I believe man is perfectly created with imperfection

I also believe imperfect man can make good and bad choices without it making then a 'good' or 'bad' person

which would also be backed up by the notion that we will all at some points make BAD choices and would therefore ALL have to be 'bad',,something else I Was never taught or interpreted from the Bible

its more my 'core' than

The very foundational charge of the Bible is that mankind's so-called "fall from grace" is what brought death, disease, and imperfections into the world like thorns growing on plants.



which I was NEVER taught at church, never interpreted from the Bible, and only heard since coming to this thread,,,

That is so entirely different! In that case, the person did not cause the flood in the first place, but in the case of the Bible God, this death is something it concocted for punishment. Quite sadistic if you ask me.

IMHO, the whole story is absurd to begin with.

Here we have a creator whose entire creation has turned against him and has decided to reject his will and desire.

As far as I can see this story doesn't say much about such a creator.

The creator CREATED this mess in the first place!

If the creator is so inept that all it can do is create large masses of people who totally reject it and would rather drown than to do the "will of God" then this doesn't say much for the abilities of this "creator" in the first place.

Why is this God creating such ignorant people?

This implies that the God himself has totally no control over anything.

It would be like a parent who raised nothing but criminals and none of his children would even remotely consider doing their father's will.

Well gee whiz, just how many children would this parent need to have before the parenting and mentoring SKILLS of the parent himself came into question?

Think of it in human terms.

If we have children and they are totally unruly and impossible to deal with, is that OUR FAULT.

Of course not. Because we as mere mortal have NO CONTROL over that.

But for a God to be placed in that very same position would require that the God is just as helpless as humans in this regard.

Also, if we were truly DECENT parents who tried our very BEST to raise our children with good morals and all our children were completely ignorant and rebellious toward us and became criminals, we would surely SUSPECT that they were all mentally ill, or whatever.


I mean, seriously. This idea that all of these people were perfectly mentally HEALTHY and actually chose to reject their creator, makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL.

The only other explanation would be that Satan had WON them all over, but if that were the case then we'd just have a story where Satan BEATS God at the bet of who can win the alliance of more souls, and it just becomes a game where God LOSES to Satan and the poor humans are nothing more than pawns in this devious game between the gods.

This religion is just OBSESSED with the concept of "sin" and trying to make out like everyone is a "sinner".

It's totally focused on the NEGATIVE!

Just curious, is this a new philosophy your trying out, because I don't recall you using this before.

In case you're just trying it out to see how it works - let me remind you of all the phenominally good people who have made wide and sweeping positive change in their communities, only to be struck down by some horrible deadly disease.

OR, if you want reality, take a few keyboard strokes and see what life is like for the Sundanese or the Palistinains. Specifically look at the lives of the children; not even teenagers yet, pulled out of their beds in the middle of the night only to see their parents beaten, shot and sometimes killed, just to take this child to be questioned and abused because someone said the child threw a stone at an Isreali.

Tell me more about how those people have, and continue, to reap what they sow in this life.



And all you have to do is live through it. But why are you here and others must experience this existance in ways you cannot even fathom?

The fact that you see this as FAIR and that our perceptions of God are the only thing that changes tells us alot about you.

SORRY, I'm trying to avoid the use of YOU when it sounds accusing. The fact is that most of us cannot fathom the hell that others have to go through. I read it every day and it tortures me. I cannot understand how anyone can believe that we "reap what we so" in this life "in accordance with the bible".

Pan I'm confused, did you intend your remark (see bolded line) for Kleisto or for Msharmony?

It seems it could apply to both.

WARNING

An empath, that's interesting. This would make for an interesting discussion. I have quite a few qustions, but for the moment can I ask just one?? and then I won't interrupt the thead with this further.

Do you think of this talent as a spiritual, genetic, or a developed attribute? Or maybe some of each?

it is a misinterpretation that EVERYTHING That happens is a result of what we have done directly

that is not what I refer to by reaping what we sow

or I would have said we reap ONLY What we sow, which I did not

its not a new idea, not at all, I will give several examples

if I give a dollar to someone to ride the bus
my REWARD is the feeling of gratification, hopefully, received in that gesture,, that is where good being its own 'reward' comes in

If I on the other hand, snatch three bucks from a senior waiting on the bus, I lose out on my chance to GROW in that moment,,,

on a larger scale

the person who shared a dollar may find later in life that someone steps up when they need and the person who stole may find something they value taken from them

we look for our gratification to be INSTANT and physical, but that is not how I believe we 'reap', it is only one way in which we can reap


we think because people SUFFER(physically) what is not their 'causing' that it is 'unfair' but it is , to me, a function of us being connected and not truly 'strictly' affecting only our own results

if one person makes the error of dropping a match in the woods, it may result in the 'unfair' death of 'innocent' bystandards

certainly the bystanders didnt PERSONALLY sow that situation, but because we are connected, they were caused to share in what harvested from it,,,