i was raised presbyterian and recall saying i believed in god when i was young. now as an agnostic i don't feel that i've lost my faith and belief in god so much as i think that never actually believed. i was indoctrinated into thinking i was a believer. my folks told me about god and jesus, took me to church where everybody believed in god and congress even inserted the word "god" into the pledge just at the time i was learning the damn thing the other way in kindergarden. lol. so you could say that my early life was filled with god.

but i'm not certain at all that i was ever a believer in god any more than i was ever a believer in santa clause or the easter bunny. all three i took on testimony from others.

What happened in the above mentioned instances is this:

the ones who SAY they were christian had only head knowlwdge....NOT heart knowledge yet..

and therefore only had religion...not relationship yet with God.(one Now has relationship and NO LONGER just religion, when one becomes truly born again.

Hope this helps.

Wow what a story! Yes I am glad he survived and what a huge baby you have! lol

When he is done growing he might reach 6 feet 7 or something! I would ask him if he enjoys basketball. They pay ridiculous wages for the NBA that only a 1 year wage could help him open up a business in no time.

I am just saying....lol

Yes it is true everyone has different ways of finding a peaceful bliss for themselves.

Joseph Campbell a famous mythologist and storyteller coined the phrase "Follow your Bliss" and I think that is important that we can today in this time and age choose what works best for us. I hope this will never be taken away from us in the future.

There is nothing wrong if a pantheistic way is the way you choose to live. If it works best for you then that is all that counts. Afterall, you are the one that has to be happy with it not anyone else.

Hmmm

Well as a child, I hated to hurt anything or anyone. I would not argue, I always did what I was told and tried my best to do whatever I could.
As a child I knew about God and believed he was there, I can remeber at 8 trying to explaing to my brother why he was real, and my brother telling me that he was just like fairy's and wasnt even there. (Well I believed in fairies as well, so that was a pretty bad day) My brothers faith never changed and neither did mine.

But my brother is one of the best men I know, he is a faithful father and husband, he is a great worker, honest trustworthy and just a great bloke, but he has no faith. Actually he does have faith just inhis family not God.


As an adult I am the same, I still will not hurt anyone or anything, I still do what i am told, without I think it is wrong and I still do my best.



But I think for me it is like I just dont ever walk alone, I guess for me it is like my parents where to me as a child. When things went wrong, I just did everything I could to fix things and if I couldnt Mum and dad took care of it.
I guess I see God the same, If I can do something I do it, if I cant do it, I believe its in his hands and I dont think about it again..

I honestly dont know where I would be, I think that because of lifes experiences I would basically be the same, but I just cannot imagine not having faith, its just a part of me that is there.

For those that say they get their strength from within and are not in need of a higher identity or even morale support of a loved one...where do you think that comes from?

I ask for many mammals in our world get sick if they can't get morale support from a elder or another mammal of somesort. They get so sick that death occurs. This usually happens to younger mammals but there are cases of older animals also getting sick without affection, love, or communication. Are we any different?

I know we claim to be of a higher intelligence as humans but do you think when it comes to being alone with no morale support whatsoever that the within is enough to live off? Will a human not go insane, grow weak, or uncertain after such a long time.

I say this for many religious prophets such as Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha have endured long periods of time alone and suddenly come back with new wisdom to share with others and change ways one can think. Some come with astonishing stories that today some cannot believe can happen realistically.

Can being alone for so long provide illusions or miracles?

Sorry if the questions sound weird, but you have to admit it does open some dialogue right? lol

Very true Ms. Harmony. There surely are so many idealogies out there that support and not support having a faith. This leads to another set of questions that will be twofold.

For those that carry faith:

Can a person that doesn't have faith still be grateful and show humility in their life even if they don't have guidance in the matter?

For those that do not carry faith:

What causes someone with faith to not show humility as of being grateful even though it is preached to them often throughout their lifetimes?

He's a footy player..(aussie rugby league) and Mixed Martial Arts...he's built like a tree...not all light and bouncy but a formidable wall... ...he is planning on being a pyrotechnic when he finishes school...and is doing a summer work experience thing with the guys who do Sydney Harbour's new year's Eve fireworks...our summer is your winter..





I have never had someone to blame....someone to use as a scapegoat...for my life....it's mine...and mine alone to get right or wrong..

it's how I see the different godheads...as an invisible scapegoat, bully, boss, father...whatever....I don't need an invisible friend, or tyrant....there are plenty of real live in your face people for that.

So yeah I understand what you are going through. You were introduced to god at a very young age and lived with it and even witnessed historical events such as having god in the pledge. That must have been interesting to witness. Today you are not sure what to believe. It could be true or not and therefore you just believe within as a resolution. I think it is a valid point and what is most important is it works for you. Can I say safely that it works for you that you seek strength within and not from a higher identity?

Ummm....I am humbled by what I am privileged to witness....the amazing young people who call me mum...the amazing land that surrounds me....this planet that sustains us...

This amazing house, I can call home...a job...a place to grow food, clean air, clean water...safety for my children and myself..

I am incredibly blessed...invaluably honoured with this life..

Humility is internal...it HAS to be felt...otherwise it is so much rote.

For those that say they get their strength from within and are not in need of a higher identity or even morale support of a loved one...where do you think that comes from?

I ask for many mammals in our world get sick if they can't get morale support from a elder or another mammal of somesort. They get so sick that death occurs. This usually happens to younger mammals but there are cases of older animals also getting sick without affection, love, or communication. Are we any different?

I know we claim to be of a higher intelligence as humans but do you think when it comes to being alone with no morale support whatsoever that the within is enough to live off? Will a human not go insane, grow weak, or uncertain after such a long time.

I say this for many religious prophets such as Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha have endured long periods of time alone and suddenly come back with new wisdom to share with others and change ways one can think. Some come with astonishing stories that today some cannot believe can happen realistically.

Can being alone for so long provide illusions or miracles?

Sorry if the questions sound weird, but you have to admit it does open some dialogue right? lol

kinda/sorta. not sure that i seek inner strength so much as it just is what it is. i lift weights to build physical strenth but if i do something to develope my "inner muscles" i'm not concious of it.

you've got me wrong when you say "today you are not sure what to believe." that's not quite me nor does it meet my definition of what agnostic thinking. i consider someone who is not sure what to believe to be a "weak atheist." one who does not necessarily believe there is no god but is not convinced god does exist. an agnostic like me simply thinks that such things cannot ever be known so we give it no thought.

I will trade you some of the humidity I suffer here in Florida for some of that fresh air in Australia! ha ha

Just joking around.

Yes we should find humility and to be grateful. I think in general we do though, yet I see a great many people take things for granted all so often. When I returned back home I realized that many people truly suffer for things that are not so important in life. I wonder at times how to convey to them that it isn't so important afterall....but then I just leave it and watch how certain individuals truly complain for stupid things such as why they don't have the latest technology or food done properly to their taste. Anyway I am probably just talking to much for my own good! Lol

I understand. You grew up with the faith system you were taught and feel it is a normal way of life. You instinctley wouldn't hurt anyone regardless if you were introduced to Christianity or not.

You know the Buddhist believe that one shouldn't hurt anything in life that lives. Not even a mosquito! So in this perspective Buddhist would be proud of you when you mention you couldn't or wouldn't hurt anyone or thing. They believe this to be true because the bug or animal could have been your previous mother or elder at one time ressurrected again as such in this lifetime. Yes for many this is ridiculous but for them it is true.

Anyway yes I think I understand what you are saying.

I suspect when you empty out the 'white noise' of our lives...when the silence is so loud, your blood pumping through your body sounds like hydraulics....clarity arrives.


I spent a week out on a coral cay some years ago...7 days alone, just me and the critters that own the island..no speech...no other human..

and in that time....a whole other space expanded...all the day to day clutter in my head was gone....I got to be two eyes...a silent witness...to what was around me...and also what was within me.

it was only a week....


I look forward to, in a couple of years when the youngest children are independent adults....doing something similar for a year or two.

I have spent much of my childhood silent....my young adult hood silent...and alone...

whether there will be any great epiphanies is another thing...

I don't require others to survive...although as humans we are instinctually herding animals...you only have to look at how many of us cram into small spaces...cities..

No not really, my parents didnt believe in God, we didnt go to church and we didnt talk about God, I am not sure why I believed in him, I just always have, but then again I believed in fairies and elves and all those things, and I would have defended them all, Asking for proof that noone could give me to show that they didnt exist.

I could grab a book and disapear for ages, sometimes I would take a tent and stay out with my brother, we lived in the bush so there was nothing to fear there, I could escape with my books into my own dream world for days if I wanted, my life did not involve worry or need as a child.
My brother and I would head out for days on our bikes and come back if we wanted something, but we had pretty much everything we needed to survive on our bikes, from the time we where little we where free to go.

HAHAHAHA!...Humidity???


Holy guacamole!


where are you Josie?....

Josie lives in a constant 32 degrees celcius humidity 180% in the extreme tropics close to the equator in Darwin,...maybe a slight exaggeration!...and I live in the sub tropics of Queensland!...we've just had the WORST floods ever in European settlement memory...in the height of our summer...you want humidity?...










I suspect there is a shift happening within the lower socio-economic groups in the US...a humbling...amazing things happened to your countrymen during the Great depression...all of the frivolous complaints disappeared....and a new or revived heart...resilience re-emerged..

I suspect it will experience a renaissance again.

Now I understand completely. Yes maybe it is better not to give it thought as much as some do on a daily bases. I think everyone is different. We have to take in account of demographics, culture, upbringings, and a myriad of other things in account also. Do you agree? I mean everyone is different for sure and come to different conclusions that work best for them. The main thing is you are good with what you believe even if it doesn't really matter or does. By the way coming back as a vet from the Vietnam War surely was an experience in itself. I too just came back from the desert and I think such a thread is good for me to discuss some deeper topics as I surely had time to think about it but never had anyone to talk to about. Thank you for the opportunity.