sometimes it happens with large groups of people who have started to feel they have little to lose,,,


all those types of people were also part of the tea party movement, especially strict constitutionalists who believe their right to bear arms is needed in case of government infringement,, ID say they probably would support violence to support their agenda too

most importantly though, whatever side of the fence one falls on, the reality is that media can and does sometimes have an agenda,

and we just need to accept reality that we will always have the violent and the peaceful, the law abiding and the non law abiding, the bigoted and non bigoted,,etc,,

and no group, without fences and security, could reasonably be expected to keep them all out,,

I stated the activity that I found inspiring - which is criminalized in several different ways:



The actual charges filed could range from loitering, or obstructing a sidewalk, or assembling without a permit, or being in a particular public space past a defined time period, or even obstructing justice.

To the OWS criminals!

But not that jackass crapping on a cop car. If he doesn't have some several clinically recognized mental problems, then he should be punished.

Some of the charges are VERY serious charges like SEVERAL incidents Sexual Assault and other violent crimes and using your children as human shields.

People will be people, good and bad. Crime happens, on both sides.

If people had nothing to rebel against, we had our freedoms, our rights, our liberties and equality, they wouldn't be there...

so who is to blame really?!

Stereotyping and tunnel vision! The media uses it well to keep us focused off the BIG picture here!

ha.. ha.. ha..

Have you ascertained these opinions based on what you read in the leftist media?

So you approve of those behavior? Obstructing traffic, disturbing the peace, violating curfews and even obstructing justice?

Let me ask you a question: Do you think people should need permits to use public property or anyone be allowed to organize events there anytime?

Take your meds dude! It's media hype! Propoganda! Because police brutality isn't working!

BTW.... ever hear of "Photoshop"?

One of the most interesting effects of the lack of principles is the activities one will endorse. There can be little doubt that if the Tea Parties had been as violent and out of control as the OWS, that movement would have lost it's conservative and libertarian support immediately. Not because the conservatives and libertarians wouldn't agree with the goals, but because they wouldn't want to be associated with the people. The kind of people with whom you associate speaks volumes to your own character. Jesus might have associated with prostitutes and tax collectors, but he certainly wasn't there in the bedroom or the alleyway when the deed was done. To be present at the commission of a crime and to associate with the criminals implies support for the behavior.

Hmmmmm... seems I heard that talk somewhere in a 1940's video I watched with a small little man and a funny looking moustache....

So if they're not tea partyers they are criminals, and we what?.... lock up the world? Then who pays the bills?... you?

Get a clue! They are AMERICANS with as much rights and as many faults as YOU, but I think I'll put my vote behind them 1st!

You have amazed me with your debate skills. I state that Conservatives and Libertarians wouldn't associate with criminals while they are in the commission of the crime and you accuse me of being like Hitler. Perhaps you need to read up on Godwin's law.



Straw man fallacy, I said nothing of the kind.



The social compact under which we all live limits the "rights" of criminals. The laws of the cities with the "occupy" movements require permits for large public gatherings. I have my share of faults, but I don't flaunt the law, defecate in public and generally make a nuisance of myself.

There are absolutely no criminals in the tea Party..... hmmmm... I missed that memo I guess!

Guilty till proven innocent? I missed that memo too!

The "powers that be" have done EVERYTHING in their power to victimize the OWS protestors!

Took away generators (now returned by lawyer intervention)
Limited "sanitary" stations and availability to them!

Police "escorts" have led marchers into areas SO THEY COULD ARREST THEM!

And on and on!

These "powers that be" are supposed to work for US, or why are we paying them? If they were upholding our 1st amendment rights, all these things would be made available to the protesters and the police (for the most part) would be facing the other direction!

I support their right to protest and I even agree that a limited first amendment is rearing its ugly head in where and what they are allowed to be and do.

But that is as far I as go.

These people are the antithesis of what Ron Paul or any other non confiscatory thinking person stands for.

If these ideas they are pursuing ever happen you can absolutely kiss any form of constitutionally based republic good bye..

And that is where the line must be drawn.

Make no mistake about it.

Have you ever tried to complain about service somewhere and there is no management around. and you try working your way up the corporate ladder and no matter how hard you try you cant seem to get numbers for anyone. That is what protest is about. One of the problems here is it attracts a bunch of people who are otherwise bumbs and homeless drug addicts who seem to have found a good spot to campout for free and receive the benefits of food and drink and entertainment by the financial supporters of these groups. This is wherein lies the problems of misbehavior and rebellion on both sides. The crowds are large and rude, just like the police force.

Maybe the fact that there are SOOOO many sick and or drug addicted homeless in our streets is another reason these protests are happening.

The people have a gazillion reasons to be pissed and every right to say so!

Turn and face the strange...ch ch changes.
Change is never easy!

OWS is a co-op of people and ideas.

Some want to control it, others lead it, some infiltrate and destroy from within, some simply wish to attach themselves to it for personal reasons (bums and homeless).

Whatever the reasons, the good or the bad, I do truly hope nothing but good comes from it for all our sakes.

The action is good, we the people having a unified voice, protesting the wrongs of society.

I perfer it over revolution and blood in the streets!

Are you asking if I approve categorically? Ever? Often?

Only in the context of OWS?


I strongly approve of many of the specific actions I've observed which have lead to these charges being filed. In some cases, when charged with 'obstructing justice' and 'disturbing the peace', the victim was in no way doing anything wrong, and the courts immediately dismissed charges. The police knew that they could get away with abusing law by hiding behind subjective interpretations of others actions. They know the person is not breaking the law, but they also know that can forcibly remove them from the scene by claiming 'disturbing the peace' and 'obstructing justice'.

I've personally observed such abuses by the police that I no longer assume there is any meaning behind a charge being filed, unless I know supporting facts about the situation from other sources.

In other cases, like loitering and curfew laws, I am pretty much opposed to the law itself, and support people who intentionally break them as part of a means of expressing their opinion that the law is wrong.



That's an interesting question. What is an event? I've organized a bunch of events in public parks without any permits - never more than 20 people, never with loud music, never longer than four hours. I have no idea if I'm breaking the law; such knowledge wouldn't effect my actions; and if so, then I think the law is wrong.


I do think that there is great value in a group of people being willing to ignore the permit process.

I'm just trying to understand your position...

Do you think that the Government should have the authority over and establish laws that require permits for large protests, which will then not be evenly enforced?

True, but being sick and drug addicted is totally unrelated to the cause. Its not a protest for the sick and drug addicted.....its about money.