Anybody else a big fan of Karl Marx? I don't mean to refer to his thoughts on Communism (which the educated reader knows is a phrase he only uses sparingly throughout his career.. seriously people stop associating Marx with Russian / Cuban Communism and Stalin / Castro, they're completely different), but rather his infamous critique on Capitalism in Das Kapital and other writings.

To me, Karl Marx's analysis is one of the best explanations for how the world actually works; capitalism, a system of exchange, entrepreneurship, and exploitation (you can't have a capitalistic mode of production without a increasingly exploitative relationship between haves and have-nots)extends far beyond the realm of finance and economy into the very manner in which we interact with people, or, going further, even the way we conceptualize history and the world (one of the reasons why we can't see a reality outside of a capitalistic one).

Anywho, any thoughts or other Marx fans out there? It's been too long since I've had some intellectual conversation about how the world works lol

are you talking about Karl the Moocher?

Rothbard proved Marx incorrect. http://mises.org/daily/6255/Marx-as-Utopian
As did Mises https://mises.org/efandi/ch26.asp
and a number of others. Aside from these numerous refutations of Marxian theory, every attempt to practice Marxian theory has resulted in mass human suffering and misery. This is most obvious in the USSR, but is found everywhere else Marxist doctrine/theory is put into practice.

Ludwig von Mises Institute
Statism runs counter to human nature, since it consists of the systematic, monopolistic exercise of a coercion which, in all areas where it is felt (including those corresponding to the definition of law and the maintenance of public order), blocks the creativity and entrepreneurial coordination which are precisely the most typical and essential manifestations of human nature. Statism fosters and drives irresponsibility and moral corruption, as it diverts the focus of human behavior toward a privileged pulling on the reins of political power, within a context of ineradicable ignorance that makes it impossible to know the costs of each government action.

--Jesus Huerta de Soto. Essay 19 in Property, Freedom, and Society: Essays in Honor of Hans-Hermann Hoppe


Karl Marx,the "Apostle" of Statism!

I am a fan of Marx's view on capitalism, and I agree, so it was always a wonder to see capitalism so widely used as if it were the best benefit to any society. It offers temporary rewards for a select number of people, the amount of which grows steadily as an increasingly larger number of people are diminished by it. It also feeds the materialistic nature of the populace using it to irrational degrees, all for the drive of a system intended to offset any loss with a greater loss from the disadvantaged individuals in the society that perpetuates it.

You of course mean Crony-Capitalism,a form of Fascism!
Capitalism has never existed anywhere on this Earth,and won't,as long Governments stick their grubby fingers into the economic affairs of the Citizens!
Karl Marx is a bad joke,and so are all of his Apostles in the Profession of Economics.

I don't think anybody on here, at least from the postings so far, understands that you meant Marx's capitalist views, not his communist ones. Nor do they seem to understand that each of these viewpoints can be analyzed separately, as well as being confused in how capitalism is utilized by this country and others. Not too many people on here are open to intellectual discussion, versus snide comments, misinformation, or the use of irrelevant information. I am even more deflated in my drive to try to hold curious discussions, debates, or hell, even just a civilized conversation on any sort of relevant social issue. At this point, I'm settling for hearing more diatribes than anything else. But good luck and let me know if you happen upon an intellectual conversation on any of these forums, as most seem to be about waging some kind of internet war with bad/old/false information, instead.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14535.html

The key to the intricate and massive system of thought created by Karl Marx is at bottom a simple one: Karl Marx was a communist.

A seemingly trite and banal statement set alongside Marxism's myriad of jargon-ridden concepts in philosophy, economics, and culture, yet Marx's devotion to communism was his crucial focus, far more central than the class struggle, the dialectic, the theory of surplus value, and all the rest..............

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14536.html

The Secret Truth About Karl Marx and His Disciples Part 2
Economics / Economic Theory Oct 26, 2009 - 06:01 PM GMT

By: Murray_N_Rothbard

Economics
Communism as the Kingdom of God on Earth: The Takeover of M�nster

Thomas M�ntzer and his Sign may have gotten short shrift, and his body be a-mouldrin' in the grave, but his soul kept marching on. His cause was soon picked up by a M�ntzer disciple, the bookbinder Hans Hut.


Hut claimed to be a prophet sent by God to announce that Christ would return to earth at Whitsuntide, 1528, and would give the power to enforce justice to Hut and to his following of rebaptized saints. The saints would then "take up double-edged swords" and wreak God's vengeance upon priests, pastors, kings, and nobles. Hut and his men would then "establish the rule of Hans Hut on earth," with Muhlhausen, as one might expect, as the world's capital. Christ, aided by Hut and company, would then establish a millennium of communism and free love....


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14537.html

The Secret Truth About Karl Marx and His Disciples Part 3
Economics / Economic Theory Oct 26, 2009 - 06:10 PM GMT

By: Murray_N_Rothbard

Economics
Karl Marx: Apocalyptic Reabsorptionist Communist

Karl Marx was born in Trier, a venerable city in Rhineland Prussia, in 1818, son of a distinguished jurist, and grandson of a rabbi. Indeed, both of Marx's parents were descended from rabbis. Marx's father Heinrich was a liberal rationalist who felt no great qualms about his forced conversion to official Lutheranism in 1816. What is little known is that, in his early years, the baptized Karl was a dedicated Christian.[43]


In his graduation essays from Trier gymnasium in 1835, the very young Marx prefigured his later development. His essay on an assigned topic, "On the Union of the Faithful with Christ" was orthodox evangelical Christian, but it also contained hints of the fundamental "alienation" theme that he would later find in Hegel. Marx's discussion of the "necessity for union" with Christ stressed that this union would put an end to the tragedy of God's alleged rejection of man. In a companion essay on "Reflections of A Young Man on the Choice of a Profession," Marx expressed a worry about his own "demon of ambition," of the great temptation he felt to "inveigh against the Deity and curse mankind."............


http://mises.org/daily/6179/Marxs-Path-to-Communism

Karl The Moocher annotated!

Alright, where to start? When I entered this discussion I was quite curious as to what I'd find and beside the irrelevant and somewhat odd postings I've felt the needs to say something.

@Conrad_73 I think your first post was more accurate because the 'capitalist' system (and I refer to this title somewhat loosely) in which our globe tends to lean isn't the true reflection of what capitalism ought to be, theoretically at least. On that same note just because 'capitalism' is the system of choice and we happen to be socially conditioned to accept and perputate it does not take away from the true horrors of it.

Surely it must be clear (to even a bat) that 'capitalism' hasn't done such a great job. And the fact that a few countries which have adopted communism or some form of socialism have been potrayed as failures shouldn't be the final nail in the story of how wealth should be shared.

I totally agree with @shijinchan and @julz89 that we are so conditioned within this system that we can't even envisage another system which might be more beneficial and to a level exercise some fairness. For me it seems as though even the countries that are regarded as the failed examples of marxist influence have attempted to think outside the proverbial box. Because honestly the system 'each for himself' has become a little stale. And even if communism or socialism were viable alternatives, the fact that the rest of the world and its set up are against these ideas makes it nearly improbable to loosen the ties of exploitation and the accompanying discrimination. I think if we were to give communism or socialism time it might work or at least open ourselve to other avenues. But why would such things be allowed? Those that benefit the most couldn't care less, forgetting that beyond their golden gates are masses that'll be baying for blood.

Marx really defined the world and its workings in such mechanics that no one could fool themselves anymore. Perhaps many dislike him or his ideas because they don't really know or understand what he meant. He truly opened another can (of proverbial worms) because the greedy used his work to futher exploit others and the rest just don't know how to make his revelations relevant to them.

Capitalism vs. Socialism?...I choose Capitalism.

Capitalism gave the World the United States ... who uses much of it's "capital" to protect (and save the azz of ) the rest of the world.

Where is the equivalent example using Mr. Marx's system?

Yeah, we all know how the ideas of Karl Marx worked out in the former USSR.

i was in the soviet union before the wall fell, teaching construction techniques to workers. No one knew how to work! They could make you show up at work but they cant make anyone do anything. It was like watching laurel and hardy... bad. i could do the job faster myself than thier crew of 8 men.. why? there is no incentinve to be productive under communism. it stifles progress, forward thinking and ambition..., and now its moving here.

communism is one of those ideas that works great! ( in theory)..., but never works in practice. oh and communism didnt die it moved here.
read the 10 planks and compare with our society here today.

doesn't even work in Theory!
von Mises,Ayn Rand and many others have refuted this "Theory" thoroughly!

I'd like for these pro-Marx people try living in an anti-capitalist nation. I hear that Venezuela is nice this time of year.

yup. more of the same old " just give up your guns and things will be ok"... lets distribute the wealth EQUALLY.. Lets not reward hard work and innovation, rather we will let the govt tell us where we should work. It will be ok, just keep watching the ball game. dont worry be happy. Dont need GOD, now the govt is god.

yep,let's turn the whole World into Starnesville!

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/08/how-detroit-became-starnesville-from-ayn-rands-atlas-shrugged/

http://www.conservapedia.com/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Company

The Twentieth Century Motor Company of Starnesville, Wisconsin (fl. ca. 1985-2015), was a fictional business firm in Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged. Specifically, this company built automobile engines for about thirty years until finally it went bankrupt and was liquidated. Furthermore, the original workforce, after noticing that the decay in the economy of the entire United States dated from their original vote for a disastrous business plan, coined an expression, in the form of a question, expressing hopelessness and despair. That question was,
“ Who is John Galt? ”


Change One Cannot Believe In

In 2007, Gerald Starnes died, leaving three children: Gerald Starnes, Jr., his younger brother Eric, and their sister Ivy. Together they proposed a radically new business plan: they would have all the employees work according to their ability, and "pay" them according to their needs.

The Starnes children put the matter to a vote of the entire workforce, and the workforce, for reasons that never became clear, voted in favor. Shop foreman Jeff Allen would later describe the attitude of the workforce as of someone spoiling for a fistfight. Gerald Jr. made a hasty speech telling all the workers that they "may [not] leave" because they were all "bound by the moral code that we all accept." But John Galt stood up and declared that he did not accept that code, and furthermore, he would put an end to that moral code once for all—by "stop[ping] the motor of the world." Not until twelve years later would anyone present realize what he meant.

Decline and First Bankruptcy

The Twentieth Century began four years of decline, as the "noble plan" pitted the workers against one another and fostered resentment instead of the hoped-for cooperation. Alcoholism and crime became rampant. Jeff Allen would later state that the only ones who profited from this arrangement were the Starnes children:

Eric Starnes, the Director of Public Relations, sought love, and tried to obtain it by reminding everyone how "democratic" he and his brother and sister had been in "giving" the factory to the workers. The workers regarded him with scorn instead.
Gerald Starnes, Jr., the Director of Production, effectively stole vast amounts of money from the firm and pretended that his ostentatious show of material wealth was necessary as an advertisement for the company. He earned the hatred of the workforce.
Ivy Starnes, the Director of Distribution, sought power instead of material wealth. She dressed in the severe fashion and "sensible shoes" of an early twentieth-century schoolmistress, and treated the workers as though they were wayward and disobedient children. She it was who decided what everyone's "needs" were, and whether they deserved to be met. She became the most-feared person at the company.

While all this was happening, the quality of the company's products deteriorated to unsaleability. After four years, the factory closed. Ivy Starnes made a resentful speech decrying the refusal of the larger society to embrace a factory with such an "enlightened" work ethic. In response, one worker, who had found himself forced to work overtime after coming up with an idea to improve efficiency, walked up to her and spat in her face. Thus the first chapter in the history of the Twentieth Century Motor Company ended.



The Twentieth Century Motor Company was a microcosm of any society that tried to organize itself under the principles set forth in The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Ayn Rand used this firm for two purposes: to demonstrate the utter unworkability and monumental injustice of life under Communism or any other form of collectivism, and to serve as a plot device to explain the origin of her chief anti-villain, John Galt.

The symptoms of the decline illustrated all the ills that Communism brings to any society that adopts its precepts: resentment of anything (like the birth of another child) that augments another's "needs," a tendency to hide one's ability because it is worse than unappreciated, a tendency by authorities to decide people's needs arbitrarily (on account of a lack of any objective standard for judging need or ability), and an overall decline in productivity and quality because the society rewards laziness and punishes good work.

... AND??
SIGNED CONFUSED. OH i see. . LOL.
dont forget how it stifles innovation by exceptional people, which is mabe a bigger problem. Why take a chance and be different? Why do anything more than the person next to you? No good can come of it for you, mabe some bad, and you work harder.