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| Topic: Religion as a form of Social control | |
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'a lot' is a subjective standard
there is 'a lot' to back up what was written in the bible as well, but some will consider it just a 'guess' and others will consider it 'knowledge' while others will take it as 'fact' |
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Generally it is the thick and uneducated that believe in religion. But often well educated and intelligent people do so as well. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this, but fitting in to their social surroundings might be the main one. To believe in a religion your brain has to be taught to omit some very damning evidence against it. Some go even further and study this evidence enough to find some way of explaining why this damning evidence is not damning at all, and the thick and uneducated are suckered in with these arguments and learn even further not to question what their beliefs are. The intelligent 'believers' keep the momentum going and the less intelligent ones believing. This could be why religion is taking so long to die out. I think and hope it eventually does. Science and physics can pretty much rule out most known organised religions, but it cannot rule out the possibility of a 'god' or creator. To me it is simple, if there is a god, he isnt asking us to behave or worship in any particular way. Science is nothing but a huge guess with some facts. Guesses would be the theories. Heck the creation of life on Earth is nothing more then a "theory" of evolution. A theory is nothing more then an educated guess. I mean, yes there are some facts. Not downing the entire science society and or knowledge. Just a lot of it on a theory. I have to give it to ya, you have stamina a giveaway was the lead in suggesting that thick and uneducated are who generally believe in a religion ,,,,lol I try to live and learn ,and what Im learning in this thread, is just as there will always be some christians who insist those who dont BELIEVE as they do will go to Hell there are some non believers(as in those who dont believe in christian doctrines on any level) who will continue to insist that only a lack of intelligence, or MAINLY a lack of intelligence anyhow, must be the condition of any or most believers,,, neither side has any problem seeing how pompous the other position is, but each seems blinded to pull the mote out of their OWN eye(to use a biblical reference,,,lol) Its nothing to do with lack of intelligence. It has to do with the conscious use of the will and the ability to ascertain truth through reasoning. Its not even lack of education. |
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'a lot' is a subjective standard there is 'a lot' to back up what was written in the bible as well, but some will consider it just a 'guess' and others will consider it 'knowledge' while others will take it as 'fact' There is nothing to back up the actual stories themselves within the time and place. Only a few real characters, locations, possible events etc. I have a friend who writes historical romance stories. Everything is always historically factual in her stories. The stories themselves are pure fiction. |
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Generally it is the thick and uneducated that believe in religion. But often well educated and intelligent people do so as well. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this, but fitting in to their social surroundings might be the main one. To believe in a religion your brain has to be taught to omit some very damning evidence against it. Some go even further and study this evidence enough to find some way of explaining why this damning evidence is not damning at all, and the thick and uneducated are suckered in with these arguments and learn even further not to question what their beliefs are. The intelligent 'believers' keep the momentum going and the less intelligent ones believing. This could be why religion is taking so long to die out. I think and hope it eventually does. Science and physics can pretty much rule out most known organised religions, but it cannot rule out the possibility of a 'god' or creator. To me it is simple, if there is a god, he isnt asking us to behave or worship in any particular way. Science is nothing but a huge guess with some facts. Guesses would be the theories. Heck the creation of life on Earth is nothing more then a "theory" of evolution. A theory is nothing more then an educated guess. I mean, yes there are some facts. Not downing the entire science society and or knowledge. Just a lot of it on a theory. Cowboy: The emphasis is on EDUCATED guess. Are you educated? Do you know anything about the theory of evolution? I doubt that you do. (I don't) But the point is... there is a lot of evidence and facts to back it up. Not true with .... religion. The bible is not all the knowledge we possess of Jesus and or things in common to. There is a huge amount of knowledge outside of the bible in some cathedral. Don't remember the exact name of the place or where exactly it is. But nevertheless it exists. The bible is merely a collection of "history" and or "scriptures" needed to achieve salvation and the history to keep things in contextual knowledge. Could not contain all the knowledge we possess inside of one book. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 06/01/11 01:12 PM
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 06/01/11 01:13 PM
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Generally it is the thick and uneducated that believe in religion. But often well educated and intelligent people do so as well. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this, but fitting in to their social surroundings might be the main one. To believe in a religion your brain has to be taught to omit some very damning evidence against it. Some go even further and study this evidence enough to find some way of explaining why this damning evidence is not damning at all, and the thick and uneducated are suckered in with these arguments and learn even further not to question what their beliefs are. The intelligent 'believers' keep the momentum going and the less intelligent ones believing. This could be why religion is taking so long to die out. I think and hope it eventually does. Science and physics can pretty much rule out most known organised religions, but it cannot rule out the possibility of a 'god' or creator. To me it is simple, if there is a god, he isnt asking us to behave or worship in any particular way. Science is nothing but a huge guess with some facts. Guesses would be the theories. Heck the creation of life on Earth is nothing more then a "theory" of evolution. A theory is nothing more then an educated guess. I mean, yes there are some facts. Not downing the entire science society and or knowledge. Just a lot of it on a theory. Cowboy: The emphasis is on EDUCATED guess. Are you educated? Do you know anything about the theory of evolution? I doubt that you do. (I don't) But the point is... there is a lot of evidence and facts to back it up. Not true with .... religion. The bible is not all the knowledge we possess of Jesus and or things in common to. There is a huge amount of knowledge outside of the bible in some cathedral. Don't remember the exact name of the place or where exactly it is. But nevertheless it exists. The bible is merely a collection of "history" and or "scriptures" needed to achieve salvation and the history to keep things in contextual knowledge. Could not contain all the knowledge we possess inside of one book. You don't know what you are talking about. Unless that 'cathedral' was created DURING the time of Christ, it is just an off-shoot of the writings of the Bible, which were written 300 years after the alleged death of Jesus. |
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Generally it is the thick and uneducated that believe in religion. But often well educated and intelligent people do so as well. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this, but fitting in to their social surroundings might be the main one. To believe in a religion your brain has to be taught to omit some very damning evidence against it. Some go even further and study this evidence enough to find some way of explaining why this damning evidence is not damning at all, and the thick and uneducated are suckered in with these arguments and learn even further not to question what their beliefs are. The intelligent 'believers' keep the momentum going and the less intelligent ones believing. This could be why religion is taking so long to die out. I think and hope it eventually does. Science and physics can pretty much rule out most known organised religions, but it cannot rule out the possibility of a 'god' or creator. To me it is simple, if there is a god, he isnt asking us to behave or worship in any particular way. Science is nothing but a huge guess with some facts. Guesses would be the theories. Heck the creation of life on Earth is nothing more then a "theory" of evolution. A theory is nothing more then an educated guess. I mean, yes there are some facts. Not downing the entire science society and or knowledge. Just a lot of it on a theory. How is religion not any different? You take a lot of what you believe on faith do you not? How is not a guess of it's own to say God is this and in here, etc? |
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'a lot' is a subjective standard there is 'a lot' to back up what was written in the bible as well, but some will consider it just a 'guess' and others will consider it 'knowledge' while others will take it as 'fact' There is nothing to back up the actual stories themselves within the time and place. Only a few real characters, locations, possible events etc. I have a friend who writes historical romance stories. Everything is always historically factual in her stories. The stories themselves are pure fiction. I imagine , when you refer to 'backing' up time and place, you would be looking at archeological finds which are limited and not the only thing, for me, that makes something believable or true there are things that were written about in a previous time that may or may not have been common knowledge or 'lucky' guessing things as little as the stars being uncountable and each unique from the next, there are a list of such revelations that there would not have been a 'science' available to confirm during that time ..but it goes back to personal perception of what makes something valid or logical, I guess |
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? thats a matter for the majority to decide if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 06/01/11 01:26 PM
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if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, If a school is for learning strictly as you say, where does public prayer fit in with that? It doesn't. I am not saying that they have no right to pray. If they want to do that on their own, fine be my guest, I have no problem with that. But if you are gonna force it onto the entire student body whether they want it or not, then yeah I have a problem. This is not the same thing at all as what you speak of. |
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? thats a matter for the majority to decide if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, If a school is for learning strictly as you say, where does public prayer fit in with that? It doesn't. This is a little different, because the prayer is pushed onto EVERYONE, it's not the same thing as giving them the right to pray. I have no problem with that, but if you are gonna force it onto the entire student body, then yeah I have a problem. I agree. I think its a foreign concept to many people. But true neutrality involves neither MANDATING something nor BANNING it. I dont think people should be forced or restriced from praying, except on private property where the owner should have their say(provided there is no public funding involved) |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 06/01/11 01:29 PM
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? thats a matter for the majority to decide if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, If a school is for learning strictly as you say, where does public prayer fit in with that? It doesn't. This is a little different, because the prayer is pushed onto EVERYONE, it's not the same thing as giving them the right to pray. I have no problem with that, but if you are gonna force it onto the entire student body, then yeah I have a problem. I agree. I think its a foreign concept to many people. But true neutrality involves neither MANDATING something nor BANNING it. I dont think people should be forced or restriced from praying, except on private property where the owner should have their say(provided there is no public funding involved) Right, but the idea of a public schoolwide (or even classwide) prayer, is that everyone is lumped into it whether they believe or not. That's what I take issue with. If you wanna have something like that, it should be optional. That is to say, those who wish to attend such a thing can, and those who don't can choose not to. That's the way it ought to be. |
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? thats a matter for the majority to decide if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, If a school is for learning strictly as you say, where does public prayer fit in with that? It doesn't. This is a little different, because the prayer is pushed onto EVERYONE, it's not the same thing as giving them the right to pray. I have no problem with that, but if you are gonna force it onto the entire student body, then yeah I have a problem. I agree. I think its a foreign concept to many people. But true neutrality involves neither MANDATING something nor BANNING it. I dont think people should be forced or restriced from praying, except on private property where the owner should have their say(provided there is no public funding involved) Right, but the idea of a public schoolwide (or even classwide) prayer, is that everyone is lumped into it whether they believe or not. That's what I take issue with. If you wanna have something like that, it should be optional. That is to say, those who wish to attend such a thing can, and those who don't can choose not to. That's the way it ought to be. I agree. I would love a compromise of a moment or two of 'silence' for the students to sit without speaking. Whether they do it with head bowed, looking into space or staring at their crush,, should be up to them,, for those moments. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 06/01/11 01:40 PM
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I agree. I would love a compromise of a moment or two of 'silence' for the students to sit without speaking. Whether they do it with head bowed, looking into space or staring at their crush,, should be up to them,, for those moments. SILENCE!  |
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The "majority rule' allowed slavery but that doesn't make it moral or right. Msharmony, how would you feel if Lucifer/Satan was the God this country worshiped openly? What if the majority rule passed a law that public prayer to Lucifer was allowed? "In the name of the all mighty Lucifer the Light bearer, our liberator, we pray..." How would you like to have to constantly be subjected to that? How would you feel about separation of Church and state THEN???? the majority rule also eliminated slavery, which is to say it has little to do with 'right' or 'wrong' which are subjective standards at best,,,but more to do with the standards of 'right' or 'wrong' that each community agrees upon for THEIR environment I would feel no differently than I do now about freedom of speech, if people prayed to Lucifer openly, Id feel its their perogative truly a prayer is one of the LEAST offensive things to me, regardless of who it is to I am offended by disrespectful vulgarity, and I am finding more and more that people are indeed using their FREE speech to be more and more disrespectfully vulgar, its a compromise I have to deal with for my FREEDOM to likewise speak as I choose I don't believe you. You would let your children attend a school that regularly prays to Lucifer? You would keep silent and let the society dictate to your children what they must listen to and who they are expected to pray to? I'm sorry, I don't believe that. If you would do that, then I would consider you a weak person who does not stand up for her God. I know most serious Christians would object. The fake Christians would probably convert to Lucifer. a school has never been a community of 'free speech', its a place to learn no, I would not let my children attend a school that prays to Lucifer, if that were the 'norm', I would send my child to a 'christian' school,,,,king of like what I plan to do anyway but I would want that CHOICE, just like I want the choice to teach at home or have my child taught in the mainstream I have the choice, as should others to send their child through the mainstream(whatever the majority has decided that to be) or teach at home, or send someplace private that is more in line with their standards so long as those CHOICES exist, and public school is not the ONLY option, I would let the community decide through civil activity and voting to make their PUBLIC institution what they wanted it to be,,, because the best part of what this country is exists because we are encouraged to bring about change through civil activity and voting, and I wouldnt want it differently That is why they don't allow public Prayer in school. Now if all Christians could just get that into their heads and stop screaming that we have taken "GOD" out of schools ! but prayer was once in schools, so they did take PRAYER out God cant be taken out of a person unless they allow or want him to be but there are troubling trends in how much 'aknowledgement' different communities allow to be given to God,,,which I think is more of the concern than taking 'God' out,,, Perhaps it shouldn't have been there to start with. Shouldn't all this be a personal thing more than a public? If one wants to worship or give thanks to God on their own or with a group of like minded people, then fine. But why should everyone else be subjected to it beyond that? thats a matter for the majority to decide if we take away the right of people in public to do anything that others dont want to be 'subjected' to , we would find that very 'restricted' society that you mentioned earlier you did not want,,,, If a school is for learning strictly as you say, where does public prayer fit in with that? It doesn't. This is a little different, because the prayer is pushed onto EVERYONE, it's not the same thing as giving them the right to pray. I have no problem with that, but if you are gonna force it onto the entire student body, then yeah I have a problem. I agree. I think its a foreign concept to many people. But true neutrality involves neither MANDATING something nor BANNING it. I dont think people should be forced or restriced from praying, except on private property where the owner should have their say(provided there is no public funding involved) Right, but the idea of a public schoolwide (or even classwide) prayer, is that everyone is lumped into it whether they believe or not. That's what I take issue with. If you wanna have something like that, it should be optional. That is to say, those who wish to attend such a thing can, and those who don't can choose not to. That's the way it ought to be. I agree. I would love a compromise of a moment or two of 'silence' for the students to sit without speaking. Whether they do it with head bowed, looking into space or staring at their crush,, should be up to them,, for those moments. I was thinking more along the lines of a designated place and time either before or after school to have something like that, and those that wanted to attend could, those that didn't didn't have to. |
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I was thinking more along the lines of a designated place and time either before or after school to have something like that, and those that wanted to attend could, those that didn't didn't have to. Right. When a congregation gathers together and instead of saying a prayer, they opt for a "moment of silence" everyone knows what's going on. Everyone is thinking, yeh right, we can't pray out loud so we have to have a moment of awkward silence. But if they announced that they were gathering for a moment of silence would anyone come? I doubt it. Even religious people would think that is a waste of their time. Personally I would not mind a public prayer in school as long as it was to God and not to a specific God like Lucifer, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, etc. But an atheist has every right to object to that. |
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I was thinking more along the lines of a designated place and time either before or after school to have something like that, and those that wanted to attend could, those that didn't didn't have to. Right. When a congregation gathers together and instead of saying a prayer, they opt for a "moment of silence" everyone knows what's going on. Everyone is thinking, yeh right, we can't pray out loud so we have to have a moment of awkward silence. But if they announced that they were gathering for a moment of silence would anyone come? I doubt it. Even religious people would think that is a waste of their time. Personally I would not mind a public prayer in school as long as it was to God and not to a specific God like Lucifer, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, etc. But an atheist has every right to object to that. Hence why it'd be best to just have that separate from the school day, and those that wanted to be a part could of their own volition. Wouldn't even mind if it was Christian, so long as the option to take part or not take part would be there. |
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I was thinking more along the lines of a designated place and time either before or after school to have something like that, and those that wanted to attend could, those that didn't didn't have to. Right. When a congregation gathers together and instead of saying a prayer, they opt for a "moment of silence" everyone knows what's going on. Everyone is thinking, yeh right, we can't pray out loud so we have to have a moment of awkward silence. But if they announced that they were gathering for a moment of silence would anyone come? I doubt it. Even religious people would think that is a waste of their time. Personally I would not mind a public prayer in school as long as it was to God and not to a specific God like Lucifer, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, etc. But an atheist has every right to object to that. thats another assumption, which I dont think children make when I was told in school that we had to be quiet , thats all I took it as I think in modern schools, if a student chose to bow their head during those times, there might be an issue,, and I dont think THAT is just,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 06/01/11 02:25 PM
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I was thinking more along the lines of a designated place and time either before or after school to have something like that, and those that wanted to attend could, those that didn't didn't have to. Right. When a congregation gathers together and instead of saying a prayer, they opt for a "moment of silence" everyone knows what's going on. Everyone is thinking, yeh right, we can't pray out loud so we have to have a moment of awkward silence. But if they announced that they were gathering for a moment of silence would anyone come? I doubt it. Even religious people would think that is a waste of their time. Personally I would not mind a public prayer in school as long as it was to God and not to a specific God like Lucifer, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, etc. But an atheist has every right to object to that. thats another assumption, which I dont think children make when I was told in school that we had to be quiet , thats all I took it as I think in modern schools, if a student chose to bow their head during those times, there might be an issue,, and I dont think THAT is just,,, OH BULL CRAP. There might be an "issue" if a student chose to bow their head? Are you serious???? You Still don't know what the issue is about if you think that. It is about SAYING OUT LOUD to a captive audience of mixed religious people "In Jesus name we pray..." or even praying to God in front of a captive audience of atheists. Its not about what a person does on his own. Please tell me you understand this or I am going to start thinking it has something to do with 'intelligence." p.s. --and if it is an issue with anyone, then that person is just plain ignorant. |
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Alridy.. Done with my exam.
Science vs. Religion Science: Normally starts off as a theory to how something functions. This can be also paired with mathematical formulas and equations that shows that a theory is possible. The little thing with science is.. for it be considered factual... they like to do a little thing like proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. The only way this can happen is that they have of proof which are quantitative, observable, especially Repeatable! Theories are just logical concepts which are not yet prove; unlike with the Religious Ideology, there are many within the science fields who work hard to prove those theories which many many times have lead to the improvement of future generations. I do believe that there are many theories out there, but your misconception that factual knowledge is not the basis of the field of science is completely misguided. Take a good look around you sometime, everything that is in your house and even those in your bodies, are derived from the field of science. People generally overlook, and disregard the work and science that had taken place in order for the development of their belongings. Example: Your Door! Mathematical measurements are required for the obvious reasons; choice of materials depends on "studies" of what the most profitable and readily available resources in the production area. oo yea... EVOLUTION! as technological improvements come about, it may be profitable to implement it into the production of the door. Which requires "studies" location, humidity levels, crime rates, paint choices, chemicals for the paint, the bonding process... etc... requires studies to be made; this requires ideas, theories of course.. what's after a theory? hum? that's right... it has to be PROVEN and Repeated! ... moving on.. Religious Beliefs: Bla... science... who needs it right? Steps taken: Old Fart from thousands of years ago comes up with an Ideas or story.. or in many cases, steals it from someone else. Next Step: Passed along mouth to mouth for a long time before finding someone who can take advantage of it by writing it down. Next Step: Translated a Crap load of times and as such.. the word Night becomes Door or whatever. Last Step: Bam! You got yourself an official "FACT" and is accredited by the Church of Whatever Think I like the second one better.. short, sweet, and to the fact! even though there's no way in hell it can be proven or duplicated.. still a FACT though.. because THEY said soo.. Alridy.. lets go kill some non-believers.. If they can die then the Almighty GOD has granted us divine rights to take their sorry lives and send them to hell. If they live then they are Zombies.. and no one likes zombies |
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