Yes what a joke those careers are. Dentists and lawyers offer services too and also have no benefits and are also jokes. Brokers offer stock trading services and make $0 as we know. The list goes on and on.

They all feed in a sence from those of us who produce something and create wealth.

Oh how it is so easy to overlook a service provider. If a hunter goes out and kills an animal that winds up on your dinner table is he offering a service or is he producer? he didn't grow the animal. Now would gatherers of berries and other fodder likewise be foraging a service or producing? I can argue that I can hunt and forage for myself so if someone is doing the work and bringing me the food producing or offering me a service? Well, restaurants provide prepared food to you. They have to go get it and cook it and in some cases deliver it. I can say that Service AND Producer applies reflexively.

So now let us talk about Quality of service. There are Cooks and there are Chefs. Cooks cannot do what Chefs do. It takes significant training to be a chef. There is some science behind fine cuisine too. So if the service is better in theory it should be more valuable. An emperor would not have a Fry Cook providing his food!

If you want to talk about useless how about the whole Middleman Culture. I consider Banking a Middleman Operation! They put more value on themselves then they are really worth but they have positioned themselves on an artificial and arbitrary concept (MONEY MONEY MONEY!) and manipulate it to keep them in food and housing while the rest of us "Productive people" have to earn it the hard way. banking is the ultimate scam. Why are they worth million dollar bonuses while I have to scramble for every dollar?

It really is a lot more intricate than that. A fry cook is not worth a whole lot of money. A Cor Don Bleu Chef makes at least $50K a year minimum! Why? Skills and Training!

Just becasue some clown can swing a hammer and drive nails does not mean dick in the real world. Just about any monkey willing to get sweaty can do it. it takes more skill to be the guy coordinating the work than the guys actually doing the work. So how about the engineer that designs houses (Architects lay out the floor plan and appearance, engineers design the actual house!) It takes a LOT more training to be an engineer than an architect. But still it takes a lot of skill to be an architect. You can't legally build a house unless it has been approved by engineers and had been blue printed. that is part of the UBC (Uniform Building Code).

People complain Handymen are expensive. Well, how many people deal with what a handyman deals with? We have to have a variety of skills and be able to effectively repair houses. Just becasue you can hang a picture doesn't mean you can fix a door jamb that has been kicked in or replace a rotted drain in your bathroom sink. if you can't fix your sink and I can am I just providing a service? I still have to get the parts! So I have to be producing something!

So what do bankers provide? A service? Does it really serve you or them? they charge for handling YOUR money. They make money off of your money while they hold it. They make a nice easy living while we get jacked off and shaved!

So we squeeze down on businesses in general instead of squeezing bankers and the money trade.

Oh we just go after all the rich! Not the ones playing all the loopholes.

Real Smert.

(Yes I was being funny but please don't tell on me.)

Wait.. he thinks the people that run his Unions have joke jobs. That is a service. Gasp and so is the president. Man he thinks the president is a joke.

I've never said "Peace Always", ever. In fact, when GWB wanted to jump on Hussein again like Daddy did, I was making the argument "why are we kicking around in Iraq again instead of focusing on N Korea (who was actually openly threatening all its neighboring countries and was as well refusing security council inspectors)?" The only thing I've said is a kind of equivalent to "we shouldn't be jumping into schoolyard brawls and beating up the kids". We went to Iraq for oil and somehow GWB convinced everyone it was for "WMDs" and "links to Al-Qaeda".

Striking back? Fine, but we haven't been struck first? Yes, yes, Al-Qaeda on 9/11, but that wasn't Hussein, it wasn't the Pakistani people, it wasn't Iran ... honestly, there is more connection to Saudi Arabia than there is to Iraq, but did we beat on the royal family there? Nope, they were evacuated from the U.S. by Bush and Co. within 6 hours of 9/11.



Ask those same immigrants if they want to see their homeland nuked or at the very least, the towns where they grew up carpet bombed. I sincerely doubt it. There are several reasons to sentence someone to death, celebration of any event isn't one of them.

BTW, I've not made up anything about you, I'm contesting the views you've put forth in this thread. I once again offer up Waco as an example that you ignored the first time. Should it have been bombed because of David Koresh?



Its not for me to decide when or if I've proven you wrong, its yours. I can only argue the point, but you're hardwired into some sort of "only I and those who think exactly like me deserve to live" mentality. Besides, I already know that even if I do manage to open your eyes to the hatred you're spouting, YOU would never admit it. I'm still in this because ... well, I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm bored this early in the morning and this is my entertainment.



"Bully other nations into wars" and "let's throw nukes around". That'll get respect ... right. And "no redeeming qualities" ... anyone can say that about any other country and use any justification to do so. Have you lived there? Have you even been there? Do you know any North Koreans? I'm sure they, too, would be remiss to consider a nuclear solution.

Your argument seems to always boil down to the point that oppressed people should rebel. I agree. However, you seem to think this happens instantaneously the moment people realize they're oppressed (and if they don't, they deserve death ... just as those regimes promise them for non-compliance). It doesn't, especially when the oppressed are OUTGUNNED by those in power. Sometimes several generations pass before the people realize they can overpower through numbers or just get tired enough not to care about the consequences anymore. Egyptians finally did after 30 years of Mubarak's rule. It was also a MOSTLY peaceful revolution. No nukes, no outside help to get them started.

Oh, and the American revolution wasn't instantaneous either ... look it up.



I've nowhere stated that Congress was free and clear for the vote. Hell, I condemned them as they made it because I knew what the move against Iraq was really all about and I say they should have seen it too. However, you seem to be making the argument that, since Congress voted for it, GWB is free and clear and holds no responsibility for anything that's occurred. He's not.

He paved the way. That was my point. He begged everyone and their mother to let him go into Iraq like Daddy did, falsified data from the CIA to do it and then said "to hell with the UN" when they didn't agree and convinced Congress to let him do it anyway.



Its irrelevant because we're not arguing the nature of Pakistan's founding. We're arguing whether it deserves to be nuked. I (and every other nation in the UN) says "no". Sorry.



Resorting to the absurd ... how mature.



You're right, I've never read the Qur'an and no, I'll not be spewing "tolerance" on this level ... my previous statement should have been an indicator. I was raised Southern Baptist and I know more about Christianity and the Bible than the majority of Christians to whom I've ever spoken. As a book, fine, I'm not going to say "burn all bibles" ... as a religious doctrine, it is poison, just as any other religious text. As for the Qur'an, do you think the Bible carries no history of blood to rival its teachings? If so, then I'd be willing to put money on "you're wrong".

Also, you, like every religious fanatic I've encountered, are making an incorrect assumption that without religion, there is no morality. This is false. Read up on Progressive Social Evolution. Yes, there are a few good morals spread throughout the Bible and probably the Qur'an as well, but they're buried under a lot of hate and oppression and silly myths stolen from other cultures that too many people find believable and center their lives around.

Out of curiosity ... is it this upbringing and the idea that God was so wanton with destruction that makes YOU so sure in your judgment of other nations and the "necessity" of nuking them?

Its amuseing how you take everything literaly. perhapse in the future I will start off a statement with a " as a rule of thumb, or in general or something like more or less, that way people wont get confused and side tracked from the issue at hand.

What rule of thumb? We just gave a ton of examples that totally crush your idea. Most educated jobs are service oriented. Scientists, Researchers, Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Psychologists, Dentists, People with Business Degrees, Engineers, Physical Therapists, Nurses, Radiologists, etc etc etc. The list goes on and on.

You know why all these professions don't need a union? Because their abilities are actually desired and people are willing to pay for it. Not just anyone can do that job much less finish the degree. Some people just don't have the skill set. Like I could have never made it in an art program because I just have not talent for it though if I could I might have gone into computer animation.

Every person who speaks out against the powerful and the corrupt puts there lives on the line for the country we grew up reading about, the country that has been taken over by fascist political thugs.

areyou talking a long ton or a short ton? British or american ton? a short ton is 2000 lbs

let's take a look at how the issue at hand became sidetracked. you began the issue, 'thank you for not serving' as an aside to the 4th of july. at some point it was you who brought your praise for unions into the mix and continued with you being a dinasaur and now have sidetracked further down the line of how wonderful it makes you feel to be working in manufacturing and actually creating something while others work in joke jobs. you said these absurdities, nobody else said them and now you moan about the rest of us taking things literaly and sidetracking the thread. if this thread is sidetracked you're the one done gone and done it.

Oh I have got to answer the above response but at this moment I don't have the time. I'll get to it later for sure though!

Oh this is going to be GOOD!

I hope its something interesting as a rule of thumb and generaly speaking most posters here in the political threads I think gather their information from "Larry the Cable Guy's Only in America"

That character seems like someone that would work a union job.

haa haa haa

I would say maybe wallmart security

Dude you set it up I had to take that shot you know.

I wasn't for Iraq 1 or 2 becasue I seen both actions for what they were. We should have been done in Iraq the first pass but I said from the start then we would leave it as unfinished business.

Now you talk about focusing on N Korea, HOW EXACTLY? COMMIT TROOPS AND RESOURCES TO FAKE WE WILL TAKE THEM ON? No, we need top bust N Korea's azz the next time they shoot their mouths off. They rattle the saber, we launch a cruise missile on their palace. they start an artillery barrage on Seoul we nuke the artillery fields and then their military bases. China sends their army in we nuke them too. China attempts to sink a carrier group, we use SMIII to shoot the missile down and then we nuke them too! The UN pisses blood. We tell them to put up or shut up and we get to the business of mopping up what is left and let Korea enjoy some peace for a change and China gets a big mouth full of "SHUT THE HELL UP!"

That is how to conclude this. Show the world we GOT the balls to deal with a nuclear threat. Think Iran will be so ready to shoot their mouths off if they see us level N Korea's military and put China in their place? Like i said before, Russia is not stupid enough to risk getting nuked over China getting their fingers burned screwing with us. the only people I would feel sorry for is the Civilians caught in the middle of their ruling body's BS.

The time for talk is over. We need to cut their aid off completely. Like Pakistan they deserve nothing!

My oh my! I would have thought I would have had some whitty answer to my argument by now!

I don't sit on my computer all day. Sorry.



Read: Hate, hate, hate. Your answer to everything is kill a $#!t ton of civilians so YOU and others LIKE you can be satisfied. You "feel sorry" for civilians caught in the middle, but you have no qualms slaughtering them in the hundred thousands or millions ...



You STILL didn't answer the question. Would you nuke a US city because of a small contingent of troublemakers hiding among the population?



I'm convinced you have no idea what racism is. As far as your political affiliations, you're constantly making remarks against "liberals", so the only thing I'm assuming is that you're not. However, you do little more than spew anti-Democrat rhetoric like a Republican, though, and mimic their "I'm more important than everyone else" attitude with perfect clarity. Kudos.



And not a word of this is an actual response to anything I said. Just the same "bomb them!" repetition.



Actually, I'm curious on that mark, as well. We'll never know, but I have the feeling Iraq was going to happen with or without Congressional approval.



So long as we're "returning territory", lets go nuts and give Israel back to the Palestinians. We can recreate Yugoslavia as well. Poland goes back to Germany, etc. and we "Americans" can go back to Europe, Asia and Africa and give the entirety of the U.S. back to the Native American tribes that are left.

That'll solve everything, right?



You've been talking absurd all along.



Again, read: Hate, hate, hate. "Bomb them all so I and others like me feel warm and fuzzy." You do nothing but consistently back your own hatred for anyone who disagrees with your world view with "nuke".

I've lost interest. Like every fundamentalist (and most hardcore political party affiliates), every argument I have and will make you will respond with "you show your ignorance!" Presentation doesn't matter, because unless I say "we need to nuke everyone who hates America", it will not be a presentation you'll agree with. A closed mind cannot breathe.

I'll leave discussion with the only fact I know you can agree with: you are not the only person on the planet.

Tisk tisk tisk. This is your answer? This is always what you will fall back on instead of countering with non violent solutions that would stand a chance of working. OH NO LADDYBUCK! You act smart but instead you are not that smart at all! Here you had an opportunity to offer solutions that we may or may not have heard of at all to dealing with the situation. Sadly you have no ideas or answers. All you do is come here and say "You are hateful and all you do is hate." If anyone is wasting time here it is me. Likewise I have a job too. I just get odd days off. Sorry if that offends you but work is tight these days.

Now back to the issue at hand. At least I have ideas to get these Brinksmanship games to end. All you want to to is TALK TALK TALK and talk is doing nothing. Also there is a huge difference in using nukes on Military assets vs. Just Nuking any ol' city just becasue. But in a war if you are going to nuke a huge concentration of troops and they happen to think massing them up in the middle of a population center will prevent us from taking them out, well, any leader with balls would say damn the enemy and let them have it rather than risk letting them fan out making it harder to get them all in one big blast! We don't make a point of having Military bases among population centers. Also Naval Harbors tend to be isolated anyways as well.

So what do you do to a bully who is in your face all the time? Take is like a girly boy or arm up, man up, and nut up! Sorry but the White Fleet worked! Can you look that up or do I have to do that for you too? Likewise our handouts are breaking us, all the aid we pay for is breaking us, all the military actions the UN has us on are breaking us, the fight for oil is breaking us, Liberal politics are breaking us, N Korea is still at war with us! China is playing games with us, and our assets are not focused on the right targets.

So come on, what is your great idea? More aid, more hand outs? More trying to BUY friends? And now you dare to bring up giving Israel back to Palestine? BLAME ENGLAND FOR THAT ONE MY FRIEND! But then again they were chased out by Islamics murdering them wholesale in a genocide close to the Holocaust I bet you think didn't happen. Israel has a right to be where "Palestine" is and Palestine is lucky the Jews actually are willing to put up with them! OH and about Poland, Poland annexed Cilesia and a couple of other Territory from Germany in Reparation for the invasion. GET YOUR HISTORY STRAIGHT!!!

I hate people who would be a threat to me. I hate two faced liars. I hate ignorant populations that would kill educators and praise clerics and god over living a good life. I hate people who hate me!!! So what I hate? Like I said we all hate something. I don't hate people cause their skin color is different or they have tattoos or listen to rap music. I don't hate people becasue they are really religious. I hate IDIOTS! And Idiots come in all color and flavor of mankind.

And no I do not value Human life above any other kind of life. I think there are way too many of us anyways and we can thin things down by getting rid of some of the human trash we have to put up with. We as a species are a HORRID Steward of this planet. As a species we are violent and self serving by nature. Unfortunately weeding out the waste of society leads to what happened in Germany becasue **** like that ALWAYS goes out of control!

The frightening thing to me is I can see the world going the rout of Soilent Green! Look that movie up if you have not seen it.

And I hope Libya does get a few good shots off on the EU! They got it coming!

BTW, Cruise Missiles don't always carry nukes!