There is some confusion in my mind over what position the man/husband holds in regards to his woman/wife... I've long believed the Bible's instructions on these matters... but I've come to understand from others various viewpoints that in these modern times we women can usurp our man's authority and bring them around to our way of thinking and doing, now that our centuries long quest for equal treatment has emasculated them. So, can anyone explain just exactly what a man's role in his own house, and with his woman really is? Or has our culture evolved so much that we now have two heads of house, that we lead each other...



Ephesians 5:22-25 and 28-33… Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word…”

28-33… So husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church…” For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.”



maybe this equal way of being is what has brought division into the core of male/female relationships, causing divorces, and noncommittal type relationships, because deep down, men have lost their innate purpose of being men when it comes to having authority over their families... instead they have become submissive and must follow their woman's whims just to keep the peace...

Any thoughts on this subject?

Following gives a better view of her butt!

My thoughts are that individuals are just too diverse to generalize by gender.

When Christ talks about a church - he's not literally referring to a physical building. The word Church simply means a gathering of people - his people, followers of Christ. You can physically have a 'church' of people standing outside under the blazing Sun, or at a bus stop. Remember that modern man can't really be compared to the 2'000 yr old average God fearing individual. Men, these days, aren't quite as fear-ridden... we're a little more arrogant & self-assured these days. We've got Sky tv.... ;) From a Biblical standpoint, men were seen to be the head of the household... but, this didn't simply mean that his word was absolute law. Men & women were mean't to be a compliment to each other, not where one dominates the other. Obviously, some marriages may be made up of stronger female personalities who are naturally more able to provide a better more stable family unit. Living by God's laws is what's most important to any couple. Women are a compliment to men - not subordinate to them

Hello Male, it’s nice to make your acquaintance… and, after reviewing your response to my queries, I have my own comments that your argument brought to my mind, so I took each of your opinions one by one…

1) I believe the Church referred to in Scriptures is not one that requires a gathering of any kind, unless it is once a week to worship God as instructed. Christ’s Church is His followers, and they are scattered all over the world… which makes it impossible for everyone to meet in one place, and under one roof, and definitely not at the same time…

2) I believe that 2000 years ago, women didn’t question or contend with the authority of their husbands. And however arrogant and self assured modern men might think they are, in more relationships than not, when their woman says jump, they say, “how high, honey”?

3) I’m not sure if I can fully accept the view you present about a man’s position as head of household, and that his word wasn’t the law in it… because if men of old didn’t use to have complete control over the women that they readily took advantage of, and/or, even abused, there would have been no reason for modern day women to protest and demand equality… the woman’s movement was more about winning our “freedom from male oppression.” (imho)

4) While I do see that you hold the opinion that some men allow their women to provide a better, more stable family unit, because they are meant to compliment men, not be subordinate to them… I see this as an easy escape for men, so they can avoid/evade the serious responsibility that being the head of a family really is.

So, I take from your overall response that you are not sure what the man’s role is in his own house, and with his woman?

Okay… but, I do appreciate the various subjects that you stimulated my reasoning to address… although I’m still interested in the definitive explanation that I seek..

To me the man is head of the household, the leader, protector and provider.


But he dang well make sure his wife is happy. Nothing saying he can't seek her counsel on matters.

i fail to see what god or church has to do with this...but IMO, they lead and follow each other, depending on the situation... i know i wouldn't want to be with a female that won't take charge when needed...

I knew I liked you for a reason, oldhippie... and as an added bonus... you haven't forgotten how important it is to put the seat back down... no unnecessary strife with the wife, right?

Why do we follow rules in relationships? Can you we ask ourselves that question without jumping to conclusions about the consequences of following or not following?

I'm currently studying the bible and I think the passage you posted (28-33) is very beautiful. I feel inspired to care for the one I love with the same responsibility that I have toward myself. That sounds like love to me. But why do we feel the need to follow instruction in relationships? Is it that it gives us security? Do we believe that some kind of result will be guaranteed?

Hello mightymoe…

according to the Scriptures the concept of marriage was created by God beginning in Genesis 2:21-24 which says… And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. However, after God established a woman’s role in the Garden of Eden, Eve then sinned against Him by her direct disobedience to His instructions not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil… so we find in Genesis 3:16… where God then puts a curse on Eve due to the gravity of her sin, because she also caused her husband, Adam, to disobey God and follow in her foot steps to sin... so in verse 16 we find Him saying… To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth Children; your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” Here is where a man’s rule over his wife began as a consequence…

yea, sorry, i'm not religious, and i think the bible was written by man, so the females will have a secondary place in the bible... back then, women needed men more than they do now, so mens egos went way outa control...a good study of this would be the muslim religion, a throwback on how men treated women back then...

Hello DaySinner…

I’m not sure if there are a set of rules to follow in relationships… What I’m interested in learning from others perspectives is what the role of the man is in a male/female relationship in these modern times, what does it mean to him personally… or what do women think men’s roles are now in relation to them… when old school ideas and ways of being are dying out with each new consecutive generation, to where now, a large majority of men are becoming just bio-breeders that leave their women and children behind to survive without a father’s influence… more men are choosing to mate with each other… there are more single men deciding never to marry… so, to me… these are symptoms that reflect the failing of our interpersonal way of life between men and women… and I guess I’d just like to know if there are any old school believers, beside oldhippie, that still remember what a man’s role is, and if they still live it in their own lives… as far as any rules go… none of my ex’s ever had a checklist I had to follow, but they did have various preferences they instructed me to consider when it came to how they wanted me to be perceived by others… and how they themselves wanted to perceive me…

My guess is that there are still many "old school believers."

One thought...If you want facts to go along with opinions, do some research...A good place to begin would be demographics on atheism, agnosticism, and irreligion world wide and in the United States...I mention this in direct response to the scriptures you quoted in your OP....Certainly you don't believe the changes you label as "division of core male/female relationships" are entirely credited to your description of "this equal way of being" ...

Here are two excellent links from Wiki to get you started...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism


Some other areas that might clear up your confusion, help answer your questions.....The history of the feminist movement and the sexual revolution and its consequences...

In terms of religion, I am very well versed in the scriptures on the subject and the only thing I believe about it is that men kept women where they wanted them for way too long under the heavy thumbs of religion.

In terms of old fashion beliefs? The concept of a woman’s place in her home and her society were based on the beliefs that she was comprehensibly capable of little else. We are way past disproving this concept. So when someone tells me they are old fashioned, I take that to mean they still believe women are trained broodmares.

On the subject of a family hierarchy, I don’t understand why one is needed. Ideally, two mature adults should be able to navigate an educated course for raising their children together and running their home smoothly. If they cannot, then maybe they should not be raising them together.

None of this requires one head or two heads. Simply two people working in harmony. No roles to play, just each individual does what they do best. We all have different talents, and if our talents don’t complement each other well, then we may have to work at compromises more than others who’s do.

I absolutely ADORE this answer! You have very sexy brains woman!

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Excellent point of reference Mo...This from the Koran, sura 4:34, is interpreted to say that men have "pre-eminence" over women or that they are "overseers" of women. The verse goes on to say that the husband of an insubordinate wife should first admonish her, then leave her to sleep alone and finally beat her....

The perfect couple/relationship is a combination of the two. Man has his strong points & so does woman. The lesson is for the two to realize, respect & trust; so that they are am unconquerable TEAM.

REMEMBER, THERE IS NO I, IN T E A M.