Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Religion is Child Abuse?
xander21 Joined Fri 03/30/12 Posts: 3	Sat 03/31/12 09:02 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science".

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:03 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". And when it comes down to history in general, you are placing your faith in it's validity and believing what they tell you is true. For you have absolutely no way to prove something happened 1000 years ago using science as I can't prove without a doubt the things in the scriptures are true. Just in our society, if historians say it's true, it's normally just taken as true. But again outside of the historian saying it's true, you have absolutely no way to know it truly is.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Sat 03/31/12 09:04 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:07 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose? No, my apologies for that. Was discussing what was said, not specifically the topic of the thread. But I ask you this, how is it abusive? Doesn't matter if one's parents believe in a religion or not. If they force or continuously make their child feel guilty using a religion, that is that parent's fault. Not the religious belief in general.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Sat 03/31/12 09:11 AM
Indoctrination of children is horrible. Defending the bible or religion holds no weight.. teaching a child they are a natural enemy to god and a sinner because they are born, is ridiculous. It cannot be defended!

mightymoe Joined Sun 11/19/06 Posts: 37362	Sat 03/31/12 09:13 AM
This was going to be a post in another thread, but i thought it deserved a thread of its own.. Its funny to see people arguing over things written in Genesis. Arguing like they truly believe that the story is real. Actually, it isn't funny at all, its a massive shame. Its a shame that their brains have been so polluted that they cannot see what is obvious to many others(that being that the story is just a story, which even many religious people acknowledge). It is a shame that no matter how much evidence and logic is put before them, that they will keep on believing. The biggest shame of all, is that when these people have children, they will indoctrinate the same rubbish into their babies tiny brains, and they'll grow up as misguided as them. And the vicious cycle continues to continue. This is one major reason why so many people in the world believe so much in their imaginary friend they call God. This is nothing short of Child Abuse. The abused grow up and keep abusing, and they think its perfectly normal. Installing religion into a childs gullible mind, is wrong, and abusive. Agree or Disagree? And I can say the same for the other side of the coin here. Installing atheism into a dhilds gullible mind, is wrong, and abusive. truth is subjective... i do not believe in god, but i never told my kids that, they can make up their own minds on the matter. but if they ask me, i would tell them my thoughts on it. but i think telling someone that they will "burn in hell" is just stupid.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:14 AM
Indoctrination of children is horrible. Defending the bible or religion holds no weight.. teaching a child they are a natural enemy to god and a sinner because they are born, is ridiculous. It cannot be defended! Yes that would be bad, if that was the case.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Sat 03/31/12 09:16 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose? No, my apologies for that. Was discussing what was said, not specifically the topic of the thread. But I ask you this, how is it abusive? Doesn't matter if one's parents believe in a religion or not. If they force or continuously make their child feel guilty using a religion, that is that parent's fault. Not the religious belief in general. Many religious beliefs are abusive in themselves. Burning in hell for eternity, the stoning of heathens, of gays etc etc etc Many many beliefs within the bible and other scriptures are truly awful.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:16 AM
This was going to be a post in another thread, but i thought it deserved a thread of its own.. Its funny to see people arguing over things written in Genesis. Arguing like they truly believe that the story is real. Actually, it isn't funny at all, its a massive shame. Its a shame that their brains have been so polluted that they cannot see what is obvious to many others(that being that the story is just a story, which even many religious people acknowledge). It is a shame that no matter how much evidence and logic is put before them, that they will keep on believing. The biggest shame of all, is that when these people have children, they will indoctrinate the same rubbish into their babies tiny brains, and they'll grow up as misguided as them. And the vicious cycle continues to continue. This is one major reason why so many people in the world believe so much in their imaginary friend they call God. This is nothing short of Child Abuse. The abused grow up and keep abusing, and they think its perfectly normal. Installing religion into a childs gullible mind, is wrong, and abusive. Agree or Disagree? And I can say the same for the other side of the coin here. Installing atheism into a dhilds gullible mind, is wrong, and abusive. truth is subjective... i do not believe in god, but i never told my kids that, they can make up their own minds on the matter. but if they ask me, i would tell them my thoughts on it. but i think telling someone that they will "burn in hell" is just stupid. Oh definitly stupid. And if one says that to another, they are just as guilty as the one they are saying it to. Judge not less ye be judged For we know not what anyone's judgement is going to be. Even if they don't believe in God. Yes, we have generally what that judgement MAY be, but we know not of what that judgement will be.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Sat 03/31/12 09:17 AM
Indoctrination of children is horrible. Defending the bible or religion holds no weight.. teaching a child they are a natural enemy to god and a sinner because they are born, is ridiculous. It cannot be defended! Yes that would be bad, if that was the case. If you would open your mind and research you will see it IS the case cowboy! Are we not born into the original sin? Are we not natural enemies to god? This is in your bible! Do not start throwing scriptures out at me....

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:20 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose? No, my apologies for that. Was discussing what was said, not specifically the topic of the thread. But I ask you this, how is it abusive? Doesn't matter if one's parents believe in a religion or not. If they force or continuously make their child feel guilty using a religion, that is that parent's fault. Not the religious belief in general. Many religious beliefs are abusive in themselves. Burning in hell for eternity, the stoning of heathens, of gays etc etc etc Many many beliefs within the bible and other scriptures are truly awful. No one will ever burn in hell for eternity. Hell will be destroyed in the end of times. It will be thrown into the lake of fire. And no one said being thrown into the lake of fire will be an everlasting torture. It says "This is known as the second death". If one is dead, one wouldn't be tortured, now would they? And no one better stone anyone anymore, for Jesus is our judge. And the scriptures referring to the stoning and what not was when the world was very remotely populated. It's not like they were just going around stoning everyone, stoning was the last option if the person refused to turn from that which was in question.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:23 AM
Indoctrination of children is horrible. Defending the bible or religion holds no weight.. teaching a child they are a natural enemy to god and a sinner because they are born, is ridiculous. It cannot be defended! Yes that would be bad, if that was the case. If you would open your mind and research you will see it IS the case cowboy! Are we not born into the original sin? Are we not natural enemies to god? This is in your bible! Do not start throwing scriptures out at me.... We are not born into the original sin. Please give me a verse that says we are born into the "original" sin. The only time the "original" sin had any power over us in anyway, was in the old covenant. Where sins continued down from generation to generation until forgiveness was sought and given. We are not born natural enemies to God. We are not born sinful. We become sinful when we ourselves start disobeying God. And I don't know the exact time one starts to be accountable for their own actions, but a child is inocent. They know not of what they do.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Sat 03/31/12 09:26 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose? No, my apologies for that. Was discussing what was said, not specifically the topic of the thread. But I ask you this, how is it abusive? Doesn't matter if one's parents believe in a religion or not. If they force or continuously make their child feel guilty using a religion, that is that parent's fault. Not the religious belief in general. Many religious beliefs are abusive in themselves. Burning in hell for eternity, the stoning of heathens, of gays etc etc etc Many many beliefs within the bible and other scriptures are truly awful. No one will ever burn in hell for eternity. Hell will be destroyed in the end of times. It will be thrown into the lake of fire. And no one said being thrown into the lake of fire will be an everlasting torture. It says "This is known as the second death". If one is dead, one wouldn't be tortured, now would they? And no one better stone anyone anymore, for Jesus is our judge. And the scriptures referring to the stoning and what not was when the world was very remotely populated. It's not like they were just going around stoning everyone, stoning was the last option if the person refused to turn from that which was in question. The New Testament is less awful but it is hardly pleasant. You believe in Genesis(it was your posts i was reading when i was inspired to write my original post), so you must also think the entire old testament is justified and true, or do you pick and choose the nice bits? I know Jesus changed a few things about but you cant argue that its all nice and about love, can you?

metalwing Joined Fri 11/14/08 Posts: 26218	Sat 03/31/12 09:28 AM
I think you should look at the big picture. I went to Church as a child but my parents did not tell me what to think. Later in life, my dad told me it was my responsibility to learn and choose my directions. Mankind has had religion since the beginnings of what we can dig up. One could say it is part of what makes us unique. Since it has such a long history as being part of our daily lives, it is hard to understand how one could say it is alien, harmful, or damaging. There are religions who preach to kill, throw virgins in volcanoes, and cut out the hearts of men out while they are still alive. Just as with men, all are not good. Within each branch of any religion there are those who are sick and demented and should not be allowed in any society. But that is just the statistics of mankind and the way it has always been. Teaching religion is usually good, for it teaches moral behaviors as the right way to live. It has worked for thousands of years. Teaching a child to strap on a bomb ... That's evil.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Sat 03/31/12 09:33 AM
Mankind has had religion since the beginnings of what we can dig up. One could say it is part of what makes us unique. Since it has such a long history as being part of our daily lives, it is hard to understand how one could say it is alien, harmful, or damaging. One only needs to look at the state of the world to understand how it has been damaging. Eons of indoctrination has not served us well. No difference between teaching a kid to make a bomb and teaching a kid to use a gun to kill.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Sat 03/31/12 09:34 AM Edited by Dan99 on Sat 03/31/12 09:35 AM
I think you should look at the big picture. I went to Church as a child but my parents did not tell me what to think. Later in life, my dad told me it was my responsibility to learn and choose my directions. Mankind has had religion since the beginnings of what we can dig up. One could say it is part of what makes us unique. Since it has such a long history as being part of our daily lives, it is hard to understand how one could say it is alien, harmful, or damaging. There are religions who preach to kill, throw virgins in volcanoes, and cut out the hearts of men out while they are still alive. Just as with men, all are not good. Within each branch of any religion there are those who are sick and demented and should not be allowed in any society. But that is just the statistics of mankind and the way it has always been. Teaching religion is usually good, for it teaches moral behaviors as the right way to live. It has worked for thousands of years. Teaching a child to strap on a bomb ... That's evil. People dont need religion to have morals, including children. Whilst not all religious people are bad, or immoral, the number of bad things done in the name of religion is massive. So teaching religion, in my view, is generally bad. I have never heard of anyone doing anything bad in the name of athiesm.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:35 AM
Very true, but one thing I have always argued with my parents on. Is this, as a scientist, I can say "Aha new data, WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT". This is because religion was created as an early form of government. Science is the quest for knowledge, it is adaptable, agile and evolves as we learn more. By its very nature, religion is stagnant and unchanging, because the idea of a monotheistic god figure is absolute, unchanging. etc. I know some polytheistic religions that have a more adaptable ideological structure but still no real evidence. And that there is the problem - evidence - evidence to support the claims made by religions and the subscribers to religions can not adequately compete with the evidence and theories that advances in science have proven true, or at least consistent when applied. But science and religion truly can't be compared all that much. Now please keep in mind I'm stating this from a Christian aspect, and not from a general "religion" aspect, for I don't know an entire lot about the different religious beliefs. But the scriptures we have don't tell about molecules, cells, ect. That is where science is good. For it has allowed us to progress much as a civilization in general. But as for the creation of us and the world as a general aspect, even science places it as a "theory". And a theory all in all is nothing more then an educated guess. It's not an exact without a doubt fact. And the scriptures and or the belief in general is about things that happened in the past eg., "history". Or things that are to come. So again, has really not much to do with "science". Why are you turning this into a religion versus science discussion? This thread is about how religion abuses(Or doesnt abuse depending on your view) children. Are you trying to divert the attention away from child abuse on purpose? No, my apologies for that. Was discussing what was said, not specifically the topic of the thread. But I ask you this, how is it abusive? Doesn't matter if one's parents believe in a religion or not. If they force or continuously make their child feel guilty using a religion, that is that parent's fault. Not the religious belief in general. Many religious beliefs are abusive in themselves. Burning in hell for eternity, the stoning of heathens, of gays etc etc etc Many many beliefs within the bible and other scriptures are truly awful. No one will ever burn in hell for eternity. Hell will be destroyed in the end of times. It will be thrown into the lake of fire. And no one said being thrown into the lake of fire will be an everlasting torture. It says "This is known as the second death". If one is dead, one wouldn't be tortured, now would they? And no one better stone anyone anymore, for Jesus is our judge. And the scriptures referring to the stoning and what not was when the world was very remotely populated. It's not like they were just going around stoning everyone, stoning was the last option if the person refused to turn from that which was in question. The New Testament is less awful but it is hardly pleasant. You believe in Genesis(it was your posts i was reading when i was inspired to write my original post), so you must also think the entire old testament is justified and true, or do you pick and choose the nice bits? I know Jesus changed a few things about but you cant argue that its all nice and about love, can you? Nice, love, good, ect are all prespective and the way one looks at it. For instance, Jesus being crucified, the first thought is tragic, evil, discusting, hanging a man on a cross to bleed out. But when I think of the crucifiction, i think of beauty. Yes the action itself was bloody, gory, and not to pleasant. But i know from the day forth I was forgiven of my sins before I even came into existence. Jesus gave his life so I could keep mine. A totally inocent man was hung in my place of the evils actions I have committed in this life. And no, you can't take what you want out of the scriptures and ignore the rest. If you are truly going to believe in just one part of the scripture you have to believe in the entire collection, or wouldn't make much sense. And Jesus "Changed" nothing. He didn't come here to alter the old laws. He came to complete the old laws. Those laws only held power until the prophesies were fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies, thus making the first covenant obsolete. That is why he gave us a new set of laws, a new covenant.

Ruth34611 Joined Sat 08/02/08 Posts: 32402	Sat 03/31/12 09:38 AM
I am a Catholic raising my children Catholic. No, I don't think I am abusing them.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 03/31/12 09:39 AM
Mankind has had religion since the beginnings of what we can dig up. One could say it is part of what makes us unique. Since it has such a long history as being part of our daily lives, it is hard to understand how one could say it is alien, harmful, or damaging. One only needs to look at the state of the world to understand how it has been damaging. Eons of indoctrination has not served us well. No difference between teaching a kid to make a bomb and teaching a kid to use a gun to kill. Now again since I can't account for all the different beliefs. Just look at the Christian point of view on what you have said. Heck the scriptures teach the same as they teach in elementry about your conduct "treat others the way you wish to be treated". Matthew 7:12 12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Sat 03/31/12 09:42 AM
Mankind has had religion since the beginnings of what we can dig up. One could say it is part of what makes us unique. Since it has such a long history as being part of our daily lives, it is hard to understand how one could say it is alien, harmful, or damaging. One only needs to look at the state of the world to understand how it has been damaging. Eons of indoctrination has not served us well. No difference between teaching a kid to make a bomb and teaching a kid to use a gun to kill. Just look at the Christian point of view on what you have said. I AM!