craven in the bible means carved image. statue. false God

Thanks Lulu. One more of my ignorances bites the dust. I never realized it was graven, not craven before. Talk about a very long Duhh period of time.

heh...your welcome...

Besides we don't carve them we melt down the gold we steal from the peasants and pour it into molds..those saints gotta shine!!

yah graven . thats it. oops.

if you are really confused about why Catholics do things in their traditions, you may want to read the book, I highly reccommend it. As a Catholic, I read it when I wanted to know more about my traditions of the Church and found it to be very helpful.

Just as a side note...who founded your church? I only write this to point out that no matter what any other Christian sect may postulate, the Catholic Church is the only church with direct liniage to Jesus Christ- that is why the Pope said what he said. It's only what many other Christian churches have been preaching against all other religions since they began.

Lsnshyne97 said: "you may want to read the book"

What book? I think you forgot to mention the books name.

organized religion === the root of all evil

sorry...here is the book:

What Catholics Really Believe-Setting the Record Straight: 52 Answers to Common Misconceptions About the Catholic Faith
By Karl Keating

and another one
Why Do Catholics Do That? by Kevin Orlin Johnson

but my favorite is...
The Catholic Response
by Peter M. J. Stravinskas

You can go on Amazon and grab these books which are well priced. Good Luck!

If you are concerned about Catholic doctrine as it applies to Christianity, the only "true" source to consult would be the Bible. I wouldn't concern myself with the pope and what he says, at least not on a spiritual level. I'd be more concerned about his influence on the political plane. I've always been concerned when churches emphasize rituals and order instead of faith and a personal relationship with the divine.

If there is major dissention among 'religious' folks, then I think that situation is not coming from love, but from ego.

I'm so glad that I've been saved,...

















...from Christianity


:o)

abra you are naughty! bad abra!

Lsnshyne97,

Thank you for the book name. I read the first few pages on Amazon.com and have to take issue with all of the points, but point 3 in particular.

The suggestion is that the Church was founded as a monarchy, with Peter (and his succssors) at the head, the verse reference they offer for this is Matthew 16:19, which reads "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." "Thee" is the plural form of "you", in Greek, it's "soi". This statement wasn't directed at Peter, it was directed at all of the diciples. Jesus was saying that the keys of heaven belong to those who accept Jesus as the Messiah, which is supported throughout the NT where believers are described as being the heirs of the Kingdom of God. Also, if you look at Matthew 16:18, you will see that the pronouns are plural, Jesus wasn't saying that Peter (Petros) was the rock, he was speaking to all the diciples. In Greek, Jesus said: "And (actually, this could be "but", since "de" is most commonly translated as "but") I say also unto thee (all of you), That thou (you) art Petros (a detached, movable rock), and upon this Petra (unmovable rock) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Jesus is telling the diciples that they are all small rocks, but that He (Jesus) is the foundation upon which the church will be built. Throughout the Bible, Jesus is called the rock. Moses had to be placed within a rock to protect him from God's Glory. We know that only those we are in Jesus will be safe from God's Glory, which is described as a "consuming fire". If you look for "Rock" in the NT, you will find that "petra" is used in discribing Jesus a dozen times or more.

Nicolaitan = nikao (Overcome) + laos (People, root word for laity). The Catholic Church defines Nicolaitan as someone who is sexually immoral, but the word clearly means someone who places himself above other people. The entire structure of the Catholic church is built to place the priests, bishops, Cadinals and Pope above the laity. Point 3 in the book you cited states just that, that they Pope is the monoarch of the Church.

Uh-oh... I feel a controversial statement coming...

The Catholic Church has ALWAYS been more about control of it's followers than actual faith in the lord. Why else have a hierarchy and give the excuse that "everyone else would just misinterpret religious documents" so you don't do your own research.

I don't hate the Catholic Church and certainly not Catholics, however this doesn't surprise me. I thought this was their opinion before the pope's statements came out anyway.

but i don't believe in h-e-double-toothpicks!

But do you believe in h-e-double hockey sticks??

nope, not even double-h-sticks!!

i don't believe in damnation. i believe in Rowan Atkinson.

You believe in Mr. Bean?




I prefer him as Edmund Blackadder.

did you ever see the "Welcome to Hell" sketch?
If No, Goto page 1.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then Spidercmb...because I read that same verse regarding Peter and received something completely different from it.

I was just trying to be helpful in giving you a different perspective w/ books. I myself have not spent an exorbitant amount of study in my education on religion- particularly in apologetics. However, When I was going through adult conversion,because Catholicism it was not something I was brought up to believe, I read a lot and surrounded myself with people I found to be knowledgeable about the faith. The rest is semantics...one thing is for sure, Catholics are just as much in-tune to having a personal relationship with JC as any other Christian sect.