From my point of view such a semantic argument would be wasted in this case.

Jesus is saying:

Matt.5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You can basically take the word "perfect" out of this altogether and just reword it as follows:

Be ye therefore like your Father which is in heaven.

This way arguments of semantics fall to the wayside.

Jesus is implying that we can indeed be like the Father.

Period amen.

No need to quibble about the semantics of words like "perfect" etc.

Jesus is implying that we can indeed be like the Father.

Yet "Christians" including various authors of the New Testament who voiced their own opinions on this very topic are not in agreement with these words that are attributed to Jesus himself. Because they claim that no man can be without Sin.

But based on what Jesus has implied that's not true, because Jesus is implying that we can indeed be as "perfect" as the Father.

It doesn't really matter how much you twist and distort the word "perfect" because of how Jesus phrased it:

Matt.5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus is only asking us to be as "perfect" as the Father.

So if you want to defile the word "perfect" then you must simultaneously defile God's own "perfection" because Jesus is only asking us to be as "perfect" as God the Father.

We are to be "perfect" as our Father which in heaven is "perfect".

In other words, we are to be as least as "perfect" as God.

If you defile or lesson the meaning of the word "perfect" in this context then all you are doing is suggesting that God's perfection is also defiled or lessened to the same degree. Because Jesus is saying that we should be the SAME.

And thus he's certainly implying that this must be possible for he would be totally foolish to be asking people to behave in a manner that he knew was beyond their capabilities.

So based on this one verse, if we are to accept the words of Jesus are TRUTH, then men can indeed be every bit as righteous and perfect as God, and the Christian's claim that this is impossible is simply false. It violates what Jesus himself is quoted as having said.

We can be perfect, and therefore when someone claims that they are perfect and a Christians laughs at them claiming that no man can be perfect they are actually laughing in the face of Jesus. Because Jesus implies otherwise.

It certainly appears that the birth of Christianity was the death of the Abrahamic religions. Apparently they've become extremely divisive ever since that time. Although even the Jews and Muslims are at odds with each other religiously, so the religion is divisive on more issues than just this notion of whether or not Jesus was a demigod.

was jesus really the "son of god",or did call everyone the son of god?


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (Bible: John 3:16).

However, it is interesting to note that the term "son of God" is used in other parts of the Bible to refer to Adam (Bible: Luke 3:38), Israel (Bible: Exodus 4:22) and David (Bible: Psalms 2:7) as well. The creatures of God are usually referred to in the Bible as children of God.

again, to be like something perfect is not the same as BEING perfect


but I agree, we are perfectly made, I believe we are also perfectly capable and designed to be imperfect in our own unique ways which keep us from being truly IDENTICAL to each other in every way,,,


when someone says they are perfect, I would totally take it in context,, if they are saying they are completely without flaw,,,or need of improvement,, i also would laugh at the suggestion

if someone says they are perfect, as in where and what they are meant to be IN THIS MOMENT, I would be willing to accept that

Well, in that context the very idea of being "perfect" is extremely subjective.

For example, supposed you went to someone's house and they claimed to be "spiritually perfect" and you looked around saw that their house is a mess with dirty clothes laying around and dirty dishes in the sink etc.

You might think to yourself, "Well they don't look like they are living a 'perfect' life to me".

But from there perspective perhaps physicality is unimportant to them. That's the domain of Satan and it irrelevant with respect to what they consider to be "spiritual perfection". Perhaps to them "spiritual perfection" simply means what Jesus had taught:

Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

They also follow the golden rule of doing unto others as they would have others do unto them.

Therefore they are as "spiritually perfect" as a person can be. Even though they may not physically appear to be spiritually perfect to you.

Perfect is actually quite easy to achieve in terms of "rules" and "laws".

For example, if a "law" states that a person is not to judge others, and you judge no one, then you have indeed satisfied that law as "perfectly" as it can be satisfied.

If you judge no one at all for any reason, then you can't improve upon that. You are indeed "perfect" with respect to that directive. (i.e. you cannot improve upon your current status with that ideal)

In this way "perfection" is indeed attainable and not impossible at all.

However, if you are laughing at their suggest that they are indeed "perfect" in this way, then clearly you are the one who is judging them to be imperfect and incorrect, thus you clearly have room for improvement concerning that specific directive.



Most spiritual people aren't concerned with what you would accept. They aren't attempting to worship or appease you.

In fact, you're very demand that you would accept or reject someone's claims implies that you are clearly judging them to be false in their claims. Which is clearly a violation of "judge not".

So perhaps the reason you are laughing at them is simply because you cannot conceive obeying these directives in their entirety.

But for them it's quite simple. Just don't judge others at all and you've attained "perfection" at least with respect to that particular directive.

If you feel you need to work more on perfecting yourself on other directives, that too is your own business. However, to judge that other people need to work on their spiritual perfection is already violating the directive, "judge not".

So that's probably a good place to start if you seek to attain perfection.

Just obey all the other directives as completely and you'll be spiritually perfect and then you'll no longer have any problem understanding how other people can achieve this.

It's really quite easy to be spiritually "perfect" in this sense.

And you don't even need to physically clean your house to achieve spiritual perfection.

So physically you can appear to be far from 'perfect' in the eyes of materialists.

I think we have discussed the 'judge not' principle before

we must make judgements, the command does not instruct us to be mindless and without assessment of words and actions


if someone were , for example, muttering to themself that it was time to kill,, I would make the judgement that they may not be safe to be around and I would remove myself from their immediate vicinity


I wouldnt judge whether THEY are a good or bad person, or if their spirit is heaven bound,,but I would judge their APPARENT sense of reason and security by their actions and words


likewise someone proclaiming that they are perfect(as in no longer capable of growing, changing, improving) would cause me to assess their words as dishonest and untrue

That's your choice.

You can interpret things to be impossible if you so choose. From my point of view that flies in the face of Jesus' request that we be perfect.

So we interpret things quite differently.

This leaves you in the extremely strange position of having no choice but to judge other people to be dishonest if they claim to be spirituality perfect.

So you've trapped yourself in a situation where you cannot possiblly free yourself from judging other people and therefore you can never achieve spiritual perfection simply because your interpretations forbid it.

I would disagree with your conclusion that to assess a situation and avoid it is the same as spiritually judging any persons who might be associate with that assessment.

If you haven't spiritually judged those people, then you have not judged them in a spiritual sense.

To burden yourself with thinking that every rational assessment equates to judging people seems to me to be disrespectful toward the teaching of Jesus.

Why?

Because Jesus taught people not to judge others. Thus if Jesus equates making rational assessments of situations to be "judging" then he would basically be demanding that people totally abandon reason.

Is that what you believe Jesus was attempting to teach people to do?

Abandon reason and common sense?

I can't accept that.

Therefore I do not equate a rational assessment of avoiding people who appear to be hazardous with "judging" them.

It would make absolutely no sense for me to make that equivalence.

Like I say that would be the same as suggesting that Jesus was asking people to behave irrationally which I personally do not accept.