The Patriot Act, NDAA, SOPA, Obamacare.....just 4 big ones!

How about the federal reserve act? The IRS?

Well, I'm certainly not in favor of the so-called Patriot Act and consider it unconstitutional. But the Federal Reserve Act?? You object to having a central bank? What's that to you? And the IRS, you hate paying taxes, so sad. No taxes would mean no army, you know. No nice highways to drive on.

As far as health insurance, I fail to see why government-mandated health insurance is any different from government-mandated car insurance. Or driver's licenses, for that matter. The idea that this somehow infringes your rights is still a mystery to me.

Everyone wants something for nothing. You want to pay nothing, you get no government at all. AT ALL. I have faith in human nature, but not so much that I think anarchy would work.

I do not know what school your child attends and I am going to guesse that your talking about school lunches.

Granted its not farm fresh as are the things I harvest from my large summer garden however it does have nutritional value. My kids schools have allways had lunch options the main menua item or the salad bar with boiled eggs cheese and other toppings.

I have never been poor enough for my kids to get a "free lunch" but I am glad that the kids who are poor can get it, after all these are our future citizens, they need to grow strong and healthy.

Closing the federal reserve would increase the value of our dollar and allow for the United States to quit supporting and bailing out failing institutions by returning to a gold standard. No one said anything about not paying taxes. Reducing the federal government thus it would put power of government back into the hand of the states where it belongs. No one wants anarchy, but the right to freedom and making the federal government adhere to the constitution and bill of rights.

I just don't see what having or not having a central bank has to do with "freedom." And returning to the gold standard? Come on, not gonna happen. No way that is fluid enough for the electronic age.

Someone did complain about the IRS, and usually those people don't believe in paying taxes. If that's not what it's about, then what is it?

Quote its about minimizing the Federal Government and allowing the states to implement the taxes and run program if they wish to or not. Having the States take over collecting the taxes. Removing the Federal government from that which they were never meant to be involved in to begin with. People will still have to pay Federal taxes for what the government is meant to do. Giving back the states their sovereignty.

How about the fact that they will CONTROL what medical care you get and how much of it? That do anything for you?

Some of the comments in this thread really make me sad......we're so far gone and have nary a clue that we are. Not even sure why I come here for this.

It's not even just school lunches, but it's our food as a whole. They already are poisoning it all, and left unchecked it will only get worse.

I'm surprised at you really, I thought you knew better than to try to argue what you are arguing.

I volunteer at the school, 34 hours so far this year, 12 in the cafeteria during the have lunch with your child day. They have quite a few choices.....frozen baked chicken nuggets, frozen pizza, they do have salads for the adults. They do carry some alternatives, fruits(some fresh) and veggies (mostly canned), but I wouldn't call it wholly nutritious in my opinion. Yes, its great the programs for the poverty level families. Here the send home breakfast and lunch meals for they weekend with some. They, also, have a summer program. These are pretty much state run program though.

Te central banks are a privately owned cartel printing the money of nations without regulation or audit. The paper they print is backed by nothing but ink, yet whatever they print is "loaned" to the nation AT INTEREST to the tax payers of that nation. The IRS was created as their muscle to assure they got their payments....the IRS is the loan sharks for the central banks, and NOT part of the gov't!

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/fedreservebankexplained19dec05.shtml

Your comment evokes a very frightening consequence of incompetence... but really, our legislatures often demonstrate frightening degrees of incompetence mixed with greed. I'm not trying to say that one is intrinsically better than the other...just saying that I enjoyed your comment, even if I don't fully agree with it.

no problem

the government (people) we elect come from the citizenry and reflect every strength and weakness citizens in general have

I stand by my belief that citizens are no less incompetent than those they elect and that I would not want the undereducated, untravelled, entitled, over sexed and overly dependent upon violence as solutions

to be running the environment I raise my children in,,,

The main thing which both annoys and saddens me about these discussions is that the people with the most adamant positions constantly provide references which all stem from the same source. One cannot see the full picture without looking at all angles, and that means researching and understanding several opposing viewpoints.

For instance, those who are anti-Federal-Reserve don't seem to realize that the Federal Reserve is the only reason why we are not currently mired in a depression. It's regulation of monetary supply compared to economic growth utilizes inflation as a stave against deflation. Deflation happens when the economy shrinks rather than grows. The economy will often shrink in response to hyper-inflation which causes a collapse of the consumer market, i.e. a severe drop in consumerism leads to economic shrinkage but hyper-inflation often acts as a catalyst. The Federal Reserve prevents hyper-inflation from occurring because hyper-inflation is directly related to monetary supply. Interest rates are used to create more disposable income without increasing monetary supply - a lateral shift meant to encourage growth while limiting inflation. So, interest rates, just like monetary supply, are linked to the rate of economic growth. So long as economic growth remains positive, we are able to avoid a depression.

The problem with the current rate of government spending is that it has increased at a pace much greater than economic growth thereby placing a strain on our economy. Additionally, the federal deficit is money currently in circulation watering down currency value because it increases inflation. Paying off the deficit would remove this money from circulation, thereby curbing inflation.

This watered down currency is the fault of George W. Bush who advocated a weaker dollar, and who was placing other weak-dollar advocates on his Cabinet staff prior to even being sworn in. We were already headed toward a recession when Bush took office, but his policies combined with 9/11, war, and a number of corporate scandals have increased both the severity and length of the economic slowdown. It is also why some nations feel it is the U.S. economy that is currently weighing down the global economy.

By all rights, we should be in a depression right now. The bailouts were a sign in evidence of that. The government is only one part of the problem. Business practices, both ethical and unethical, are another part of the problem. And then there is the problem of consumer debt with private citizens living outside their means. In other words, we all have behavior which needs to change. It's not all on one group.

Lew Rockwell - founder of the Ludwig von Mises Institute - maintains that governments do nothing but drain the economy, regardless of ideology. Despite masking as a libertarian, he is actually advocating anarchy because he wants to abolish the state as a means of enhancing economy.

I, on the other hand, believe that while a government can be a drain on the economy, it can also be a stabilizing force when run properly. The latter is of benefit to - and in the best interests of - national society. That just so happens to be the mission of government in general: to secure and preserve the common welfare of its citizens.

So, Mr. Rockwell and myself are in opposition to each other, regardless of any other libertarian ideals.

That said, I have noted in my research that Ron Paul does not appear to subscribe fully to Lew Rockwell's school of thought. Instead, Ron Paul advocates States' Rights - a long debated concept in American history which has twice been tested, and twice failed. The first being under the Articles of Confederation. The second being under the Confederate States of America. It's a simple matter of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Or to use another cliche, too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Iagree with many things Dr Paul says but I also think many government agencies are verry helpfull.

I am pretty sure most of us can agree social security is a good thing.

Food stamps for the poor are a good thing. Imagine millions of hungry people begging for food.
Latest figures show 45.8 million by the way.

Sure it would be great to do away with the patriot act and homeland security and all the survalience apparatus put in place after 911 but RP would toss the baby out with the bathwater.


The problemb as I see it is the collusion of International Corperations and government.

Big bussiness gets elected those who favor them and then when out of office they go work for them and get even richer.

Yes the system is broken and corrupt but so are most americans because we are getting the government we deserve.

We are a dumbed down stupified nation and I have no idea how to fix it without breaking it.

Personaly I am sitting fairly pretty 20 years on a union job kids almost raised less than ten years till my house is paid off blah blah I know I am lucky and not any better than anyone one else and my position in this economy is the exception and not the rule.

I have had friends removed from non union jobs because they were a month away from a vested pension I have friends with degrees changeing tires on cars for a little over minimum wage.

I saw a guy on probation at my work get let go because he missed two days while on probation and was ten hours away from being in the Union watched him cry as he walked to his car and my heart ached for him knoweing how hard it is to find a job and he was let go.

For most the american dream is dead but all the while the rich have gotten richer so go figure its pretty simple.

Yes the system is broken and corrupt but so are most americans because we are getting the government we deserve.

We are a dumbed down stupified nation and I have no idea how to fix it without breaking it.

Ditto.

It's not often Bestinshow and I agree, but on this we do.

In a few posts, I have mentioned that I noticed a trend 20 years ago - towards the end of high school through exiting college. This is partly what I noticed, and little has changed since.

It's going to be a long bumpy ride. Before it's over, a lot of Americans are going to be at odds with each other. It's going to be a battle of attrition, metaphorically speaking.

That's what I see coming.

actually you're seeing the worst of the Government One Percent!

The Government you want to have in more and more Affairs of the Citizen!

http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-Is-the-1-Percent

Gonna be real fun when the Majority is working for Government!

Bull! Social security, is one example (of many) of them stealing our money, that we work our butts off for. Doesn't matter if we get it back or not later (and we don't even get it all back), they are ROBBING it from us. So no, I don't agree it is a good thing at all.

I was going to say that since it was passed by our elected representatives and has not ever been deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, it's incorrect to call it "robbing." However, on further thought, I see that the real problem is that you have absolutely no intellectual or emotional investment in the philosophy of democratic government at all. This seems to be true of a lot of people nowadays. I'm not sure why. I'm curious if you vote?

Well, the way I read it, part of the purpose of the Federal Reserve Act is specifically to regulate banking. And don't be silly, paper money is backed by the credit-worthiness of the United States.

The IRS was created to collect taxes. That is different from regulating fiscal policy. Taxes are where governments get the means to function at all.
To say the IRS isn't part of the government is just silly.

This stuff has been in effect for a century, so I keep wondering when people are going to get over it.