how the hell did this turn into a discussion about illegals?

I dont see that!
First Construction has plenty of skilled, qualified American workers! The trend of hiring illegals is not that old, and the quality of the work has a long ways to go to equal that of willing Americans! A long way to go!!

Agriculture jobs usually pay by the bushel. I used to do it as a high school kid for summer money. You are right with Parents now giving their kids the easy road to life they have become unwilling to work hard!

Like I said though these jobs are taken care of by work visas allotted by the government every year! They have a waiting list and many are turned down! If they dont have enough the Farmers should report the numbers correctly, but I think they do.

The seafood and poultry industries are covered by the same work visa policies. So that excuse doesn't wash either!

Manufacturing Industries are pretty well monotered and the abuse is not as high, but there is no excuse for the construction industries other than greed. The price of housing isnt going down, and hasnt stalled even for an instant! So the excuse that it lowers the cost of housing is bull****. It only puts more money into the pockets of the developers and starves the families of hard working skilled Americans who would love to return to their jobs! Only they cant afford to raise a family on 8 dollars an hour. Could you?

About the only excuse is that the government doesnt enforce the law, but I beleive thats changing, thanks to Americans who speak up, and the change is accelerateing!

Yeah I was noticing that too. I thought we were talking about intolerance, particularly towards muslims who, although they don't themselves blow up innocent civilians, consider it ok to do so and show it by insisting their women wear scarves over their heads or even over their whole bodies, and of course the women who show their acceptance of such behavior by acquiescing and wearing the disrespectful garb.

It started that way I think King!!!

i agree with you about the savings not being passed on to the consumer fanta. the same thing happens with major corporations that outsource to 3rd world countries.

you don't really think that muslims condone bombings through their ultraconservative personal beliefs do you. they don't have anything to do with each other except that the ones that do think it's ok share the same beliefs.

I thought it was about intolerance of immigration in general!

Im being intolerant!!!!

My tolerance is worn to the nub!!!

People can be as intolerant as they want.
nevertheless, somethings are heavier than others.
listen to denise, don't lose it my good friend

Recent polls suggest that a large portion of muslims feel like such bombings are justified. The percentages I have heard bandied around are from 1/3 to 2/3 of the muslims, depending on the polls and where they are taken. Now I think that does not mean that all conservative muslims support such action. It means just what it says, that if you see a muslim, there is a 30 to 60 percent chance that person condones such activity as acceptable. I consider this to be an indication that they are dangerous.

Compare snakes, just as an example. If you see a snake you look at it carefully to see if it might be poisonous, even though you know fully well that not all snakes are poisonous and that not all poisonous snakes are going to bite you personally.

Passing your savings on to your customers is not a requirement in business. More likely you will have to pass it on though because your competitors will offer lower prices if you are not aggressive in your pricing. In businesses where the cost of entry is high, such as new home construction, the company has a little more flexibility to hold some of their earnings because the people who could beat their prices might not be able to enter the market because of a lack of capital.

polls are cross sections of public opinion and may not represent the whole muslim population. if we start allowing this kind of stuff to happen our society is going to be set back a couple hundred years.

I agree that a poll is not a clear indicator that specific people are dangerous and likely to be engaging in terrorist acts. I think that it does indicate that many people approve of such acts though. So the question is, if half of them approve of such acts, how many of them do you want to allow to immigrate to your country. Another question might be, how many of them do you want to invite to your best universities to learn the best of your technology.

I think this was the point being made in the original quote when I started this thread. Many middle easterners are here now. I am not saying that it makes sense to treat them badly or disrespectfully as a individuals because they might support suicide bombings, without regard for the individual's rights or intentions. I am suggesting that if half of them support this sort of behavior it might be smart to quit inviting more of them to come to the country. Horrible isn't it, to think that way. Horrible too that such large groups of muslims think the way they do.

I've been seeing them blow the hell out of each other on the news for decades, regardless of what attempts are made for them to make peace. I suspect there may be some personal issue in their culture that is problematic.

I talk to a man almost everyday, I consider him my friend, and he is Palestinian! He and his wife immigrated here 10 years ago and he is now an American Citizen. I have many discussions with him about politics and the Palestinian perspective.
I have no fear of him and a deep respect! He was excited when the Palestinians held democratic elections, and heart-broken and confused when they elected fair and square hamas, only to be told by the US that we would not recognize their democratically elected government!
He does not see them any different than we would the patriots that fought for our independence. Still I trust him and respect every thing about him!

you have a point but i'm not sold on the idea that such a large portion of the muslim community believes that it is ok.

Who are you talking to king?

i was responding to philosophers post fanta.

I'm not so convinced either king. Still I see poll results that suggest it. I suspect there is some kernel of truth in there somewhere. I'm not usually intolerant of others, but I find myself getting a little ire at the thought that people want to turn the whole world into islamic puppets and they promote the end through violence and murder in the name of allah. I just don't like it.

Instead of thinking well of muslim women because they try to dress like some pious religious conservative, I think that they are contemptuous towards our culture in general and our women in particular. I also think that their men are hateful towards their women for making them follow such a tradition, and that if they are hateful towards their own wives, how can you expect them to have any better feelings towards you.

I'll make the point here that I'd rather have a million illegals from Mexico than a hundred from the middle east. They work hard, show respect for their families and integrate themselves into society very well for the most part. The people I have met from Mexico are decent people, and I have met quite a lot. They are not making their women behave by some archaic rule and trying to convert our country by force to some disrespectful and subversive religion.

thanks philosopher, i know where you are coming from now.

Do you think that feeling might come from a misunderstanding of their culture?
Or that their anger comes from our unwillingness to understand theirs?
Our government has always treated them with disrespect, as though they were second class to us and in need of educateing or guidance.
I dont see them any other wat than fed up with this disrespect we have treated them with on a cultural and political level.
Try talking to some of them with the same respect you show your friends, and try to understand them, not look down on them or fear them!
I think you would come away with a different outlook on them as a whole!
I find them very intelligent and very tolerable.
From graduateing high school in N Mex. and living side by side, I know many Mexicans and I find both to be tolerable and equal to me in every respect.
The Muslims seem very intelligent and respectful.
The only problem I have is illegals and that is not confined to any race or nationality!

there are extremists in every walk of life.

Have you ever went to lunch with a muslim?
I know there are many in Michigan! I beleive yall have a very large Iraqi community there. I talk to everyone, even if I have never met them. Ask a Muslim to luch one day King!
A challenge, call it an expirement!

I double dare you!!!