I don't know how many people just sit around and think about this
particular topic but I was wondering how some of you feel about
notions/concepts of freedom and destiny. On the whole, I find myself
(as a Christian) perplexed by many who affirm a God who knows all and
predestined all but still want to affirm human freedom. This also has
to do with my interest in German Idealism and the debate between
givenness and freedom (i.e. Fichte contra Hegel). My own personal
beliefs on the issue rely strongly on a blending of the two with neither
as absolutes. Destiny and freedom are always conditioned by each
other...thus both are limited if both are said to exist simultaneously.
But we can discuss that further if anyone wishes.

Cheers...because philosophy/theology always gets done better with beer
:)

i belive in god and believe that he is omniscient but i don't believe in
predestination. in my opinion the christian beliefs are constructed in a
way to show that the believers are not predestined and actually have
somewhat of a choice otherwise temptation would not be such a large part
of following the right path. i believe that everything changes with the
decisions we make.

Interesting...but if God (as Creator) knew prior to creating anything,
then is predestination not a forgone conclusion if one takes omniscience
and omnipotence seriously?

i have bent over to pick up an ice cube sometimes it slips away sometime
i pick it up are all these thing predestined

Hey KB whats going on man?

Dont think I will touch this topic. to deep for me. Besides religion and
politics is bound to get some feathers ruffled.
so have fun

jd ,

R U more than a Chaplin

I for one, do NOT believe in predestination. I think that term was
invented as an excuse for a "Christian's" actions when they do bad ie;
God has ordained that it be so. What a load...To truly believe in
predestination, one would have to assume that even the mundane
activities (such as you posting this topic for eg.) are predestined. We
would also have to believe that when God created the Earth all those
eons ago that He ALREADY knew you were gonna post this topic. ( Maybe He
did, I never met The Guy to ask Him lol), BUT, the whole argument for me
falls apart when Jesus Christ is introduced. God gave us the greatest
gift He ever gave us, not just so we could be free of sin when we enter
Heaven, but also as an example for ppl to strive for.
Why would God do this if our lives were already predestined?
Because, unlike Satan, God does not interfere directly in the lives of
man. He merely gave us the tools we need to fight the devil ourselves.
Spiritual freedom is like national freedom, there will always be periods
of struggle to keep it free and to test the strength of our faith in
either.

i don't think it is a foregone conclusion because omniscience and
predestination are not the same thing. if someone is omnicient they are
all knowing but it does not mean that a event will turn out the same way
if you change the variables.

being able to see the future does not mean that it can't change, just
that when it does change you'll be aware of that as well.

I have been told by a Fundementalist that you don't choose God, but God
chooes you. So in other words you can fuck a gay guy up the ass and or
kids up the ass and still be saved. How fucked up is that I tell ya.

God gave us the freedom choice. That is why Adam & Eve sinned. After
all they were perfect and were deceived

god can see it in your heart

HE can definitely see into someones heart.

That's not true goast

all good posts...but can the divine mind be subject to error (i.e.
unforseen change due to a finite decision maker like myself) if so does
that make God less than God...and as someone mentioned Satan, did God
not also know that Satan would fall and created him anyway? Truly we
have good and evil as realities in our created world...or is there
really anything such as good and evil.

If Jesus suddenly found himself with two lesbian neighbors, what do you
think he'd do?????
Yes, the question is intentionally worded like that. Answer any way you
want, I almost never report anyone. I very much enjoy irreverance.

what do you mean by more than a chaplain

sorry ,,, ghost

There is more to acceptance of you by God

One needs to repent first.

Jesus would love them just the same as he would anyone. He doesnt count
up your sins, that is for you to do.

Are you a priest or any one religion