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| Topic: Seperation of Church and State | |
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I hear many quote seperation of church and state.........but I ask you is it really seperated? Most of the laws of the Untied States remained based on religious ethical basis, and with in "God We Trust" on money produced by the United States.....how exactly are church and state really seperated?? The phase "separation of church and state" comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists (who feared religious persecution). It has never been an official policy. The states used to have official religions. |
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This is one of those things that come up from time to time, again and again. Like when somebody believes he has discovered something in the Constitution that says nobody really has to pay any taxes.
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This is one of those things that come up from time to time, again and again. Like when somebody believes he has discovered something in the Constitution that says nobody really has to pay any taxes. No but I am pretty sure somewhere it is said you are not supposed to tax the same money twice. Yet they do that. |
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Edited by
AdventureBegins
on
Tue 10/04/11 11:45 AM
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I hear many quote seperation of church and state.........but I ask you is it really seperated? Most of the laws of the Untied States remained based on religious ethical basis, and with in "God We Trust" on money produced by the United States.....how exactly are church and state really seperated?? seperation of church and state is a paraphrase of whats in the constitution and not ACTUALLY in the constitution it would more accurately be called seperation of RELIGION and state(although congress is federal and not state) the constitution states 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' to date, I know of no 'laws' on the books requiring or denying anyone their beliefs or non beliefs... although there are plenty of policies which restrict EXPRESSION of such beliefs,,, individual religious or non religious beliefs are fairly well protected in this country,, in my opinion,,, besides the restrictions on speech and expression which exist to keep beliefs 'in the closet' They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general. We wouldn't have any of our tax dollars being wasted on preventing people from marriage in of age and consent cases if religion didn't have it's ugly head all up in the mix. why? NOt one mention that I could see about the inffluence of religion in the laws put foward. Only a statement that the FEDERAL Government (through Congress) can not tell you which religion to be a part of, nor can it regulate the practice of religion. It says not a thing about a law maker submitting laws based upon that persons free intrepretation of his/her personl walk with god. It simply says government has no business in religion. |
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There should be no theocratic expansion nor should there be secular religion hating in government.
Both are extremely dangerous. As history so vividly shows us. |
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I hear many quote seperation of church and state.........but I ask you is it really seperated? Most of the laws of the Untied States remained based on religious ethical basis, and with in "God We Trust" on money produced by the United States.....how exactly are church and state really seperated?? seperation of church and state is a paraphrase of whats in the constitution and not ACTUALLY in the constitution it would more accurately be called seperation of RELIGION and state(although congress is federal and not state) the constitution states 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' to date, I know of no 'laws' on the books requiring or denying anyone their beliefs or non beliefs... although there are plenty of policies which restrict EXPRESSION of such beliefs,,, individual religious or non religious beliefs are fairly well protected in this country,, in my opinion,,, besides the restrictions on speech and expression which exist to keep beliefs 'in the closet' They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general. We wouldn't have any of our tax dollars being wasted on preventing people from marriage in of age and consent cases if religion didn't have it's ugly head all up in the mix. why? NOt one mention that I could see about the inffluence of religion in the laws put foward. Only a statement that the FEDERAL Government (through Congress) can not tell you which religion to be a part of, nor can it regulate the practice of religion. It says not a thing about a law maker submitting laws based upon that persons free intrepretation of his/her personl walk with god. It simply says government has no business in religion. I don't have to answer the why since you already answered it yourself. |
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This is what the 'why' was for.
"They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. |
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This is what the 'why' was for. "They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. thank you, I know we disagree on many things, but I often wonder why people just completely disregard the make no 'law' part,,,,to support all types of restrictions on religious expression,,, |
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Ok for example, the "in God we trust" on the dollar. Someone some where at some time decided to use that as an expression of his or her beliefs. If someone else decides to remove it then fine, but if there is a law stating that it can't be shown then that is a law restricting that persons expression of religion. I mean someone created the art for which the money was designed from. They should be allowed to express their religious views if they chose to. That is just one example. in the elk grove school district v newdow case the supreme court ruled that the word "god" on our money has been "lost through rote repetition any significant religious content" and therefore is not in violation of the establishment clause. |
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why? NOt one mention that I could see about the inffluence of religion in the laws put foward. Only a statement that the FEDERAL Government (through Congress) can not tell you which religion to be a part of, nor can it regulate the practice of religion. It says not a thing about a law maker submitting laws based upon that persons free intrepretation of his/her personl walk with god. It simply says government has no business in religion. yes, meaning congress, interpreted by several court decisions to mean all governments, cannot pass laws respecting an establishment of religion. the first amendment, in fact all of the constitution, applies to all federal, state and local governments. |
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This is what the 'why' was for. "They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. |
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This is what the 'why' was for. "They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. but that's not all of what it says. 'congress shall make no law RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION' and goes on to say 'or restricting the practice thereof.' no laws have been passed by congress restricting prayer in school nor has any law been passed restricting an individual's private practice of religion. the first amendment applies not only to congress but to all fedral, state and local governments. it is court precident with vast amounts of case history interpreting the establishment clause, not law, that restricts prayer in PUBLIC schools as these schools are government entities supported by tax dollars. no law says 'no prayer in PUBLIC school'. the constition says this in the first amendment. |
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thank you, I know we disagree on many things, but I often wonder why people just completely disregard the make no 'law' part,,,,to support all types of restrictions on religious expression,,, show me one LAW that supports restrictions on religious expression. keep in mind, the constitution is not a law but a declaration by 'we the people' of how laws shall be enacted and which laws are forbidden to be enacted. |
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thank you, I know we disagree on many things, but I often wonder why people just completely disregard the make no 'law' part,,,,to support all types of restrictions on religious expression,,, show me one LAW that supports restrictions on religious expression. keep in mind, the constitution is not a law but a declaration by 'we the people' of how laws shall be enacted and which laws are forbidden to be enacted. there are no such LAWS, that is my point the constitution , as it relates to religion, only addresses it in terms of LAWS yet judges constantly interpret it much more broadly to favor EXCLUSION of religion from many places, like schools, for instance |
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when an untruth or injustice is repeated enough it becomes truth and justice unfortunately as these thread has shown |
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Ok for example, the "in God we trust" on the dollar. Someone some where at some time decided to use that as an expression of his or her beliefs. If someone else decides to remove it then fine, but if there is a law stating that it can't be shown then that is a law restricting that persons expression of religion. I mean someone created the art for which the money was designed from. They should be allowed to express their religious views if they chose to. That is just one example. in the elk grove school district v newdow case the supreme court ruled that the word "god" on our money has been "lost through rote repetition any significant religious content" and therefore is not in violation of the establishment clause. I disagree. Whose god are they talking about and which god and what about the plural or more gods in one religion? I think they did not want to redesign the money and did not realize how very divisive just the word god can be. It will be addressed again in the future I am sure. |
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been studying for a test for a job....will get to reading all the posts this weekend and make input...please excuse my abscence for the time being....Thank you....sea
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This is what the 'why' was for. "They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. Oh I guess you still don't get it, okay.... There shall be no "respect" in the government for any religion. NONE. So in order for there not to be respect there can be no acknowledgement which our money violates and our courts violate and prayer in public schools violate and prayer in public places violates, etc... None of which restricts any practice of religion. It just can't be done in a government or public place. Which is good. We don't want religion thinking it is all encompassing anything they tend to not be able to control themselves ie abortion bombings, witch hunts, etc... |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 10/06/11 01:54 AM
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This is what the 'why' was for. "They need more laws to protect the laws from being influenced by religion in general." such laws would be in violation of the Constitution. "Congress shall make NO law..." Our legislative branch may NOT make laws restricting religion from ANYTHING... Let me give you an example of an unconstitutional action that has been accepted by the citizens of the United States without out much ado... Prayer is not allowed in school. CONGRESS MAY MAKE NO LAW... How then can such a RESTRICTION have been allowed to stand. As this is a part of the CONSTITITUTION, how can any STATE within the Republic remove such a right to practice religion without restriction... for that right is a right as a US citizen and therefore carries the weight of the Constitution. For which some of us have IN THIS DAY also pledged our sacred honor. Oh I guess you still don't get it, okay.... There shall be no "respect" in the government for any religion. NONE. So in order for there not to be respect there can be no acknowledgement which our money violates and our courts violate and prayer in public schools violate and prayer in public places violates, etc... None of which restricts any practice of religion. It just can't be done in a government or public place. Which is good. We don't want religion thinking it is all encompassing anything they tend to not be able to control themselves ie abortion bombings, witch hunts, etc... the constitution does not say there shall be no 'respect' for religion,,,wth it says congress shall pass no LAW respecting an establishment of religion (nor, by the way, PROHIBITING its exercise of freedom of speech) how can you allow people religious beliefs while not RESPECTING their right to them,,,,,,? the congress may not pass LAWS placing one belief over another or a non belief over another,, instead they are to STAY out of beliefs and respect the citizens rights(one of which is freedom of expression) 'Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.' |
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Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Amends ----------------------------------- |
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