on scroll news

that a judge in iowa overturned the ban on gay marraige as

unconstitutional

wonder if it will hold up

interesting the fight may be on

msnbc story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20531786/

excerpt

A Polk County judge on Thursday struck down Iowa’s decade-old gay marriage ban, clearing the way for the couples to apply for marriage licenses. But county attorney John Sarcone promised a quick appeal, and he immediately asked the judge for a stay that would prevent gay couples from getting marriage licenses until the appeal was resolved.

why is gay marriage such an issue? really I want to know.
I dont care who is in your bedroom. who you give a ring to is your business not mine, and guess what, its not the governments either.

you know the forefathers should have said something about the common sense of rule and just butted the hell out of a lot of areas in our lives. gay marraige being one of those areas, much as in the same manner of the suppossed constitutional ban on church and state (that doesnt exhist).

if your a dude and you want a dude, by all means have a dude.
congress and the holy rollers who think that it's an abomination can all go to hell.

but in the words of a friend, what do i know.


doc

I've long felt that personal Moral Beliefs and the laws of the land should be unrelated. I know what some will say "This country was founded on strong Christian values" and I say that these values are Christian-esque as many of the laws made were shared by many religions, but more importantly can help to maintain order in a nation that would otherwise fall apart.

I'm curious to see how this will turn out. I have my opinion on the matter, but it's not up to me, it's up to the courts to decide.

well it is a religious issue

and the state is not supposed to dictate religion

nor prohibit it

the only argument ya hear is adam and eve not adam and steve

or some variation of it

and that is christian value

therefore should not have an effect on the issue

maybe those in the gay community should find a religion that supports thier marriage and practice it

that would really thickin the plot

I do not feel the Government should command a church to perform Gay Marriages either, that's part of the Christian faith and shouldn't be man-dated.

And yes, a solely Gay religion might be interesting, but we know comedians wouldn't shut up about it.

i do not think anyone is telling the church they
have to perform the marriage

but they shaould not be able to stop them
because of their beliefs neither

and i did not say solely gay religion

i said
should find a religion that supports their marriage and practice it

why does it need to be segregated

I dont think that finding a person to perform a gay marraige would be difficult at all. the problem would be from the ACLU demanding that marraiges be performed in every church, which i would not go for either- the main focus of the point being that you can not dictate your beliefs to the world in which you share with many contrary beliefs.

leave the church out of it, you want to marry then marry.
as far as practicing a religion that promotes this kind of behavior- the arabs have been boning one another for thousands of years (no offense if your one and doesnt do that) but the belief that women are for procriation and men are for fun has been around for centuries.

dont know what else to say, the government with all its undevine wisdomless insights should butt out, so should the church(i think we're beyond what they think now anyway)

d

they can be married by a justice of the peaces as well but my question is about the states that do have anti discrimination laws for gay rights. can a minister or a church be charged or sued for refusing to admit them into their church or marry the couple?

It doesn't need to be segregated, it's just the easiest way to make a religion that supports Gay marriage is to make one... I suppose it doesn't have to be strictly gay, certainly not.

As for the rest I was adding to your point. The butting out of State and Religion should go both ways.

from
http://grove.ufl.edu/~ggsa/gaymarriage.html


1. Homosexuality is not natural,- much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children.- Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because - straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful,- since Britney Spears's 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed at all:- women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts,- because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country.- That's why we only have one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that- hanging around tall people makes you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior.- People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.

10. Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. - That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, - and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better,- because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.

a lot of gays get married in churches, they just cant do it with a liciense. so your married in gods eyes not the gov.

also most places allow for domestic partners sex not withstanding. they get medical benifits and everything

Very well said Armydoc.

It's not my business who someone else chooses to spend their life with.

Everyone should be free to live life and be happy as long as the way they live does not endanger others.

corporate america is opening its eyes, and providing benifits to all types of couples. its either that or be boycotted by the gays, and they carry quite a bit of weight nowdays

Just for the record. A judge can declare marriage legan within a particular state, but this holds no validity when it comes to the federal laws that exist and extend from a federally recognised union. In other words a marriage can be allowed in one state but as soon as you cross the border, you are not considered married, nor does the federal government consider you so.

armydoc, there are many who think the GLBT community is creating a lot of havoc over something like marriage. For all those who take live under and protected by the laws of equality, it's easy to take for granted what you have.

In case you don't know what you have, let me point out that in the case of marriage, there are over ONE THOUSAND laws that the GLBT community are not permitted or allowd to seek refuge in.

That's over 1,000 legalities that we can take advantage of, because the federal government will not recognise the legal rights of marriage to be exended to our community.

These are rights that protect, rights that guarantee, rights that limit, rights that allow, rights that not granted, do not allow equal protection under the LAWS, that were created for and from the institution of marriage, for ALL.

ALSO, realize that this one single thing, marriage, that disregards the protections under the law for all is only one of the many biases that exist in our laws.

There is still NO federal law that prohibits states from recognising and supporting and upholding prejudice. At this time, today, now, there are over 30 states that allow, even agree that employers can fire anyone, if they determine they are gay. Further, that any person thought to be gay, can be denied housing and even be evicted from thier homes AND THEY ARE! There are judges that rule that a parent can not have custody or even unsupervised visitation rights to their children, simply on the basis that they are gay.

It is only the federal government who can declare these actions unwarrented and illegal. The constitution guarantees every individual equality under the laws. There are individuals who are not only be denied equal protections under our laws, they are being denied the right the basic inalienabe rights that are meant to be extended to all.

more than 1,000 laws, just related to marriage, then consider all the others the GLBT community are denied.

Marriage is the focus of the campaign, because marriage, when accepted or 'legalized' by the federal government, will, by it's very acceptence provide the foundations needed to destroy other inequalities.

Can you still question why, we are so "in your face" about these issues? We need the support of those who accept, understand and agree with our plight. We need that support, because, alone, we are not a majority. Our greatest foes are the religious organizations, and THEY ARE ORGANIZED and their's is the vote against that is in the majority.

Don't be apathetic to this issue, not if you have friends who are gay. Do say you don't care means you don't give a dam n.
To say what's the big deal - let em get married, does not say it to the right people. You do not support your friends by shaking their hand and saying "hey, I hope it all works out for ya." You support your friends by taking action, by letting your representative know how you feel.

If you want to know the topics, if you want to stay on top of those laws and bills up for review, if you want to support and uphold the value of equality in this country, go to HRC.ORG and ask to be placed on a email list. They will tell you what's up for review, who's doing what, saying what, and when they ask for your voice, they even supply a letter for you to sign already imbedded in a link to YOUR representative. It so easy to take actions that will assure that our rights and freedoms will be in place and distributed with equality.

as far as i'm concern people can do anything they want.
it's not for me to judge
no matter what they are still my brothers and sisters

Doc,
I commend you!
I just wished you would take that same attitude towards your thoughts on forcing other countries to our will!

Unfortunately for the gay marriage issue in Iowa!


DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Same-sex marriage was legal here for less than 24 hours before the county won a stay of a judge's order on Friday, a tiny window of opportunity that allowed two men to make history but left dozens of other couples disappointed after a frantic rush to the altar.

My personal thoughts on this issue are of little consequence, but that said it is something that seems to be financially and morally driven!

Gay people want the financial benefits, and straight folk want to maintain the basic morality of family values! That brings up a lot of heated and controversial issues with a back drop of violence in some instances!

Taxes, medical benefits, drawing Social security benefits off ones spouse after they die, and the fact that such marriages cannot bring children all combine to make it an issue that must be addressed not only morally but also legally!

As a legal issue in a country ruled by the majority it should be decided by such, and the other side should learn to live with the results!

If it is or were just a moral issue then it would open the doors for a wide range of issues to be judged in the same context!

Would we allow 14 and 15 year olds to have sex with whomever, or to be married for example. What about the mormon practice of multiple wives?

It is a list that could go on and on, therefore in my opinion it should be a legal decision decided on by the majority!

Just for the record. A judge can declare marriage legan within a particular state, but this holds no validity when it comes to the federal laws that exist and extend from a federally recognised union. In other words a marriage can be allowed in one state but as soon as you cross the border, you are not considered married, nor does the federal government consider you so.


And this is why many people fill it needs to be addressed by a constitutional amendment!

hmmmm. what to say, i think that saying hey let them get married is supporting their right to be a legally recognized couple partnership union whatever.

enacting one simple law would guarentee the SAME rights as others.

The marraige between a gay couple whether it be man and man or woman and woman shall hence forth be considered a legal and binding commitment between the two parties involved. Prejudices of this legally binding commitment are hence forth now and forever deemed unconstitutional and punishable by the law that governs the rights of the individuals as written in the civil rights act of 1964; further amended to employees in title VII of said act, clarified for employers in Supreme Court decision Meritor Vs vinson 1986.

does that clarify it enough....sheeesh let them get married just didnt take as long or as much thought to write.

BTW fanta- their americans who are protected in some form or fashion by that little piece of paper printed over 220 years ago. the other countries I dont care as much about as I do this one.