uh, ahem, yes claims of higher education can be humorous. it's not the IOUE but the IUOE and it represents not the college educated engineers with degrees in their discipline that anybody with any education can see that chazster was referring to, ie., aeronautic, structural, electrical, etc. the IUOE represents heavy equipment operators. you know, great big monster tractors and cranes and stuff requiring not even a hs dimploma.

Actually some engineering societies are fighting so that people that don't have degrees in engineering can't call their profession engineering. Such as operations engineers.

hell chaz, i never got past high school and i understood what you meant. lol.

When I was n college I had an internship with a power distribution company. Their workers that installed power lines were called line engineers but had to be changed to linemen as they didn't have degrees.

My point was that most people with 4 year + degrees don't have union jobs yet they went to school for that long and paid for it so it must be worth having.

I know of several smaller "Medium sized" businesses here that as soon as the Teamsters got voted in the businesses closed doors and left. Unions got WAY too much power over the years and it is time to do them in and dumb them down.

I do agree they did serve a useful purpose and some still do like the Sprinkler and Pipe Fitters Union which holds contractors and workers to a performance and training standard. But unions like the Teamsters are a blight to most business. They are not out for the interest of the business, they just try to squeeze more money out of businesses.

In a free marker society they are counter intuitive.

When a union can insure qualified and trained personnel who perform that is good. Making demands constantly is not. I am amazed that people who work a job with no skills, no degree, no training, and in some cases POOR JOB PERFORMANCE want as much money as a person who had to pay for an education and has been working for years or even more comically to me is that they compare themselves to people who work jobs requiring HIGH amounts of skill and training. Doctors do not do plumbing and plumbers don't work as doctors BUT both are skilled jobs and both have similar hazards. But a ditch digger? Come on. Warehouse labor? Seriously?

Likewise medical and dental are not the responsibility of any employer. That is a personal responsibility. This is another area unions have over extended their powers.

And on top of that so many people want to be management. Middlemen do nothing but get in the middle of things! And that is what Union leadership has digressed to!

blaaaahhhh

Simple fact the rich are getting richer all the data supports this and the middle class are getting poorer.

A person can be an appologist for the rich or make a stand for a little more economic equality.

Busting the unions down has done nothing to improve the economy, nor has the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy or the rise in income of the rich.


America is becomeing a two class society and most of you will eventualy end up on the bottom half.

SO tie me to a post and block my ears
I can see widows and orphans through my tears
I know my call despite my faults
And despite my growing fears

But I will hold on hope
And I won't let you choke
On the noose around your neck


[ These are The Cave Lyrics on http://www.lyricsmania.com/ ]

I think the rich getting richer idea is kind of funny. I mean if someone is making more than they spend then I would assume their wealth would grow. So you would only be stating the obvious.

Uhh, I think the point is that only the rich are getting richer, while the not-rich have been getting poorer for 30 years. Unlike the period from 1945 to 1980, when beverybody got richer.

I am sure lots of middle classers got richer. My parents did. My grandparents did. My uncle, my cousin. Hell my cousin never went to college and has over 1 million dollars. Mark Zuckerberg was not rich and now he is. Lots of people got richer.

Lots and lots of people got poorer the vast majority in fact. The survival of the american middle-class will be led by the labor movement, it wont be by millionares or millionaire wanabes. I am just wondering when it will pill up so high that we will have revolts as in Greece.

WHen it explodes it wont be pretty.

can you show with FACTS that the majority of people got poorer?

So we just let Unions strangle business and industry until there is no more here becasue Unions made everything too damn expensive to operate?

Maybe if someone would do something about the trade deficit with China the pain Unions cause business will not be so bad when we can be competitive again. Until Unions do something to make us competitive with the rest of the world I will only buy them being nothing more than labor watch dogs gone rabid with greed.

Blah blah blah, I know this is what some readers are hearing in their heads. Unions got everyone thinking Dental and Medical are required of employers. PLEASE!

So where am I supposed to be seeing the real world here vs. the world of idealism?

The only reason it will explode is because of attitudes like yours.

"It isn't fair they have so much compared to me. I want my fair share and they won't let me have it!"

Question: do you spend more than you make? Does your debt continue to increase every month? If you say no, your statement about the middle class getting poorer does not pertain to you. The only way you get poorer is to spend more than you make.

Why is it such a crime in this country to be successful. The way you talk about millionaires, you make it sound evil. I am guessing you would turn down an opportunity that could make you a millionaire. Because if you didn't, you would become one of "Them!"

That sounds exactly like a very excellent assessment of the argument here.

Libs thrive on this Us vs. Them thinking. I love how many Victocrats there are out there. Rush Limbaugh may be a wind bag BUT he summed that thinking up nicely too. Take away from those who earn to give to those who mooch!

Oh well, this ain't no perfect world now is it? Think this country would be in the frackas it was in if only land owners had voting rights? I know we would not have all this self appointed social spending at the expense of American taxpayers.

The big lie about capitalism is that anyone can be a millionaire imagine if we were all millionares? who would do the work necessary to keep society functioning? How would people be forced to do distastefull but necessary jobs? The vast majority of us are poor and will allways be poor, all one can ask for is that an honest days work keeps you out of poverty.

I am sorry but the majority of people are not poor.

There is no comparison to you and the extremely wealthy. Its as if your on another planet, private jets, private schools, personal chefs, accountants, yahts etc etc. You have no idea how rich some people are, ya know the top 1% and then the rest of us.

Kind of a misleading question. Obviously, it is not a crime to become wealthy. The political elite are working hard to ensure that the wealthy get even wealthier through any means they desire.

I think selfish wealthy people are evil. They want to reap the benefits of their enterprises' successes, but they don't want their employees to share in the benefits, because that would mean more for them and less for themselves. From truman to Reagan, the wealthy simply weren't allowed to behave so selfishly. Now it is Conservative dogma to encourage this ethos.

What does that have to do with being poor?

And poor folks actualy defend this greedy wealth. They stay silent when granny has her social security cut or medicaid and scream like banshess when the rich are asked to pay a little more. It sickens me how dumb so many americans are.