Morningsong, this is the kind of manipulation of American Christians that tells them to support Zionism and Israel with all their aggression on surrounding countries all these years. It is wrong.

Doesn't it seem a little bit strange to you? It sure does to me.

Judaism does NOT believe in Jesus and if you believe that Jesus is God's only begotten son then you would realize that God would not have a "chosen people" who reject his son. That's from your point of view.

Jews reject Christianity and Jewish Christians living in Israel are treated like third class citizens.

Jews are no God's chosen people. The stories of Abraham, King David, Joshua, Moses and all that follows are all completely fictional.

It is a shame that Christians think they should support political Zionists Jews who would simply spit on their savior.

Where ever you are cutting and pasting that propaganda from, its just bull crap.

This Christian narrative above only points out that according to the
bible the Jews were chosen in the sense the Jewish link above
describes chosen - to be a good example is all.

It is not BS or purely fiction. You just ignore the most likely
interpretations and the most reasonable explanations and instead
rail against atheists who don't exist.



There is no such thing as an atheist jew. The definition of jew is
someone who believes in God!



And Zionism is the same thing as Americanism except it is patriotism
towards Israel instead of American patriotism.

Zionism has no negative connotations either.

There certainly are people living who consider themselves Jews who are atheists. Even people who call themselves Christian Jews, which is like saying you are an atheist Christian. Its absurd.

They think they are a race, which I agree that they are not.

Zionism has loads of negative connotations.

They milk the myth of the Bible to justify their invasion of a country. Its bullchit.

No Jews aren't atheists they are theists. And they recognize that
Judaism is a religion of all races. The articles I cited I found at
Jewish sources which say they are not at race! It was from the
Jewish virtual library!



You are the one who has it all bass-ackwards and mixed up.

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race,

What they say and what they actually practice are two completely different things.

Many people who call themselves Jews do not believe in that religion at all! More than half of all Jews in Israel today call themselves "secular," and don't believe in G-d or any of the religious beliefs of Judaism. Half of all Jews in the United States don't belong to any synagogue. They may practice some of the rituals of Judaism and celebrate some of the holidays, but they don't think of these actions as religious activities.


http://www.photius.com/religion/what_is_a_jew.html

Although I think you selected this out of context in an attempt to
say that Jews are not defined by Judaism, I do think that there is
nothing wrong with this article. I pretty much agree with it. This
Judaism site is actually pretty good - I think I have cited it also
in the past. This article points out that Judaism is also a
cultural heritage beyond the religion. You should also look at
the article "Who is a Jew" from the same website.

What is said is this article is that although the religion of Judaism
is the defining characteristic of being a Jew, that there is a very
wide variation and there is also a historical context to being a
Jew. So it is more than simply the religious observance there is
a historical and cultural aspect of being a Jew as well and that
Jews are often identified by this historical and cultural identity
also. It is a little overbroad a definition for my taste but that's
OK.

Here is the full article though. I think you need to read the whole
thing to put your quote in context.

Also, it looks like this is a copy of the original website.
The original is here it is called jewfaq.org by Tracey Rich.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

What Is Judaism?

Level: Basic

What is Judaism? What does it mean to be a Jew? Most people, both Jewish and gentile, would instinctively say that Judaism is a religion. And yet, there are militant atheists who insist that they are Jews! Is Judaism a race? If you were to say so, most Jews would think you were an antisemite! So what is Judaism?

Is Judaism a Religion?

Clearly, there is a religion called Judaism, a set of ideas about the world and the way we should live our lives that is called "Judaism." It is studied in Religious Studies courses and taught to Jewish children in Hebrew schools. See What do Jews Believe? for details. There is a lot of flexibility about certain aspects of those beliefs, and a lot of disagreement about specifics, but that flexibility is built into the organized system of belief that is Judaism.

However, many people who call themselves Jews do not believe in that religion at all! More than half of all Jews in Israel today call themselves "secular," and don't believe in G-d or any of the religious beliefs of Judaism. Half of all Jews in the United States don't belong to any synagogue. They may practice some of the rituals of Judaism and celebrate some of the holidays, but they don't think of these actions as religious activities.

The most traditional Jews and the most liberal Jews and everyone in between would agree that these secular people are still Jews, regardless of their disbelief. See Who is a Jew? Clearly, then, there is more to being Jewish than just a religion.
Are Jews a Race?

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).

Is It a Culture or Ethnic Group?

Most secular American Jews think of their Jewishness as a matter of culture or ethnicity. When they think of Jewish culture, they think of the food, of the Yiddish language, of some limited holiday observances, and of cultural values like the emphasis on education.

Those secular American Jews would probably be surprised to learn that much of what they think of as Jewish culture is really just Ashkenazic Jewish culture, the culture of Jews whose ancestors come from one part of the world. Jews have lived in many parts of the world and have developed many different traditions. As a Sephardic friend likes to remind me, Yiddish is not part of his culture, nor are bagels and lox, chopped liver, latkes, gefilte fish or matzah ball soup. His idea of Jewish cooking includes bourekas, phyllo dough pastries filled with cheese or spinach. His ancestors probably wouldn't know what to do with a dreidel.

There are certainly cultural traits and behaviors that are shared by many Jews, that make us feel more comfortable with other Jews. Jews in many parts of the world share many of those cultural aspects. However, that culture is not shared by all Jews all over the world, and people who do not share that culture are no less Jews because of it. Thus, Judaism must be something more than a culture or an ethnic group.

The Jews Are a Nation or a People

It is clear from the discussion above that there is a certain amount of truth in the claims that it is a religion, a race, or an ethnic group, none of these descriptions is entirely adequate to describe what connects Jews to other Jews. And yet, almost all Jews feel a sense of connectedness to each other that many find hard to explain, define, or even understand.

The best explanation is the traditional one given in the Torah: that the Jews are a nation. The Hebrew word, believe it or not, is "goy." We use the word "nation" not in the modern sense meaning a territorial and political entity, but in the ancient sense meaning a group of people with a common history, a common destiny, and a sense that we are all connected to each other. We are, in short, an enormous extended family.

Some Jews don't like to use the word "nation." Jews have often been falsely accused of being disloyal to their own country because of their loyalty to the Jewish "nation." Antisemites routinely accuse Jews of being more loyal to Israel than to their home country. But whatever you want to call it, that sense of nationhood or peoplehood is probably the only thing about Judaism that we can all agree on and that we can all relate to. Anyone who feels any sense of Jewish identity shares that sense of Jewish peoplehood.

When we speak of that nation, however, we do not refer to it as "Judaism." We refer to that nation as "the Jewish people" or "the Children of Israel" (a reference to our patriarch, Jacob, also known as Israel).

This notion of Jews as a nation or people encompasses many of the ideas above. As a nation or people, we share common ideas, ancestry, and culture, but there is also room for diversity in each of these areas. The most important part of being a nation is that sense of interconnectedness.

Judaism as a religion is very communally-oriented. For example, our prayers are normally stated in the plural, and we are supposed to pray in communal groups. Many of our holiday observances are family or community-oriented. And yet, even people who are not religious at all feel that sense of Jewish community.

When Jews suffer or are persecuted, we all feel their pain. For example, in the 1980s, when Africa was suffering from droughts and famines, many Jews around the world learned for the first time about the Beta Israel, the Jews of Ethiopia. Their religion, race and culture are quite different from ours, and we had not even known that they existed before the famine. And yet, our hearts went out to them as our fellow Jews during this period of famine, and Jews from around the world helped them to emigrate to Israel.

When a Jew does something illegal, immoral or shameful, we all feel the shame, and we all feel that it reflects on us. As Jews, many of us were embarrassed by the Monica Lewinsky scandal, because Lewinsky is a Jew. We were shocked when Israeli Prime Minister Yitzchak Rabin was killed by a Jew, unable to believe that one Jew would ever kill another.

And when a Jew accomplishes something significant, we all feel proud. A perfect example of Jews (even completely secular ones) delighting in the accomplishments of our fellow Jews is the perennial popularity of Adam Sandler's Chanukkah songs, listing famous people who are Jewish. We all take pride in scientists like Albert Einstein or political leaders like Joe Lieberman (we don't all agree with his politics or his religious views, but we were all proud to see him on a national ticket). And is there a Jew who doesn't know (or at least feel pride upon learning) that Sandy Koufax declined to pitch in a World Series game that fell on Yom Kippur?

You didn't have to post the entire article, I already read it. That is why I linked to it.

The paragraph you call "out of context" was simply a preview, not a statement that I intended to be out of context. That is why I posted the link to the entire article.

I do think the paragraph I posted is an important one. Not all "Jews" are practicing Judaism.

The question
Is Judaism a Religion? in the article --->is sort of a silly question.

The real question SHOULD BE:
Does "being Jewish" mean that you are practicing Judaism?

The answer is NO.

The other real question should be: If being Jewish is not a race, and all Jews are not practicing Judaism, then why is that person called a Jew?

Jews are people who are descended from the Tribe of Judah. There are 12 Tribes in all.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him.

Zionist propaganda has led the American people to believe that Zionism and Judaism are one and the same and that they are religious in nature. This is a blatant lie.

Judaism is a religion; but Zionism is a political movement started mainly by East European (Ashkenazi) Jews who for centuries have been the main force behind communism/socialism. The ultimate goal of the Zionists is one ONE-WORLD GOVERMENT UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE ZIONISTS AND THE ZIONIST-ORIENTED JEWISH INTERNATIONAL BANKERS.

Communism/socialism are merely tools to help them accomplish their goal.



The Life of an American Jew
in Racist Marxist Israel

Written in 1985 by Jack Bernstein

The late Jack Bernstein was an American Zionist who "returned" to Israel, to live and die in Israel building a Jewish nation. What makes him almost one of a kind, though, was his ability to see through the sham and hype to the oppressive, racist, parasitic character of Zionism as practiced in modern Israel.

http://www.biblebelievers.biz/israel.htm

The American people have been led to believe that Jews are "God's Chosen People". This myth was started by a small group of Jews. A few Jewish leaders took excerpts from the Bible and interpreted them as "Chosen People". But, isn't it odd that it is not the religious Jews who claim to be "God's Chosen People." It is the atheistic non-believing Jews who claim that honor.

Leading the cry, "We are God's Chosen People" are the Zionist/Marxist (Ashkenazi) Jews who for political purposes chose Judaism and who don't have a drop of biblical Jewish blood in them.

No, what you have said above is the lie.

Being chosen has biblical origins and is interpreted by Jews (those who follow Judaism or have Jewish roots) not as not being above
anyone else but rather as a responsibility to be good examples of
proper behavior that's all. I have posted the link to the
explanation of chosen-ness before but here it is again:

http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/jewsaschosenpeople.htm

The DNA evidence actually shows the opposite of what you claim.
European Jews as well as American Jews and Russian Jews and
South American Jews and in fact Jews seemingly unrelated all over
the world have been shown in the last 10 years or so to actually
have common Middle Easter ancestry. That's genetics. But what
brings them together is their belief in Judaism and their common
religious, social, and cultural history including their long
standing relationship to Israel.

You are just spreading bigotry with all the rubbish you post about
denying the ties of some Jewish people to their history and about
trying to spread lies about this ancient and kind religion and
people. Your sources from this comes from hate groups, Nazis and
their sympathizers, false anti-semitic texts and discredited nutball
conspiracy theories.




I just point it out so no one else falls for this jew bashing nonsense.

It is the truth.

But if you want to defend the Zionists start with all the massacres. You have your work cut out for you.

Which "massacres"?

Israeli Massacres.
Google every one of them.


The King David Massacre
The Massacre at Baldat al-Shaikh
YEHIDA MASSACRE
KHISAS MASSACRE
QAZAZA MASSACRE
The Semiramis Hotel Massacre
The Massacre at Dair Yasin
NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE
THE TANTURA MASSACRE
BEIT DARAS MASSACRE
THE DAHMASH MOSQUE MASSACRE
DAWAYMA MASSACRE
HOULA MASSACRE
SHARAFAT MASSACRE
Salha Massacre
The Massacre at Qibya
KAFR QASEM MASSACRE
Khan Yunis Massacre
The Massacre in Gaza City
AL-SAMMOU' MASSACRE
Aitharoun Massacre
Kawnin Massacre
Hanin Massacre
Bint Jbeil Massacre
Abbasieh Massacre
Adloun Massacre
Saida Massacre
Fakhani Massacre
Beirut Massacre

Sabra And Shatila Massacre
Jibsheet Massacre
Sohmor Massacre
Seer Al Garbiah
Maaraka Massacres
Zrariah Massacre
Homeen Al-Tahta Massacre
Jibaa Massacre
Yohmor Massacre
Tiri massacre
Al-Naher Al-Bared Massacre
Ain Al-Hillwee Massacre
OYON QARA MASSACRE
Siddiqine Massacre
AL-AQSA MOSQUE MASSACRE
THE IBRAHIMI MOSQUE MASSACRE
THE JABALIA MASSACRE
Aramta Massacre
ERETZ CHECKPOINT MASSACRE
Deir Al-Zahrani Massacre
Nabatiyeh (school bus) Massacre
Mnsuriah Massacre
The Sohmor Second Massacre
Nabatyaih Massacre
Qana Massacre
Trqumia Massacr
Janta Massacre
24 Of June 1999 Massacres
Western Bekaa villages Massacre:

**************************************************************

How about the attack on the Liberty?

http://www.ussliberty.org/why.htm

I didn't post it so much for you but because your excerpt gave a
false impression of the article. I posted it for convenience of
reference and to reveal your misrepresentations.

Does "being Jewish" mean that you are practicing Judaism? The
answer according to this article is almost all the time YES
although historically there have been also a number of people
who are identified with being Jewish due to their heritage
rather than merely their religion.

Read the whole article again. It doesn't appear that you have
grasped it yet. The article explains why some people who don't
practice the religion still share the cultural history of the
Jews and identify with being Jewish. But the defining characteristic
of being Jewish is still the religion. Those who identify with
being Jewish are identifying with those who believe in the
religion historically and their culture, customs and ethics and
historical ties to Israel also.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Here is the first paragraph of the article to refresh your memory:

Clearly, there is a religion called Judaism, a set of ideas about the world and the way we should live our lives that is called "Judaism." It is studied in Religious Studies courses and taught to Jewish children in Hebrew schools. See What do Jews Believe? for details. There is a lot of flexibility about certain aspects of those beliefs, and a lot of disagreement about specifics, but that flexibility is built into the organized system of belief that is Judaism.



You might want to also read "What do Jews believe?" from the same author
since you don't seem to have the slightest clue about that either.

Below is the link and main section from that article. The truth
about Judaism and Jews is really interesting. Note however that
nowhere does it say that Jews are above anyone else or that you have
to be Jewish or that it's a bloodline and converts are not as Jewish
as any other Jew or any of your other numerous howlers of
misrepresentations. In fact since there is constant discussion and
re-interpretation even of the basics in Judaism among all the
followers of the religion it is one of the most inclusive, tolerant
and flexible religions of the world. And does not believe in
proselytizing or imposing their beliefs on others.

Note also that what Jews believe is the Jewish religion.



http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm


=-=-=-=

also from the jewfaq by Tracey Rich

What do Jews Believe?

This is a far more difficult question than you might expect. Judaism has no dogma, no formal set of beliefs that one must hold to be a Jew. In Judaism, actions are far more important than beliefs, although there is certainly a place for belief within Judaism.

13 Principles of Faith

The closest that anyone has ever come to creating a widely-accepted list of Jewish beliefs is Rambam's thirteen principles of faith. These principles, which Rambam thought were the minimum requirements of Jewish belief, are:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

As you can see, these are very basic and general principles. Yet as basic as these principles are, the necessity of believing each one of these has been disputed at one time or another, and the liberal movements of Judaism dispute many of these principles.

Unlike many other religions, Judaism does not focus much on abstract cosmological concepts. Although Jews have certainly considered the nature of G-d, man, the universe, life and the afterlife at great length (see Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism), there is no mandated, official, definitive belief on these subjects, outside of the very general concepts discussed above. There is substantial room for personal opinion on all of these matters, because as I said before, Judaism is more concerned about actions than beliefs.

Judaism focuses on relationships: the relationship between G-d and mankind, between G-d and the Jewish people, between the Jewish people and the land of Israel, and between human beings. Our scriptures tell the story of the development of these relationships, from the time of creation, through the creation of the relationship between G-d and Abraham, to the creation of the relationship between G-d and the Jewish people, and forward. The scriptures also specify the mutual obligations created by these relationships, although various movements of Judaism disagree about the nature of these obligations. Some say they are absolute, unchanging laws from G-d (Orthodox); some say they are laws from G-d that change and evolve over time (Conservative); some say that they are guidelines that you can choose whether or not to follow (Reform, Reconstructionist). For more on these distinctions, see Movements of Judaism.

So, what are these actions that Judaism is so concerned about? According to Orthodox Judaism, these actions include 613 commandments given by G-d in the Torah as well as laws instituted by the rabbis and long-standing customs. These actions are discussed in depth on the page regarding Halakhah: Jewish Law and the pages following it.

Long list of dredged up anti-Israel war related Palestinian
propaganda deleted. And the Liberty debacle which was a mistake
and apologized for immediately and apology accepted by the US
Govt...

More conspiracy crazed Israel/Jew bashing nonsense. That's all you got.