesque in his use of misleading words. He knows the feds never have declined to borrow whatever they want, whenever they want it, up to the limit of their legal borrowing authority. And they have done so with their eyes on only immediate political needs, with disdain for the economic consequences and with contempt for the future. But the future cannot sustain this much longer. The half-trillion dollars a year the feds now pay in debt service on present and ancient debt is equivalent to one-fifth of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. And the $1.2 trillion the feds borrow and spend each year is the equivalent of half of all the yearly revenue collected in taxes. If the mindset of borrow and spend and damn the future persists, American society as we know it will collapse as taxpayers reach the tipping point beyond which it will no longer make sense to earn income. Do you think this sounds apocalyptic? Think again. Nearly half of the taxpayers in America are there already. Why should they work, they no doubt reason, when the feds will continue to tax and borrow and transfer wealth to them. The president and all congressional Democrats and most Senate Republicans and about half of the House Republicans want to continue this descent into an economic maelstrom, and they have demonized those brave House and Senate Republicans who have had enough of it. Many courageous congressional Republicans understand the harm the feds have done to the dollar, believe the government must stay within the confines of the Constitution and recognize that borrowing money in order to pay the interest on money already borrowed will lead to perdition — and they are resisting it. Obama says they are holding the Treasury hostage and demanding a ransom. He is wrong again. They are defending the dollar and the Constitution. He is saddling future generations with debt they will not be able to afford. He will turn the IRS into debt collectors for the Chinese government, which is the federal government's largest foreign creditor. The courageous House and Senate Republicans are standing athwart the progressive tidal wave and saying: STOP. I expect they will stand firm. When they do, they will be history's heroes. As for Obama, I suspect he doesn't realize that since the principal of Wilson's $30 billion loan has yet to be repaid, the Treasury is still paying interest on it. Do you know anyone who consented to that? By Judge Andrew P. Napolitano http://www.JewishWorldReview.com Because Obama has spent more then every President in history combined and he's not even out of office yet! based upon what math exactly? certainly not debt which was at 11.9 trill in bushs last fiscal year (2009) and is now at 16.7 trill,, an increase of 4.8 trill,, hardly more than every president in history..... 
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sat 10/26/13 08:23 AM
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Wait'll it becomes public knowledge that all the money stolen from you & your ancestors by fraud and usury is actually owed to YOU...At that point, the BIS, World Bank, IMF, Goldman Sachs, et al will ALL have to fold, open up their vaults, and pour the wealth they have hoarded back out into the world again!
It will be the final victory of the human race against the legal fictions (Banks & business corporations) which we ourselves created and which now rule the entire earth in an inhuman and inhumane tyranny. Let's hear it for the common man (also called the "mindless masses" and "useless eater" by the "economic elite")...He is about to WIN! Maybe then we can finally get some of the peace & love we so richly deserve...or not...the choice is entirely yours. Whatever the case, the only thing we can be sure of is that the human race is about to get what it properly deserves, either extinction, or happiness. It entirely depends on the choices YOU make. Most of my friends tell me it's all over for humanity, and if we're lucky, the avians will be taking over after you're gone. It'd be kinda nice to think so, but I'm not so sure...You can't all be so stupid as to hang yourselves by the collective rope you've placed around your neck! I want all the innocent ones among you who are going to die (there must be a couple, I'm sure...maybe the babies) know that your deaths will be avenged! If any of the murderous banksters come out of their bunkers after it's over, us ducks & geese will be right there to $hit on their heads until they hide in the bunkers again...so it isn't like the end of the human race means the end of justice or anything stupid like that. |
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Wait'll it becomes public knowledge that all the money stolen from you & your ancestors by fraud and usury is actually owed to YOU...At that point, the BIS, World Bank, IMF, Goldman Sachs, et al will ALL have to fold, open up their vaults, and pour the wealth they have hoarded back out into the world again! It will be the final victory of the human race against the legal fictions (Banks & business corporations) which we ourselves created and which now rule the entire earth in an inhuman and inhumane tyranny. Let's hear it for the common man (also called the "mindless masses" and "useless eater" by the "economic elite")...He is about to WIN! Maybe then we can finally get some of the peace & love we so richly deserve...or not...the choice is entirely yours. Whatever the case, the only thing we can be sure of is that the human race is about to get what it properly deserves, either extinction, or happiness. It entirely depends on the choices YOU make. Most of my friends tell me it's all over for humanity, and if we're lucky, the avians will be taking over after you're gone. It'd be kinda nice to think so, but I'm not so sure...You can't all be so stupid as to hang yourselves by the collective rope you've placed around your neck! I want all the innocent ones among you who are going to die (there must be a couple, I'm sure...maybe the babies) know that your deaths will be avenged! If any of the murderous banksters come out of their bunkers after it's over, us ducks & geese will be right there to $hit on their heads until they hide in the bunkers again...so it isn't like the end of the human race means the end of justice or anything stupid like that. What "Wealth" would that be? 
Wads and wads of paper? 
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sat 10/26/13 02:29 PM
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Wait'll it becomes public knowledge that all the money stolen from you & your ancestors by fraud and usury is actually owed to YOU...At that point, the BIS, World Bank, IMF, Goldman Sachs, et al will ALL have to fold, open up their vaults, and pour the wealth they have hoarded back out into the world again! It will be the final victory of the human race against the legal fictions (Banks & business corporations) which we ourselves created and which now rule the entire earth in an inhuman and inhumane tyranny. Let's hear it for the common man (also called the "mindless masses" and "useless eater" by the "economic elite")...He is about to WIN! Maybe then we can finally get some of the peace & love we so richly deserve...or not...the choice is entirely yours. Whatever the case, the only thing we can be sure of is that the human race is about to get what it properly deserves, either extinction, or happiness. It entirely depends on the choices YOU make. Most of my friends tell me it's all over for humanity, and if we're lucky, the avians will be taking over after you're gone. It'd be kinda nice to think so, but I'm not so sure...You can't all be so stupid as to hang yourselves by the collective rope you've placed around your neck! I want all the innocent ones among you who are going to die (there must be a couple, I'm sure...maybe the babies) know that your deaths will be avenged! If any of the murderous banksters come out of their bunkers after it's over, us ducks & geese will be right there to $hit on their heads until they hide in the bunkers again...so it isn't like the end of the human race means the end of justice or anything stupid like that. What "Wealth" would that be?
Wads and wads of paper?
Nope, mostly gold and everyone's private information (birth records) If they can't borrow money on your private information (like even knowing you exist), what value are you to them as an asset they can write bonds on?...If it wasn't for your credit & labour value, you'd have no value to them at all and there'd be no "money!" Take back your private information (it's your intellectual property)...even better...LEASE it to them for a royalty! |
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Why so much debt? ... to buy votes with our grand children's money.
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sat 10/26/13 05:01 PM
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They write the bonds they use to borrow with using your birth records as the security. Once they have your SSN and you have filed your first income tax, they go to town and start robbing your private estates.
Put all those private securities together, and they become the NATIONAL SECURITY (now you know why it's so damned important to them). You can stymie them and correct your monetary system, simply by ordering your birth record sealed (That information is your PRIVATE intellectual PROPERTY!) The US is beholden to the FED owing to the rotten deal they pulled on you in 1913, BUT...Your State is beholden to YOU...Your birth certificate BOND is the proof...THEY OWE YOU...The birth certificate is proof that they are holding your private information (date of birth, etc.) The birth record is proof of the existence of a human being capable of creating CREDIT and working to pay off the debt that government incurs. What happens when you lay claim to your private information (your absolute property)?...The whole corrupt system falls to pieces!! If you want to straighten out your country, you'd better act fast, because the Fed is getting ready to make off with all the loot! (those guys are some MIGHTY SLIPPERY banksters!) http://youtu.be/kG0m6J0aF8w |
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A phantom debt. What exactly has the Fed given us? Pieces of paper? Backed by what? What resource has the Fed loaned us that puts them out? Did they stockpile a bunch of resources, traded the resources around and gave us a spendable currency? From what I can tell, they gave us paper. Worth absolutely NOTHING to anyone. Except what two people agree upon. Sounds like our debt is in fact zero.. The paper money is worthless except for what people think its worth and they trade value for worthless paper. In the end, the wealthy will own the land, the gold, the food, and the people will have worthless paper. |
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