Save a man from what?

There you go with your threats again.

I have nothing that I desire to be saved from.

I do not fear death nor am I concerned with being 'saved' from it.

I have no interest in any so-called 'gift' of eternal life.

As far as I can see the fine print that is required for the 'gift'
is far too high a price. I have no desire of paying such a high price
for that so-called 'gift'

Nor do I have any desires to cower down in obedience to some evil
male-chauvinistic God for the rest of eternity.

I would politely decline any such gift.

But according to you your so-called 'God' becomes extremely violent
and evil when people try to politely decline his so-called 'gift'.

I have nothing to be 'saved' from, other than the hideous religious
zealots on this planet who go around attempting to condemn everyone
in Jesus's name.

Saved from death. But you obviously do not wish to be saved from death and do not care for eternal life. There is no violence in this, it's quite simple....

Matthew 10:32-33

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

It's more like he flat doesn't believe a God like that truly exists, and he's not alone. The idea of a "loving" God acting in this way is absolutely ridiculous.

What would really be the point of learning and experiencing if we were automatically forced into a box anyway? You can't learn without going through things along the way.

Hearsay garbage.

By your own confession the words you posted are the words of Matthew, not Jesus.

Fiction. Pure Fiction.

No I don't.

Is that a problem for you?

Obviously you are the one who is petrified with a fear of death.

So it's no wonder that you worship this religion out of fear that you will die if you fail to cower down to it.

Or is it your lust for eternal life that drives your desperation?

Clearly that's what it's all about for you.

You fear death and the ancient Hebrew myths promise a way to be saved from death, so you suck it up in desperation that it's the only way to avoid death.

That's precisely what they were hoping you'd fall for.

And clearly you did.

You fell for it, hook line and sinker.

And evidently you have become so obsessed by it that you are attempting to get other people to believe it too. Probably in a subconscious effort to convince yourself that these myths really can work this magical feat that you so desperately desire.

Obviously that's what it's all about for you.

Fear of death.

Pure and simple.

It's not only fiction, but it's also a quite underhanded and devious attempt at brainwashing people into believing that if they refuse to accept what these authors are saying they will be condemned and rejected by God himself.

It's truly emotional terrorism is what it amounts to.

It's as devious and as underhanded as a religion can be.

Abracadabra

of course this makes no sense to you. because you believe in a

different god than our GOD. you believe in nature and magic right?

Not petrified of anything. But I do wish to continue having loving moments and great times with people I love and to enjoy life.

volant7

Are you saying that there is more than one God then?
How many Gods do you think their are?

So What sort of stuff do you believe in?

Noah's arc?
Virgin birth?
Water into wine?

That's not magic?

You don't believe in nature?

I guess so.

If you don't believe in the creator of the natural world and all the mystical magical things in it, then you must believe in a different God than I do.

In fact, I say this quite often. I worship the creator of this universe. Therefore I can't be wrong. I don't pretend to name it or proclaim what it is like. Much less tell other people that it will hate them if they refuse to accept my personal understanding of it.

It seems to me that only the Abrahamic religions are the ones that try to copyright God and take ownership of God and proclaim to everyone else who God will like and who God will hate.

Well, there may be other religions that have tried to do that too, like possibly Greek mythology (back when it was still viewed as an actual religion) I think they tried to proclaim who Zeus might like or not like too.

But no, I don't believe in those fictitious fables of jealous personified gods that have been created by men and used for spiritual terrorism.

I don't need any mortal man's permission to get along with God.

I get along with God quite well. God and I are best friends.

It's people like Cowboy who pass judgments on my relationship with God that I don't get along with very well.

Cowboy is a troublemaker. He goes around trying to convince people that God will hate them through Jesus as the Christ if they refuse to accept Cowboy's gloomy interpretations of Hebrew dogma.

I forgive him though because he knows not what he does.

I agree with Jesus on that point. It would be foolish to condemn people for doing wrongful things when they have no clue that what they are doing is indeed wrong.

I still find it frustrating and ignorant that Cowboy continues to do this. I'd think he should know better by now, but I allow for the possibility that he truly is ignorant of his wrongdoing.

It's a shame that he makes Jesus out to be such a Jerk.

For someone who claims to love Jesus he sure doesn't act like it.

Why tell lies? What will lying get you Abra?

I have never passed any judgement on anyone's relation with God. Have I ever told you specifically that you do now know God? I have never once said that, and if I'm mistaken please enlighten us all. I have also never once claimed that my interpretations of the verse(s) are the true pact absolute way of interpreting them. I'm encourage people if they have a different interpretation to tell me of it and we can discuss our we both came to our different interpretations and I might be shown something I didn't see or think of. And also I have never once said God will hate anyone, cause he won't and he doesn't ever hate anyone. God loves us all. Again, please enlighten us with something I have said that along the lines of God hating anyone.

I've already shown you verses where Jesus proclaims that he will not judge those who do not believe him.

You spit in the face of Jesus and use the Bible as a battering ram to scrap up all the hateful verses that you possibly can muster.

You do this in general with everyone, not just with me.

You are a very hateful person who apparently loves to use Jesus as an excuse to spread hatred toward other people.

That's my perception of your behavior.

Like I say, I forgive you because you are probably somehow totally ignorant of what you do. If you are actually doing it purposefully and knowingly then you truly are a despicable person. That's all I have to say.

And the reason there is no "judgement" for those is as such,

John 3:18

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

There would be no need to be judged on everything thing they did in their life, for their judgement has already been made. So why would there be a need for Jesus to judge these people? Their judgement is already said, already proclaimed, what else would their to be judged?

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This thread was supposed to be about free will and thinking for yourself.

It is about not letting some preacher or prophet lay down the law of how you should live your life.

This thread is not about arguing about airing your views about Christianity.

Please stay on topic.

Free will and thinking for yourself.

If someone tells you not to do something, you have the free will to listen to them or not. And in making the decision to listen or not you are thinking for yourself.

If God tells you not to steal something. When confronted with this situation, you can choose to either steal this object, or not to. You have the ability to make the choice, regardless of what someone or something has told you. At this instance you have the free will to do as you wish.

See, there you go again Cowboy,

Attempting to justify the condemnation of a person simply because they don't believe in Christianity.

This is all you ever do. You continually justify a God who condemns people for utterly PETTY REASONS.

Christianity is a train-wreck of a religion.

Judaism started out with Adam and Eve and was a story that was supposedly about morality willful disobedience.

But now Christianity has taken that religion and turned it into a religion where they justify this God to condemn anyone just for merely not believing in Christianity.

This is precisely the SCAM Cowboy.

They USED Jesus to build this SCAM.

Jesus himself, was probably a VICTIM of the whole thing.

Jesus was most likely a mortal man who taught against the immoralities of the Torah (which had already clearly gotten way out of hand as we well know). The Torah had people judging each other and stoning each other to death, and seeking revenges as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

In fact, they often took that literally and would actually cut the hands off of thieves and so forth. They were extremely brutal back then as the Crucifixion of Jesus clearly demonstrates.

Jesus taught against all those horrible immoral teaching and instead he tried to teach morals that were far more in line with the most popular forum of Buddhism at the time which was Mahayana Buddhism.

In Mahayana Buddhism the a Buddhist monk would become a Bodhisattva, and the very mission of a Bodhisattva was indeed to go around seeking disciples and teachings the masses how to obtain spiritual enlightenment and become "Born Again".

This is what Jesus did. He taught the same things that are taught in Mahayana Buddhism. He and God are One. We are all Gods. And Jesus taught us how to be BORN AGAIN into the spirit of God, which is the Buddhist Enlightenment.

Jesus rejected the immorality of the Torah.

Jesus was crucified for his views.

After he died there was much controversy over this man who taught nothing but LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and people were natually asking, "Who was this man who spoke with such authority" (Which is what we would be expect people to say about a Mahayana Buddhist Monk).

Rumors sprung up and the Scribes and Pharisees were having difficulty with this. Someone came up with the idea that Jesus might have been the messiah prophecised in the Old Testament.

The Scribes and Pharisees realized that they could use this to their advantage. And so they created the New Testament using Jesus as the son of Yahweh, and the final Sacrificial Lamb which everyone must accept in order to be cleansed of their sins and thus "SAVED".

And that was the birth of Christianity.

Even then the religious authorities had to actually ram their New Testament down the throats of the people via sword-point and threats of death to anyone who refuses to accept these rumors as the "HOLY SCRIPTURES".

All other rumors about Jesus were quickly SILENCED and destroyed. Yet even so, many of those rumors have even survived today and historians recognize that in the very early days of Christianity the greatest arguments over who Jesus was and what he was all about took place among the early "Christians" not all of whom were prepared to accept that Jesus was "The Christ".

You believe the New Testament version of these events.

I don't.

From my perspective they are themselves "ungodly" and do not even begin represent the type of behavior that I would expect from a genuinely all-wise loving intelligent God.

I don't believe that any God could be as sick and demented as the God depicted in the Torah (even Jesus himself clearly did not agree with the morality of those teachings).

And I don't believe in a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices. Or who would ask humans to condone a bloody crucifixion of an innocent man on their behalf to "pay" for their sins.

I see no wisdom in this, nor anything divine nor godly.

It a sick perverted notion, IMHO.

I see absolutely no reason to believe than any supposedly all-wise divine God would stoop that LOW.

So no, Cowboy, I don't believe that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of Yahweh.

No way.

I also take extreme offense when people suggest that I am 'refusing to obey God' just because I refuse to believe that our creator is as sick and demented as the Biblical stories demand.

That's absurd.

~~~~

And that is all you ever do Cowboy.

All you ever do is suggest that anyone who refuses to believe that God is as sick and perverted as the Bible demands, is refusing to 'obey God'.

No.

I'm refusing to believe that God is that sick and perverted Cowboy.

And that's all there is to it.

Don't quote things as I'm saying it when I didn't say it. I didn't say the statement of what I'm quoting now, why did you say "Cowboy wrote:" I did not say that.