That is the first I've heard of you doing any charity work but I'm confused as to why you feel that Abra was attacking you or your charity work or cause. I don't think he knew anything about you doing charity work either.



Who has Abra picked on who is known for or is doing charity work? Or are you saying that because you do charity work, that no one should pick on you?

If so, How exactly did Abra's post pick on you? I'm really confused.

I have read Abra's post several times and to me all he is saying is that a person should speak out against the things they think are wrong or hurting other people.

Last week I called the police because my neighbor's dog was injured and dragging its legs around the yard and I felt so sorry for him. I did not want to approach them myself so I sent the police to investigate.

Neglect and cruelty to animals is one thing I will not ignore or tolerate. Maybe I should have talked to them myself but I was afraid I would say the wrong thing and make an enemy out of my neighbor. Turns out they did take him to the vet and they don't have the money for his care, so if he does not get better on his own, they plan to have him put down. Its very sad.

If I see animal neglect or cruelty, I will speak out about it. I may not be very polite. I think that is all Abra was trying to say. He feels religion is harmful and he speaks his mind about it. It is his cause.


P.S.
We all do our own charity work.
All six of my cats are charity work. People dump them in my yard because they won't spay and neuter their own cats and they end up with kittens.

"After a mg, if you saw someone emotionally traumatizing little children in real life, would you simply tip your hat to them and politely wish them light and love? And then merrily skip away to enjoy your day whilst they continue to emotionally and psychically harm those children?"

Do you have a problem with the way I love or treat the kids I visit sir?

As we should but he needs to put a shoe in that mouth!

And Jean, I know he is your friend and you wish to be there for him.

But! telling me that my hellos are disingenuous and comparing it to me blowing off kids who I spend a good 3rd of my spare time with.

come on!

"After a mg, if you saw someone emotionally traumatizing little children in real life, would you simply tip your hat to them and politely wish them light and love? And then merrily skip away to enjoy your day whilst they continue to emotionally and psychically harm those children?"

ABRA, Do you spend time with these kids? I do mister. If you wish to roll up your sleeves and go with me then make a comment to me afterward that's fine, but making a loose statement like this is not cool.

And then on top of this you have the nerve to tell me that is has something to do with what you believe or disbelieve? Not even close. I have excepted your views the moment you shared them. I still except them now.

I just think you need to take a look at when you dig to try to get a reaction from people. This has nothing to do with religion dude this has to do your picking fights for the sake of picking them.

That is not what he was doing. I don't think he knows anything about the kids you spend your time with.

MG, He was giving an example.

Should you(would you) be polite and wish love and blessings to a person who is beating a dog or a child, - or should you step in and actually do or say something about it?

You should not take that as a personal remark about you. It was a hypothetical question.

If you want to get to know a person for who they are and what they believe in or stand for, you don't merely exchange polite (and often insincere) pleasantries. You make some sort of attempt to understand what they mean and why they say the things they say.

I try not to take offense at people, even if they really are attacking me personally.

Jean, I love you and know what you are saying but the man takes swipes. Not just at me but many others and it's not cool. No one should have to be in a position to have to not take it personal. It's not that big of an adjustment for people to make. but some are just around to stir it up and it keeps people from getting a chance to know someone else and their views.

BTW a good friend of mine does a rescue mission in Ohio. You would not believe how many animals she has now. Most of the dogs here that I go to the park with are rescues. I can't believe people just get up and leave them or worse yet the beatings. It's awful.

anyway got to run

"Should you(would you) be polite and wish love and blessings to a person who is beating a dog or a child, - or should you step in and actually do or say something about it?"

That's what I'm doing here with him. I'm stepping in and saying quit hurting people with loose words.

It doesn't matter if it is a physical beating or and attack of words, it's not cool and I have had many people tell me so. People don't even come up on these threads because of the fear of having to deal with this.

Ranting is sometimes good for the soul.

Let there be ranting.

Just know that it is always a personal problem.
Never take it personal.


(My credo.)

MG, he was not attacking you personally, he was making a point about why people have to stand up to beliefs and actions that are harming others, such as religious ones are known to do in one form or another. It had nothing to do with charity work or anything, he was just using an example to make his point. Nothing more.

Deal with what?

Questioning religious doctrines?

That's what this forum is for. If people aren't prepared to question religion, they shouldn't be coming on this forum in the first place.

There already exists a forum dedicated specifically to Christianity. If people want to go to a forum where Christianity is supported and not questioned it's not like they can't do that.

Here's the link:

http://mingle2.com/forum/forum/188

I saw exactely what he did. I said a hello and he turned it into

"After a mg, if you saw someone emotionally traumatizing little children in real life, would you simply tip your hat to them and politely wish them light and love? And then merrily skip away to enjoy your day whilst they continue to emotionally and psychically harm those children?"

I happen to greet "emotionally traumatizing little children in real life" almost every day and you had better believe that they get a light and love from me. And to say that I merrily skip away to enjoy my day whilst they continue to emotionally and psychically harm those children is a pretty bold attack. I don't care if it was at me or anyone else.

If you people want to except this type of behavior that speaks for you.

General Religion Chat
Discuss religious issues with members of all religions

What religion are you?

What does it mean to serve god?

The answer to my question, in almost every case, invariably includes one’s duty to obey god and god’s laws.

I ask then, what altruism exists in charity if one is but obeying god’s law?



Here’s to the light that shines in the eyes of the benefactors of a charitable deed.

Here’s to the motivating force behind the deed.

May both, benefactor and doer, learn what altruism motivates those who wish to serve,

and may both, at some point, know the gratitude of receiving as well as the humility of serving.

It wasn't an attack! He was using that example to make a point, read between the lines. It was not meant to insuinate anything against you personally, you just choose to take it that way.

I don't put God in a box anymore.

I was born and raised into Christianity. Therefore Christianity will always be a part of who I am. No one can ever take that away from me. It's my history.

And since I was strongly affected by that religion throughout my entire life I feel compelled to give my "testimonial" concerning the religion. And my "testimonial" is very much in line with Isaac Newton's experience and conclusions.

After having been awakened to the reality that the Abrahamic picture of God is untenable I moved on to view other spiritual ideas and religions.

Not "seeking God", from my perceptive I knew "God" intimately ever since early childhood. When I realized that the Biblical picture of God was false, I simply acknowledged that it was that picture of God that was false. It never phased my actual belief in God.

It just woke me up to the fact that religion does not equate to God.

I moved on to look at the Eastern Mystical picture of God. That picture is deeply abstract and difficult to grasp intellectually. I found a wonderfully entertaining author named Alan Watts that opened my eyes to many things.

Eastern Mysticism is extremely difficult to grasp for many reasons. One reason is because there are many different views in that religoin as well. It's really not much different from all the other mythologies of God in that respect. It too, is a man-made philosophy and filled with the opinions and views of many different people.

I finally took a step back from religion altogether. I still believed in "God" (or spirituality), but I simply no longer saw any need at all for religion. So for quite some time I didn't even bother with religion much at all. I just didn't see any need for it.

About the only time I gave it much thought was when people would try to convince me of Christianity. And then I would offer them my reasons for having rejected that picture, and state that even though I wasn't totally convinced of the Eastern Mystical picture I felt that it actually made far more sense.

People would start asking me a lot of questions about the Eastern Mystical picture. I soon realized that I too, would finally like to take another look at it in more depth. Being older and more mature perhaps I could get a whole new vantage point. And I did.

I even took a college course on Buddhism. I must confess that I was both shocked and "enlightened" to the many different forms of Buddhism. It's as silly to say that a person believes in Buddhism as it is to say that a person believes in the Abrahamic religion.

The very next question should be, "Which Abrahamic religion?", or "Which Buddhism". There are many different views of Buddhism and they differ as wildly as Christianity differs from Islam. There are also many different versions of Buddhism just like there are many different denominations of Christianity.

During those studies is when I realized that Jesus fits the description of Mahayana Buddhism to a "T". Especially the concept of a Bodhisattva which was deeply entrenched in Mahayana Buddhism. And far more surprisingly is that Mahayana Buddhism was at it's peak right around the time when Jesus was said to have lived. That is just far too big of a coincidence for me to ignore. I'm now completely convinced that some guy named Jesus was strongly influenced by Mahayana Buddhism and became a Bodhisattva and taught against the immoral teachings of the Torah.

I realize that many Christians find that suggestion to be highly offensive, because they find any suggestion that Jesus might not have been God to be highly offensive. But it's a conclusion that I personally feel makes far more sense than anything else.

Again, not meaning to offend, but the very idea that an all-wise all-intelligent creators would be involved in a plot to have his only begotten son crucified to pay for the sins of man does not equate to wisdom nor intelligence, IMHO.

So the idea that Jesus was a mortal man who simply tried to teach better moral values than had been taught in the Torah makes far more sense to me. And it's also clear to me that Jesus did not support the immoral teachings of the Torah.

So for me that's a done deal. I will never go back to believing in the Christian picture again. That's not even possible for me not. I have far better explanations for how those stories came to be what they are today.

To go back to Christianity and a belief in a God who is associated with blood sacrifices to pay for sins, simply isn't rational.

Today, one of the most popular forms of Buddhism is Zen Buddhism. However, that form of Buddhism really almost amounts to nothing more than glorified atheism. I suppose that depends on how an individual views it. But that's what Zen Buddhism seems to have evolved into. Zen Buddhism is about as far removed from the original Buddhism as any Buddhism can be.

A form of Buddhism that I personally find intuitively attractive is Tantra Buddhism. This is a form of Buddhism that is closely related to the Tibetan Buddhism of the Dalia lama. It's also closely related to the style of Eastern Mysticism that is taught by Deepak Chopra. I've watched almost all of his video and I enjoy his presentations very much.

I don't take anything from Buddhism as being concrete or the final word. In fact, that's a big no-no in Buddhism anyway. Buddhism teaches that you should seek your own truths. They just offer philosophy and ideas to help you in your own search for truth.

I'm not even sure if it should be called a "religion". Perhaps a better description would be to call it a "spiritual philosophy".

It's not a dogma. It's an "enlightenment".

Although I had studied Buddhism and practices many of the things that it teaches such as yoga exercises, meditations, etc. I never really felt like I was following a 'religion'. Possibly because I never really did any of those things "religiously". I wasn't striving to experience some "great enlightenment" or anything like that. I just used the techniques when I felt like it.

I supposed that I had previously separated religion from "God" so long ago that I even though I was enjoying many of the techniques of Buddhism I really didn't connect them to "God" specifically. I was just experience various spiritual states of consciousness.

~~~~

Sorry if I'm rambling. But if I just answered your question by stating that I'm currently a "Wiccan" that wouldn't have any meaning to you. Thus I feel a need to elaborate.

~~~~~

A few years ago, I was about to "give up" on "religion" altogether. Not to suggest that I would quit mediating and things like that, but rather I just never found a "religion" that I could truly connect with my intuitive experience of "God".

But then a witch (at least she was a witch at that time) introduced me to some books on witchcraft written by Christopher Penczak. She seemed to be taking witchcraft seriously as a valid religion. As did some other Wiccans on the forums. In fact, I even knew some Wiccans personally who took witchcraft seriously.

Having been a Christian, I had been brought up to believe that "Witchcraft" was total fiction and had no more reality than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Witches were just cartoon characters that we dress up like on Halloween to get free candy.

Well, once I started reading Penczak's books I began to realize that this is indeed a quite serious spirituality that holds every bit as much merit as all these other religions that I've been exposed to up to this point.

In fact, having been exposed to, and educated in, the many different forms of Buddhism I realized that these traditions of Witchcraft actually most likely have their roots in Eastern Mysticism and in Buddhism and Taoism specifically. Especially the Tantra Buddhism which is also closely related to Taoism.

The "Wiccan" view, (I'll call it "Wiccan" but that label has a very misleading history), actually goes far back into history and I personally believe that it had it's rawest origins in central China.

As it migrated to Europe it evolved and various concepts changed form, although the underlying concepts remained somewhat consistent on the deepest most philosophical levels.

And of course, when it clashed with the Abrahamic religions it also became highly contaminated with various Jewish and Christian concepts and views. So it's a clash of many different spiritual views.

What attracted me to it the most?

Intuition.

By this point I had realized from the teachings of Buddhism and Deepak Chopra's interpretations of Eastern Mysticism, that spirituality is a CALLING. You can't force it. It either calls to you or it doesn't. And if it calls then you should follow if it feels like the right thing to do.

Well, these views of Wicca were clearly calling to me and it felt absolutely perfect to follow the call. So I did. I've followed it and it has become a very deep part of my life now.

It's right for me. I have no question about this.

I suppose I could say that it has become my current "religion".

Although, it would probably be wrong to simply say that I'm merely a "Wiccan" because that label itself is ill-defined. That's a modern term that I'm using to describe a very ancient tradition. So don't be fooled by the term. There is no single word that can be used to describe my religion. And I certainly don't follow the verbatim dogma of Gerald Gardner who coined the term "Wiccan" when he presented "Witchcraft" to the United States Government for their approval to have it officially recognized as a valid religion.

~~~~

In short, there is really no way that I can describe my religion to you in a way that you could say, "Ah ha, I understand".

No, if you think you understand I'm sure you don't.

My religion is quite complex and it took me several years to develop it to its current state. It's also in a state of constant growing, just like me. My religion is as dynamic as I am.

Do I "make it up" as I go along? Well, yes, I do. That's an integral part of what it is. It's a psychic connection with the cosmos and therefore it's dynamic. It's not static. It's not dogma that someone else wrote. It's a psychic connection with the cosmos.

That's really the only way I know how to put it into words.

~~~~~

Do I care whether anyone else "believes" in my "religion"?

No, not really. Some people do understand it, and I'm thankful to be able to share my experiences with them. But other than that I have no need for anyone else to condone or believe in my religion.

But I would appreciate it if they would simply recognize that it's right for me and quit accusing me of "rejecting God" if I don't go back to believing the the Hebrew picture of God.

I'm never going back to the Hebrew picture of God.

That's never going to happen.

As far as I'm concerned, the rumors about a man named "Jesus" were most likely sparked by some Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva.

I don't believe the outrageous claims of those rumors. And that's my position on that.

If you like that story, then more power to you. But don't beat me over the head with it. Don't accuse me of rejecting God just because I don't believe the claims that Jesus was the son of Yahweh.

The Jews themselves didn't buy into those claims.

And neither did many prominent and obviously intelligent scientists.

Albert Einstein rejected even Judaism.

Here's what he had to say:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty." - Albert Einstein

"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism." - Albert Einstein

"A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive." - Albert Einstein

~~~~~

very poor taste

It's the truth, it was not meant personal. Learn to read between the lines of a statement and maybe you'll see that.

You still don't get it do you. I said hello. That's it hello. Wake up. Someone says hello and you don't make a big deal out of it.

What a waste of time you guys can be.

I think it is very poor taste for someone to offer to spread "love" around in Jesus' name and then refuse to acknowledge the merit of other people's spiritual beliefs.

When you're prepared to respect my spiritual beliefs, let me know.

When you're ready to quit using Jesus as a weapon and start to actually show LOVE to everyone, including the atheists, let me know.

Until then, don't talk to me about "poor taste".

The Christian forum is right around the corner if you don't like it here.