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| Topic: Labeling Pro-Marriage Groups as 'Hateful' Must End | |
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I might add, that no points were won in this thread for the side against ss marriage.
 Oh? Just who is authorized to make such a judgement?
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 08/26/12 11:13 PM
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I might add, that no points were won in this thread for the side against ss marriage.
Oh? Just who is authorized to make such a judgement?
ss marriage supporters wont give 'points' to any civil union/os marriage argument likewise civil union/os marriage supporters wont give 'points' to ss marriage supporters so, I guess points will be a subjective and never truly won by anyone in this type of discussion,,, 
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. . . some are also just stating their opinions without hatred. Like Dan Cathy and the Family Research Council Stating an opinion is one thing. Actively trying to stop gay people from having equal rights is hateful, though. |
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when did marriage become a 'right'?
if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. |
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too.
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too. I do agree that homophobia is learned from the environment that people grow up in, much like racism and anti-semitism. However, some people who are able to think for themselves, rather than rely solely on what they're taught by parents/church/whoever are able to get away from spewing that hatred and actually learn for themselves that just because someone is different, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or wrong. |
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too. I do agree that homophobia is learned from the environment that people grow up in, much like racism and anti-semitism. However, some people who are able to think for themselves, rather than rely solely on what they're taught by parents/church/whoever are able to get away from spewing that hatred and actually learn for themselves that just because someone is different, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or wrong. |
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too. I do agree that homophobia is learned from the environment that people grow up in, much like racism and anti-semitism. However, some people who are able to think for themselves, rather than rely solely on what they're taught by parents/church/whoever are able to get away from spewing that hatred and actually learn for themselves that just because someone is different, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or wrong. |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. its not an 'ability' , its a contract the contract is set aside for heterosexual unions, the potential within which can create LIFE for which those in the contract can be legally responsible for once produced, and for which the ACTION that creates life is both expected and encouraged by the contract in so far as it allows for an end to that contract if there is a SEXUAL breach,, such as adultery IM all for a contract that takes no consideration of sexual relations, but affords the same 'rights' in the eyes of the law |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. its not an 'ability' , its a contract the contract is set aside for heterosexual unions, the potential within which can create LIFE for which those in the contract can be legally responsible for once produced, and for which the ACTION that creates life is both expected and encouraged by the contract in so far as it allows for an end to that contract if there is a SEXUAL breach,, such as adultery IM all for a contract that takes no consideration of sexual relations, but affords the same 'rights' in the eyes of the law As we know, in certain states, gay couples are allowed to marry. I believe that it will slowly happen in other states as well. |
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too. I was taught the same, but judging 'people' is not the same as being able to discern right and wrong actions and words, or healthy and unhealthy practices and behaviors sitting 'in judgment' to me would be to make homosexuality illegal which I Would never support I just dont support the insane attempt to completely ELIMINATE any aknowledgement of the different potential impact a homosexual union has on society than a heterosexual union, or trying to ignore the difference altogether between the ANATOMIES and the potential they alone offer up or DONT offer up,,, |
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Most of the people I know in my age group (50's to 70's) have a "live and let live" attitude towards gay people and same-sex marriage. We've all been through many different changes in society...The only time I see opposition to same-sex marriage is on TV at times. (When "talking heads" and pundits start talking about it.)...I was raised by Catholic parents. My parents didn't think the church's stance on birth control was practical or realistic. (For modern times.)...I was encouraged to question everything in life. (Even church dogma if it didn't seem "quite right" to me.) Thank you for sharing this. It gives me hope in the goodness of people. And now that you mention it, I have known some 70 and 80 year old people who have a much broader and open perspective on things. (And some who are as entrenched in their beliefs as ever). |
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Interesting responses...I guess our views depend on what we've been taught to believe. (By our parents and family or our church or our community at large etc.)... My church never discussed homosexuals. There was no "gay-bashing." Everyone seemed to assume that a certain percentage of people were born with an attraction to members of their same-sex. So it wasn't viewed as an actual "choice" per se. (And other people didn't really "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex.)...We are all born with natural inclinations. I wasn't taught to persecute or judge homosexuals. I was taught that some people are born with different preferences...I grew-up in a "melting pot" type of area and a middle class suburb in So CA back in the 50's and 60's. My parents taught me to be respectful of everyone..I begged my parents to let me work at our local library when I was only fifteen and a half. (I loved books and was an avid reader.)...Anyway there was an obviously gay young man who worked at our library. He had a supervisory position. ..Everyone loved and respected him. He didn't get any "flack" even though it was rare to run into gay people in our area. (Or "obviously gay people" anyway.)...The librarian was a very nice and caring man too but he had different ways. He'd probably be called a "nerd" today. (Or an "absent minded professor" or ??)...I was glad I worked at the library when he found "true love." He was in his 40's when he married his "match." (A highly intelligent woman.)...Anyway my parents taught me not to sit in judgement of other people. (To respect and celebrate "differences.") And this is what my church taught me too. I do agree that homophobia is learned from the environment that people grow up in, much like racism and anti-semitism. However, some people who are able to think for themselves, rather than rely solely on what they're taught by parents/church/whoever are able to get away from spewing that hatred and actually learn for themselves that just because someone is different, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad or wrong. I agree. I dont believe in 'bad' people, just 'bad' choices. |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. its not an 'ability' , its a contract the contract is set aside for heterosexual unions, the potential within which can create LIFE for which those in the contract can be legally responsible for once produced, and for which the ACTION that creates life is both expected and encouraged by the contract in so far as it allows for an end to that contract if there is a SEXUAL breach,, such as adultery IM all for a contract that takes no consideration of sexual relations, but affords the same 'rights' in the eyes of the law As we know, in certain states, gay couples are allowed to marry. I believe that it will slowly happen in other states as well. I have no doubt it will either. As I said, the WORLD is taking over and anything outside of theft and murder(or any other thing that can be proven to be immediately 'detrimental' to another party) will slowly become acceptable and supported especially if it makes people 'feel good' in the moment....and they are consenting adults... |
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Most of the people I know in my age group (50's to 70's) have a "live and let live" attitude towards gay people and same-sex marriage. We've all been through many different changes in society...The only time I see opposition to same-sex marriage is on TV at times. (When "talking heads" and pundits start talking about it.)...I was raised by Catholic parents. My parents didn't think the church's stance on birth control was practical or realistic. (For modern times.)...I was encouraged to question everything in life. (Even church dogma if it didn't seem "quite right" to me.) Thank you for sharing this. It gives me hope in the goodness of people. And now that you mention it, I have known some 70 and 80 year old people who have a much broader and open perspective on things. (And some who are as entrenched in their beliefs as ever). I dont think its radical to believe that sodomy is unhealthy and has NONE of the social benefit of heterosexual activity it would be radical to take away peoples 'right' to use their body or let it be used however they choose its not radical to refuse to support government SANCTIONING and supporting whatever choice they want to make, let alone eliminating the difference between how SIGNIFICANT heterosexual unions are to LIFE ITSELF,( and therefore the society that is filled with individual LIVES), compared to any other union,,,, ,,two different extremes |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. its not an 'ability' , its a contract What a strange false dichotomy. Marriage involves a contract. There is a marriage contract. There is also the 'ability' to get married. The existence of a marriage contract in no way impacts the meaning of validity of the statement you are responding to. The existence of a marriage contract doesn't change the fact that some have the ability to get married, and some do not. Many people also have the worldview that ability to get married is also a right. The existence of a marriage contract in no way reduces the merit of this point of view. IM all for a contract that takes no consideration of sexual relations, but affords the same 'rights' in the eyes of the law So you just don't want that contract to carry the label 'marriage' ? |
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Many in the anti-gay crowd don't even realize how they have internalized a hateful position.
Many in the pro-same-gender-marriage crowd don't even realize how they are projecting hate onto people who aren't hating. I agree, but just because you don't feel animus doesn't mean you aren't engaged in a hateful act. Consider white slave owners. Many didn't feel hatred towards black people any more than you might feel hatred towards your dog; many told themselves that they loved their slaves. And yet, they embraced and propagated social institutions that were 'hateful'. Many fundamentalists who think that gay people should be 2nd class citizens are engaged in a hateful act. Gays and activists are right to call them out on it. |
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when did marriage become a 'right'? if it is a 'right' why does it have ANY limitations on it? such as familial relationship or marital status? by definition, if it involves a CONTRACT it is not a 'right' Either way, why are you trying to take the ability to marry away from gay people? I understand that you don't agree with it, but that's certainly not a reason to deny people the ability to marry. Not one person has been able to explain clearly how it affects their life in a way that is detrimental to them. its not an 'ability' , its a contract What a strange false dichotomy. Marriage involves a contract. There is a marriage contract. There is also the 'ability' to get married. The existence of a marriage contract in no way impacts the meaning of validity of the statement you are responding to. The existence of a marriage contract doesn't change the fact that some have the ability to get married, and some do not. Many people also have the worldview that ability to get married is also a right. The existence of a marriage contract in no way reduces the merit of this point of view. IM all for a contract that takes no consideration of sexual relations, but affords the same 'rights' in the eyes of the law So you just don't want that contract to carry the label 'marriage' ? exactly IF the objective is equal 'rights' let the contract reflect those issues without regard to sex marriage is a contract which assumes a sexual relationship,,governments encouraging those involved in heterosexual relationships to commit to each other has sound reasoning (potential new lives) encouraging those involved in homosexual relationships to commit doesnt have any sound basis besides forcing acceptance and validity of a sexual CHOICE that has no social significance,,, |
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Many in the anti-gay crowd don't even realize how they have internalized a hateful position.
Many in the pro-same-gender-marriage crowd don't even realize how they are projecting hate onto people who aren't hating. I agree, but just because you don't feel animus doesn't mean you aren't engaged in a hateful act. Consider white slave owners. Many didn't feel hatred towards black people any more than you might feel hatred towards your dog; many told themselves that they loved their slaves. And yet, they embraced and propagated social institutions that were 'hateful'. Many fundamentalists who think that gay people should be 2nd class citizens are engaged in a hateful act. Gays and activists are right to call them out on it. gays are male and female, they arent second class, nor are they SPECIAL they should be afforded any rights other males and females are afforded their BEHAVIOR is acceptable for some and not for others, but it is still their business and their CHOICE they should have every RIGHT to choose their sexual behavior that heterosexuals have,, and they do however, that doesnt mean they earn a special privilege of bypassing the gender nature of marriage Im an 'activist' for civil unions, which can include all the privileges of a marriage I wonder why so many still would not find that sufficient when they claim it is about equal 'rights'? |
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