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| Topic: The Big Lie | |
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I agree with a lot of what you said here but your statement, "tolerance and violence are personal things that no religious or political doctrine FORCES upon anyone and indeed EXTREMISTS choose just which parts of their religion or politics to bring to manifestation and how to do so as well," is just wrong when it comes to Islam. Wish that were not the case. We would be in a much more peaceful world if what you said was true. Why is there ALWAYS violence in the middle east? If they aren't fighting Israel, they are fighting each other. But you are absolutely correct. We as a nation have a rather questionable history in what is humanitarian and what isn't. And in supporting those that we later accuse of war crimes. Saddam Hussein anyone??? there is always violence in every country, because they are occupied by humans,, who have the ability and capacity to become violent when feeling either 'threatened' or 'entitled' I am very much a pacifict who tries to temper my anti violence beliefs with realism and I think when we dig deep enough all people have their 'reasons' for killing and MOST of those reasons usually center around a feeling that something they value or someone they value is being threatened,,,,,its really a human thing(in my opinion) much more than it is religious or political. Religion and politics are only one of a long line of complex institutions which claim a broad range of issues and causes people are willing to defend,, even until the death Like I said, I wish you were correct. Although I guess you could say you are correct. A lot of the reason for them to fight is - the ONLY sure way to Heaven is to die in a Jihad. So, they fight for fear of loosing Heaven. They would actually prefer to die in the battle they are fighting. But they must fight bravely or their death is cursed. They can't go into battle and deliberately get killed at the hands of the enemy and go to Heaven. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm what is mentioned is one persons interpretation of what is written, imagine how many interpretations must exist between billions of individuals? for just about any verse that can be quoted in the quran/bible which can be interpreted to 'support' or 'condone' violence and death and killing, there can be others which can be interpreted to directly 'condemn' or 'command' against it with biblical writings, people pick and choose which phrases to illuminate and imitate in their lives leviticus 26:7 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. I didn't look all that hard to find that website. There was a Muslim Cleric I heard on the news around 2004 or so that said, "This is our religion, why are we denying it?" Just heard it one time and it was quickly removed from any news reports. Like I said. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Read up on Mohamed himself. What he did, preached and told his followers to do. The leader of the faith not only told his followers to do this, he lead armies that did that. His glorious return to Mecca was a bloodbath where you either converted on the spot or were killed. He lead that army. There was no one spared. Literally everyone in the city was either a new convert to Islam or they were dead. This is factual information. You can find it anywhere you want to look for it. I told this to a few people now and what I find fascinating are the people that don't want to believe this will tell me things like you are and can't believe it to be true and for some reason, never bother to check for themselves. They just continue with the belief that it is a religion therefore what I am saying cannot be true. Their faith has little in common with most others. It is a really different approach to faith. I come to my conclusions BASED upon my own research and my observations about the nature of humans in general. I find many similarities between their beliefs and mine actually and I find their reactions very similar to other people throughout mankinds history who were in similar positions,,,, |
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I agree with a lot of what you said here but your statement, "tolerance and violence are personal things that no religious or political doctrine FORCES upon anyone and indeed EXTREMISTS choose just which parts of their religion or politics to bring to manifestation and how to do so as well," is just wrong when it comes to Islam. Wish that were not the case. We would be in a much more peaceful world if what you said was true. Why is there ALWAYS violence in the middle east? If they aren't fighting Israel, they are fighting each other. But you are absolutely correct. We as a nation have a rather questionable history in what is humanitarian and what isn't. And in supporting those that we later accuse of war crimes. Saddam Hussein anyone??? there is always violence in every country, because they are occupied by humans,, who have the ability and capacity to become violent when feeling either 'threatened' or 'entitled' I am very much a pacifict who tries to temper my anti violence beliefs with realism and I think when we dig deep enough all people have their 'reasons' for killing and MOST of those reasons usually center around a feeling that something they value or someone they value is being threatened,,,,,its really a human thing(in my opinion) much more than it is religious or political. Religion and politics are only one of a long line of complex institutions which claim a broad range of issues and causes people are willing to defend,, even until the death Like I said, I wish you were correct. Although I guess you could say you are correct. A lot of the reason for them to fight is - the ONLY sure way to Heaven is to die in a Jihad. So, they fight for fear of loosing Heaven. They would actually prefer to die in the battle they are fighting. But they must fight bravely or their death is cursed. They can't go into battle and deliberately get killed at the hands of the enemy and go to Heaven. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm what is mentioned is one persons interpretation of what is written, imagine how many interpretations must exist between billions of individuals? for just about any verse that can be quoted in the quran/bible which can be interpreted to 'support' or 'condone' violence and death and killing, there can be others which can be interpreted to directly 'condemn' or 'command' against it with biblical writings, people pick and choose which phrases to illuminate and imitate in their lives leviticus 26:7 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. I didn't look all that hard to find that website. There was a Muslim Cleric I heard on the news around 2004 or so that said, "This is our religion, why are we denying it?" Just heard it one time and it was quickly removed from any news reports. Like I said. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Read up on Mohamed himself. What he did, preached and told his followers to do. The leader of the faith not only told his followers to do this, he lead armies that did that. His glorious return to Mecca was a bloodbath where you either converted on the spot or were killed. He lead that army. There was no one spared. Literally everyone in the city was either a new convert to Islam or they were dead. This is factual information. You can find it anywhere you want to look for it. I told this to a few people now and what I find fascinating are the people that don't want to believe this will tell me things like you are and can't believe it to be true and for some reason, never bother to check for themselves. They just continue with the belief that it is a religion therefore what I am saying cannot be true. Their faith has little in common with most others. It is a really different approach to faith. I come to my conclusions BASED upon my own research and my observations about the nature of humans in general. I find many similarities between their beliefs and mine actually and I find their reactions very similar to other people throughout mankinds history who were in similar positions,,,, Ok, I said what I said and it is all factual information. Can't do anything more... Well, except for my statement saying they have a different approach to faith. That is my opinion. What I have been trying to say is your understanding of human nature does not apply to how they live. They truly have a different culture. I had to rethink how people would react in their lives if you were born and raised in their culture. Some things we would agree are unjust they would accept as common discipline. They wouldn't understand why we feel it is intolerable. I couldn't understand what I was reading until I suspended what I knew to be true based on how I was raised. I had to imagine what I would accept as right and wrong if I was raised in that culture. It didn't make sense to me until I did that. |
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I agree with a lot of what you said here but your statement, "tolerance and violence are personal things that no religious or political doctrine FORCES upon anyone and indeed EXTREMISTS choose just which parts of their religion or politics to bring to manifestation and how to do so as well," is just wrong when it comes to Islam. Wish that were not the case. We would be in a much more peaceful world if what you said was true. Why is there ALWAYS violence in the middle east? If they aren't fighting Israel, they are fighting each other. But you are absolutely correct. We as a nation have a rather questionable history in what is humanitarian and what isn't. And in supporting those that we later accuse of war crimes. Saddam Hussein anyone??? there is always violence in every country, because they are occupied by humans,, who have the ability and capacity to become violent when feeling either 'threatened' or 'entitled' I am very much a pacifict who tries to temper my anti violence beliefs with realism and I think when we dig deep enough all people have their 'reasons' for killing and MOST of those reasons usually center around a feeling that something they value or someone they value is being threatened,,,,,its really a human thing(in my opinion) much more than it is religious or political. Religion and politics are only one of a long line of complex institutions which claim a broad range of issues and causes people are willing to defend,, even until the death Like I said, I wish you were correct. Although I guess you could say you are correct. A lot of the reason for them to fight is - the ONLY sure way to Heaven is to die in a Jihad. So, they fight for fear of loosing Heaven. They would actually prefer to die in the battle they are fighting. But they must fight bravely or their death is cursed. They can't go into battle and deliberately get killed at the hands of the enemy and go to Heaven. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm what is mentioned is one persons interpretation of what is written, imagine how many interpretations must exist between billions of individuals? for just about any verse that can be quoted in the quran/bible which can be interpreted to 'support' or 'condone' violence and death and killing, there can be others which can be interpreted to directly 'condemn' or 'command' against it with biblical writings, people pick and choose which phrases to illuminate and imitate in their lives leviticus 26:7 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. I didn't look all that hard to find that website. There was a Muslim Cleric I heard on the news around 2004 or so that said, "This is our religion, why are we denying it?" Just heard it one time and it was quickly removed from any news reports. Like I said. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Read up on Mohamed himself. What he did, preached and told his followers to do. The leader of the faith not only told his followers to do this, he lead armies that did that. His glorious return to Mecca was a bloodbath where you either converted on the spot or were killed. He lead that army. There was no one spared. Literally everyone in the city was either a new convert to Islam or they were dead. This is factual information. You can find it anywhere you want to look for it. I told this to a few people now and what I find fascinating are the people that don't want to believe this will tell me things like you are and can't believe it to be true and for some reason, never bother to check for themselves. They just continue with the belief that it is a religion therefore what I am saying cannot be true. Their faith has little in common with most others. It is a really different approach to faith. I come to my conclusions BASED upon my own research and my observations about the nature of humans in general. I find many similarities between their beliefs and mine actually and I find their reactions very similar to other people throughout mankinds history who were in similar positions,,,, Ok, I said what I said and it is all factual information. Can't do anything more... Well, except for my statement saying they have a different approach to faith. That is my opinion. What I have been trying to say is your understanding of human nature does not apply to how they live. They truly have a different culture. I had to rethink how people would react in their lives if you were born and raised in their culture. Some things we would agree are unjust they would accept as common discipline. They wouldn't understand why we feel it is intolerable. I couldn't understand what I was reading until I suspended what I knew to be true based on how I was raised. I had to imagine what I would accept as right and wrong if I was raised in that culture. It didn't make sense to me until I did that. I dont understand why human nature doesnt apply to how they live? I do understand they have a different culture. my information is 'factual' as well, being that I can only research and then INTERPRET the information I find much like people try to interpret, broadly and unconditionally , what CHRISTIANS believe based upon their interpretation of some of the things in the bible(while ignoring anything else in the same book which seems to say something different) the western world, in my opinion, is stuck in interpreting PARTS of what they have read from someone elses interpretation and just expand upon it,,while not really taking a look at or considering valid any information to the contrary,,, I dont appreciate it much when it is done to me as a christian, and I can understand muslims not appreciating it being done to them I try not to tell people what they or others think and feel, I find it highly offensive,,, I rather look at actions and talk about those and the majority of muslims arent engaged in actions which lead me to some consensus about them wanting to harm me or any other christian,,,, |
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Global warming - The earth has regular cycles of warm and cold periods. I believe the cycle is something like 5,000 or 50,000 years. Can't remember the exact timing. but I do know that if you look at the cycle we are "past due" for a warming cycle. I haven't seen any evidence that has proven we are solely responsible for global warming and the earth's normal cycle has no bearing on it. I personally believe it is the height of arrogance to believe we as people can have such a significant impact on the weather. Can't remember where I heard this. I think it was back in the early 90s. A study was done on the pollution from the start of the industrial age up to the present. They found the total amount of CO2 produced in that time frame was less than one volcanic eruption. If I remember correctly, volcanoes erupt on a fairly regular basis. But that is totally ignored by people that claim we as a society are solely responsible. As for weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and HAD used them a few times. Not only did he have them he demonstrated he had no compunction in using them. That is a fact. Just because we couldn't find any after we invaded does not now disprove the fact that he had them and did use them. To think he abandoned his program is foolish. Can someone tell me how hard it would be to hide a warehouse full of weapons in a country the size of California that is mostly sand? What would stop him from having them take a drive 100 miles out of the city and pick some random spot to dig a hole and bury them in the sand? Do you really think he would leave them in warehouses that we could find when that was one of the stated purposes for the invasion for months before we actually invaded? http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp I think we needed to invade anyway for humanitarian reasons. But the best reason to invade was in a speech Bush gave on 9/12/01. He said something like any country that harbors or aides terrorists will be considered an enemy of the U.S. We will fight these nations. Saddam Hussein was the only leader in the world that openly defied this statement. He dared dared Bush to invade. HE also 'dared' BUSH to debate him, but that didnt happen. Taking a dare isnt really a significant enough reason for me for a president to go to war,,,, there are so many things wrong with that, in my opinion the first is the notion that we should assume (to the point of sending our boys to war) that he has these 'wmd's' because he had used them before what he used were CHEMICAL weapons produces by CHEMICALS WE SENT HIM along with other countries,, it should be pretty simple to determine what was sent and if it was accounted for and those types of weapons require pretty close contact(as in Iraq-Iran) to pose a threat,,,,and when they were used it had been TEN YEARS previous to this 'war' in strikes that OUR INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES assisted in ...so war against anyone supporting terrorists would be kind of hypocritical considering that we did just that and have done just that on many occasions,,,, the fact that no wmds were found or have been found in any 'significantly dangerous' quantity by now, is pretty conclusive in my opinion that the reports that they were INDEED there, were erroneous ( I think it would be easier to hide one man than all those supposed weapons and we did manage to FIND SADDAM so his capacity for 'hiding', in my opinion, was just not that FAR EVOLVED) honestly, invading Iraq was in play before Bush ever took office, but the powers couldnt find a significant enough reason to give the citizens until Osama dropped 9/11 in their laps,,,,, Yes but the reports that their were WMDs were from someone from Iraq. Yea we didn't know he lied. He now says he did. Sometimes you just have to go off the intelligence you have. |
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Obama is nothing more than a big stinky fart! He was blown out of someones *** and has been stinkin' up the country for the past while or so, but not to worry...he'll be aired out soon! |
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I agree with a lot of what you said here but your statement, "tolerance and violence are personal things that no religious or political doctrine FORCES upon anyone and indeed EXTREMISTS choose just which parts of their religion or politics to bring to manifestation and how to do so as well," is just wrong when it comes to Islam. Wish that were not the case. We would be in a much more peaceful world if what you said was true. Why is there ALWAYS violence in the middle east? If they aren't fighting Israel, they are fighting each other. But you are absolutely correct. We as a nation have a rather questionable history in what is humanitarian and what isn't. And in supporting those that we later accuse of war crimes. Saddam Hussein anyone??? there is always violence in every country, because they are occupied by humans,, who have the ability and capacity to become violent when feeling either 'threatened' or 'entitled' I am very much a pacifict who tries to temper my anti violence beliefs with realism and I think when we dig deep enough all people have their 'reasons' for killing and MOST of those reasons usually center around a feeling that something they value or someone they value is being threatened,,,,,its really a human thing(in my opinion) much more than it is religious or political. Religion and politics are only one of a long line of complex institutions which claim a broad range of issues and causes people are willing to defend,, even until the death Like I said, I wish you were correct. Although I guess you could say you are correct. A lot of the reason for them to fight is - the ONLY sure way to Heaven is to die in a Jihad. So, they fight for fear of loosing Heaven. They would actually prefer to die in the battle they are fighting. But they must fight bravely or their death is cursed. They can't go into battle and deliberately get killed at the hands of the enemy and go to Heaven. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm what is mentioned is one persons interpretation of what is written, imagine how many interpretations must exist between billions of individuals? for just about any verse that can be quoted in the quran/bible which can be interpreted to 'support' or 'condone' violence and death and killing, there can be others which can be interpreted to directly 'condemn' or 'command' against it with biblical writings, people pick and choose which phrases to illuminate and imitate in their lives leviticus 26:7 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. I didn't look all that hard to find that website. There was a Muslim Cleric I heard on the news around 2004 or so that said, "This is our religion, why are we denying it?" Just heard it one time and it was quickly removed from any news reports. Like I said. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Read up on Mohamed himself. What he did, preached and told his followers to do. The leader of the faith not only told his followers to do this, he lead armies that did that. His glorious return to Mecca was a bloodbath where you either converted on the spot or were killed. He lead that army. There was no one spared. Literally everyone in the city was either a new convert to Islam or they were dead. This is factual information. You can find it anywhere you want to look for it. I told this to a few people now and what I find fascinating are the people that don't want to believe this will tell me things like you are and can't believe it to be true and for some reason, never bother to check for themselves. They just continue with the belief that it is a religion therefore what I am saying cannot be true. Their faith has little in common with most others. It is a really different approach to faith. I come to my conclusions BASED upon my own research and my observations about the nature of humans in general. I find many similarities between their beliefs and mine actually and I find their reactions very similar to other people throughout mankinds history who were in similar positions,,,, Ok, I said what I said and it is all factual information. Can't do anything more... Well, except for my statement saying they have a different approach to faith. That is my opinion. What I have been trying to say is your understanding of human nature does not apply to how they live. They truly have a different culture. I had to rethink how people would react in their lives if you were born and raised in their culture. Some things we would agree are unjust they would accept as common discipline. They wouldn't understand why we feel it is intolerable. I couldn't understand what I was reading until I suspended what I knew to be true based on how I was raised. I had to imagine what I would accept as right and wrong if I was raised in that culture. It didn't make sense to me until I did that. I dont understand why human nature doesnt apply to how they live? I do understand they have a different culture. my information is 'factual' as well, being that I can only research and then INTERPRET the information I find much like people try to interpret, broadly and unconditionally , what CHRISTIANS believe based upon their interpretation of some of the things in the bible(while ignoring anything else in the same book which seems to say something different) the western world, in my opinion, is stuck in interpreting PARTS of what they have read from someone elses interpretation and just expand upon it,,while not really taking a look at or considering valid any information to the contrary,,, I dont appreciate it much when it is done to me as a christian, and I can understand muslims not appreciating it being done to them I try not to tell people what they or others think and feel, I find it highly offensive,,, I rather look at actions and talk about those and the majority of muslims arent engaged in actions which lead me to some consensus about them wanting to harm me or any other christian,,,, I understand what you are saying. Then you tell me why the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslim. If they are so much like Christians then wouldn't they be more like the Christians that bombed the abortion clinics. Just a handful over a millennium. Not a few a year every year for how long now? That is systemic. There must be something in their belief structure that would at least support it if not encourage it. If you don't believe that to be true please tell me why. Answer the question - Why is it the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslim and why are they praised by their people afterward? Because that does not fit in my understanding of human nature. By the way, I never said it was the majority of Muslims either. I did say it was taught and lead by their leader. There are the Sunnis and the Shites. Can't remember which is which but one group rejects that part of his life as what he needed to do at the time but it doesn't apply today. The other says this was the later part of his life and teaching therefore the more relavent. They fight between themselves over this issue. Both claim the other are not true believers. But both sides would agree that is what he did and taught. That is what I have been saying. |
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I agree with a lot of what you said here but your statement, "tolerance and violence are personal things that no religious or political doctrine FORCES upon anyone and indeed EXTREMISTS choose just which parts of their religion or politics to bring to manifestation and how to do so as well," is just wrong when it comes to Islam. Wish that were not the case. We would be in a much more peaceful world if what you said was true. Why is there ALWAYS violence in the middle east? If they aren't fighting Israel, they are fighting each other. But you are absolutely correct. We as a nation have a rather questionable history in what is humanitarian and what isn't. And in supporting those that we later accuse of war crimes. Saddam Hussein anyone??? there is always violence in every country, because they are occupied by humans,, who have the ability and capacity to become violent when feeling either 'threatened' or 'entitled' I am very much a pacifict who tries to temper my anti violence beliefs with realism and I think when we dig deep enough all people have their 'reasons' for killing and MOST of those reasons usually center around a feeling that something they value or someone they value is being threatened,,,,,its really a human thing(in my opinion) much more than it is religious or political. Religion and politics are only one of a long line of complex institutions which claim a broad range of issues and causes people are willing to defend,, even until the death Like I said, I wish you were correct. Although I guess you could say you are correct. A lot of the reason for them to fight is - the ONLY sure way to Heaven is to die in a Jihad. So, they fight for fear of loosing Heaven. They would actually prefer to die in the battle they are fighting. But they must fight bravely or their death is cursed. They can't go into battle and deliberately get killed at the hands of the enemy and go to Heaven. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm what is mentioned is one persons interpretation of what is written, imagine how many interpretations must exist between billions of individuals? for just about any verse that can be quoted in the quran/bible which can be interpreted to 'support' or 'condone' violence and death and killing, there can be others which can be interpreted to directly 'condemn' or 'command' against it with biblical writings, people pick and choose which phrases to illuminate and imitate in their lives leviticus 26:7 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. I didn't look all that hard to find that website. There was a Muslim Cleric I heard on the news around 2004 or so that said, "This is our religion, why are we denying it?" Just heard it one time and it was quickly removed from any news reports. Like I said. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Read up on Mohamed himself. What he did, preached and told his followers to do. The leader of the faith not only told his followers to do this, he lead armies that did that. His glorious return to Mecca was a bloodbath where you either converted on the spot or were killed. He lead that army. There was no one spared. Literally everyone in the city was either a new convert to Islam or they were dead. This is factual information. You can find it anywhere you want to look for it. I told this to a few people now and what I find fascinating are the people that don't want to believe this will tell me things like you are and can't believe it to be true and for some reason, never bother to check for themselves. They just continue with the belief that it is a religion therefore what I am saying cannot be true. Their faith has little in common with most others. It is a really different approach to faith. I come to my conclusions BASED upon my own research and my observations about the nature of humans in general. I find many similarities between their beliefs and mine actually and I find their reactions very similar to other people throughout mankinds history who were in similar positions,,,, Ok, I said what I said and it is all factual information. Can't do anything more... Well, except for my statement saying they have a different approach to faith. That is my opinion. What I have been trying to say is your understanding of human nature does not apply to how they live. They truly have a different culture. I had to rethink how people would react in their lives if you were born and raised in their culture. Some things we would agree are unjust they would accept as common discipline. They wouldn't understand why we feel it is intolerable. I couldn't understand what I was reading until I suspended what I knew to be true based on how I was raised. I had to imagine what I would accept as right and wrong if I was raised in that culture. It didn't make sense to me until I did that. I dont understand why human nature doesnt apply to how they live? I do understand they have a different culture. my information is 'factual' as well, being that I can only research and then INTERPRET the information I find much like people try to interpret, broadly and unconditionally , what CHRISTIANS believe based upon their interpretation of some of the things in the bible(while ignoring anything else in the same book which seems to say something different) the western world, in my opinion, is stuck in interpreting PARTS of what they have read from someone elses interpretation and just expand upon it,,while not really taking a look at or considering valid any information to the contrary,,, I dont appreciate it much when it is done to me as a christian, and I can understand muslims not appreciating it being done to them I try not to tell people what they or others think and feel, I find it highly offensive,,, I rather look at actions and talk about those and the majority of muslims arent engaged in actions which lead me to some consensus about them wanting to harm me or any other christian,,,, I understand what you are saying. Then you tell me why the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslim. If they are so much like Christians then wouldn't they be more like the Christians that bombed the abortion clinics. Just a handful over a millennium. Not a few a year every year for how long now? That is systemic. There must be something in their belief structure that would at least support it if not encourage it. If you don't believe that to be true please tell me why. Answer the question - Why is it the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslim and why are they praised by their people afterward? Because that does not fit in my understanding of human nature. By the way, I never said it was the majority of Muslims either. I did say it was taught and lead by their leader. There are the Sunnis and the Shites. Can't remember which is which but one group rejects that part of his life as what he needed to do at the time but it doesn't apply today. The other says this was the later part of his life and teaching therefore the more relavent. They fight between themselves over this issue. Both claim the other are not true believers. But both sides would agree that is what he did and taught. That is what I have been saying. suicide bombing is not the only type of violence perpetrated against others,,,,so I dont see the relevance of the question why are majority of 'world wars' between 'christian' nations, why are the ONLY places to use NUCLEAR weapons 'christian' nations,,,those actions kill as many or more 'innocent' people as suicide bombing what is it in christians that make is alright to go to wars and accept 'collateral'(innocent) life in the name of liberating others or creating a democracy? probably the same thing in some muslims which make it alright to take innocent life in the name of liberating themself from christian rule or non muslim forces,,, |
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suicide bombing is not the only type of violence perpetrated against others,,,,so I dont see the relevance of the question why are majority of 'world wars' between 'christian' nations, why are the ONLY places to use NUCLEAR weapons 'christian' nations,,,those actions kill as many or more 'innocent' people as suicide bombing what is it in christians that make is alright to go to wars and accept 'collateral'(innocent) life in the name of liberating others or creating a democracy? probably the same thing in some muslims which make it alright to take innocent life in the name of liberating themself from christian rule or non muslim forces,,, Um, ok, You obviously refuse to acknowledge the issue I am talking about when you try to say Christians are the same or worse than Muslims. The biggest difference is - Christians that commit acts of violence are acting against their faith. Muslims that commit acts of violence are following their beliefs. If you can't see the significance of the difference... You win... |
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suicide bombing is not the only type of violence perpetrated against others,,,,so I dont see the relevance of the question why are majority of 'world wars' between 'christian' nations, why are the ONLY places to use NUCLEAR weapons 'christian' nations,,,those actions kill as many or more 'innocent' people as suicide bombing what is it in christians that make is alright to go to wars and accept 'collateral'(innocent) life in the name of liberating others or creating a democracy? probably the same thing in some muslims which make it alright to take innocent life in the name of liberating themself from christian rule or non muslim forces,,, Um, ok, You obviously refuse to acknowledge the issue I am talking about when you try to say Christians are the same or worse than Muslims. The biggest difference is - Christians that commit acts of violence are acting against their faith. Muslims that commit acts of violence are following their beliefs. If you can't see the significance of the difference... You win... I am not trying to win. I am only suggesting a broader point of view. It is not so easy as claiming one is acting against faith because I can point to many muslim sites with 'devout' muslims who will tell you suicide bombers are acting against faith too,,,,why? because, like the bible, the Quran is full of not only direct commands but examples and historical accounts, and like the bible, readers often mix and match those different contexts to fit their own psyche, personal and emotional needs. when I think about it, bombs are a fairly recent resource probably not being used in the days of the bible or muhammed and probably not mentioned in either book as a resource for achieving heavenly status but people take parts and interpret them based on their modern lives in the way that makes the most sense to them |
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suicide bombing is not the only type of violence perpetrated against others,,,,so I dont see the relevance of the question why are majority of 'world wars' between 'christian' nations, why are the ONLY places to use NUCLEAR weapons 'christian' nations,,,those actions kill as many or more 'innocent' people as suicide bombing what is it in christians that make is alright to go to wars and accept 'collateral'(innocent) life in the name of liberating others or creating a democracy? probably the same thing in some muslims which make it alright to take innocent life in the name of liberating themself from christian rule or non muslim forces,,, Um, ok, You obviously refuse to acknowledge the issue I am talking about when you try to say Christians are the same or worse than Muslims. The biggest difference is - Christians that commit acts of violence are acting against their faith. Muslims that commit acts of violence are following their beliefs. If you can't see the significance of the difference... You win... I am not trying to win. I am only suggesting a broader point of view. It is not so easy as claiming one is acting against faith because I can point to many muslim sites with 'devout' muslims who will tell you suicide bombers are acting against faith too,,,,why? because, like the bible, the Quran is full of not only direct commands but examples and historical accounts, and like the bible, readers often mix and match those different contexts to fit their own psyche, personal and emotional needs. when I think about it, bombs are a fairly recent resource probably not being used in the days of the bible or muhammed and probably not mentioned in either book as a resource for achieving heavenly status but people take parts and interpret them based on their modern lives in the way that makes the most sense to them Another part of the question I was trying to answer was - Why is it only in recent history that Muslims have been making waves. Because before the need for oil, they really didn't have a whole lot of power. Now that they are the oil barons, they have enough money to do pretty much whatever they want. Which lead me to another question. Is their behavior new or is this historically how they behaved. Guess what, this is the way they have always lived. Once again - there are two different Muslim groups. One would say suicide bombings are not a part of their faith because they only look at the early part of Mohamed's life when he preached in a similar manner that Jesus did. Mohamed eventually was run out of Mecca and was essentially starving. He hooked up with a nomadic militant band that embraced what he said and his teachings turned to convert by sword. They acknowledge he did this later in life but contend that he had to do that to start the faith. It only applied to the early Muslim church. The second group says this latter half of his life is the focus because it was later in his life therefore more refined or correct. Jesus never told His followers to kill those that disagreed. Muhammad did. Jesus never lead an army to defeat the unbelievers. Muhammad did. Jesus never married. Muhammad had multiple wives (13 I believe) with the youngest being 6 years old. But he didn't consummate their marriage until she was 9. Jesus never had any selfish preachings. Muhammad did. One example being the wife of his adopted son told him she would not marry him unless Allah commands it. Guess what? Allah commanded it. It is in the Quran. I would say there is a WHOLE lot of room for interpretation in the Muslim faith. But the fact still remains. Muhammad DID preach to convert at the tip of a sword and DID lead an army to defeat unbelievers. That is not debated in the Islamic community. The debate is whether or not they should follow those teachings today. Like in the Christian faith, Jesus tells us to go and spread the Word. How many Christians do you know that try to convert someone to their faith on a regular basis? Just because they don't do it doesn't mean that Jesus didn't say it. Same applies to what I have been saying about the Muslim faith. He said it and did it. That doesn't mean that every Muslim believes that applies to them. But the ones that do go out and commit violence in the name of Islam are doing so following what Muhammad did preach. It is called a Jihad - Holy War. They are as radical as a Catholic Priest is for talking to an unbeliever in Christianity trying to get them to convert. They are both following what the leader of their faith told them to do to convert someone to their faith. |
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Obama is nothing more than a big stinky fart! He was blown out of someones *** and has been stinkin' up the country for the past while or so, but not to worry...he'll be aired out soon! |
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The biggest difference is - Christians that commit acts of violence are acting against their faith. Muslims that commit acts of violence are following their beliefs Ummmm. I dunno about that. I got this email last night In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Jew,
homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your adoring fan, James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian :) |
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The biggest difference is - Christians that commit acts of violence are acting against their faith. Muslims that commit acts of violence are following their beliefs Ummmm. I dunno about that. I got this email last night In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your adoring fan, James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian :) Okey - I'll bite - What in the world does that have to do with Muhammad telling his followers to convert or kill the unbelievers? or How does that show that Jesus told his followers to do the same thing? |
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I thought it showed that the Christian god told people to smite a lot of other people for silly reasons. Seemed pretty violent to me.
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I don't know where to begin on this...
I read a book by a former Muslim Cleric that converted to Christianity. His explanation for this was, the God of the Old Testament told His followers to kill and fight in specific battles. He never gave a standing order to kill unbelievers. While in Islam, there is a standing order to kill those that do not believe in Allah. In his mind, there was a VAST difference between the two. You can discount it if you choose. I will go with his take on it. After all, he would know better than you or I. He knows Christianity better than most Christians and certainly knows Islam a whole lot better... |
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the old testament is kind of like god is pissed or something to prove... wild stuff in it
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I think the issue is, for the most part, much-ado-about-nothing. Those muslims that I have known are about as strictly obedient to the Quran as the average Catholic is to the bible
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I think the issue is, for the most part, much-ado-about-nothing. Those muslims that I have known are about as strictly obedient to the Quran as the average Catholic is to the bible Are you saying that teenagers strapping explosives to their chest to kill people that don't have the same faith they do is nothing? It is no big deal? Or are you going to tell me that we don't really know they are Muslim teenagers doing this... and you want another reason --- http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2011/04/02/pastors-dumb-stunt-leads-to-violence-where-is-the-word-disproportionate/ Why should a man who burned a book be held accountable for a mob that killed dozens in protest of him burning a book? They actually demanded he apologize for it when the Muslim nations do a whole lot more than burn the Bible. And they tried to say the blood was on his hands. Remember the Norwegian cartoons that were printed depicting Muhammad with a bomb on his head. That lead to about 100 deaths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy A video of the protest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs If you care to look, you can find thousands of videos like this of protests by Muslims. Yes, obviously I'm wrong. Islam is a peace loving nation and the people violating the Quran or drawing cartoons of Muhammad are responsible for the ensuing riots and deaths. The death threats they receive for drawing the cartoons is reasonable and expected. It is their fault. We may as well just hand them over to be killed for committing such a violent act of hatred as to draw a cartoon. Why do those people have to apologize and no on criticizes the people that, I don't know, ACTUALLY KILLED someone over it. MsHarmony - remember when I said these people are VERY skilled at propaganda? The cartoons were reprinted for the Islamic public to see the vile treatment of their beloved leader. The cartoon that was actually drawn was of a man with a bomb for a hat. The cartoon printed in Islamic nations was of a pig with a bomb strapped to his snout. I guess we as a civilized nation must bow to the demands of those that are intolerant because we don't want to upset them. That is the whole problem with the politically correct movement. The people that do something that may offend someone are held responsible for the actions taken by those that were offended. Apparently if someone offends me, that gives me free license to carry out any dastardly dead I want and I am owed an apology because I was unable to control my anger at being offended. You wanna run that by me again how this is "much-ado-about-nothing?" And these are only 2 of literally hundreds of examples of how the Islamic nations react to perceived insults. I am not defending the actions of a man that was warned this would lead to violence. I am condemning the acts of violence as a reasonable response to the burning of a book. That protest you saw will be in America as the population percentage of Islam increases in the US. This will be the world we all live in if we keep saying this is no big deal. |
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Edited by
artlo
on
Thu 04/14/11 08:01 AM
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Are you saying that teenagers strapping explosives to their chest to kill people that don't have the same faith they do is nothing? It is no big deal? I'm saying that I think these anti-social behaviors have little to do with their religion. Religion has always been used by various peoples to justify perverse bahaviors. I don't think those religions motivate them. That is true with Christian white supremacy groups Medievil Crusaders, Mongol raiders, I view all religion as a secondary system of Government. "Obey these laws, or you will suffer the wrath of God"! I think that religion is used as a justifier, not a motivator. It justifies what people already want to do for any number of socio-psychological reasons Or are you going to tell me that we don't really know they are Muslim teenagers doing this... |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 04/14/11 09:07 AM
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Are you saying that teenagers strapping explosives to their chest to kill people that don't have the same faith they do is nothing? It is no big deal? I'm saying that I think these anti-social behaviors have little to do with their religion. Religion has always been used by various peoples to justify perverse bahaviors. I don't think those religions motivate them. That is true with Christian white supremacy groups Medievil Crusaders, Mongol raiders, I view all religion as a secondary system of Government. "Obey these laws, or you will suffer the wrath of God"! I think that religion is used as a justifier, not a motivator. It justifies what people already want to do for any number of socio-psychological reasons Or are you going to tell me that we don't really know they are Muslim teenagers doing this... I agree. People take a very small minority and because they are a bigger minority than someone elses use that to justify painting the whole group with the same brush. It is STILL a very small minority of muslims harming non muslims. It is still sad to see people judging so harshly those they have never met and dont know because they share a similar religion to someone else they have heard of doing terrible things. ITs similar, to why so many people hate americans, they paint us all with the same brush because of the behavior of a minority who may have visited their country, or a minority in government. As far as a muslim cleric claiming there is a standing order in islam to kill non believers. I could also find christian pastors who interpret the bible in some pretty strange ways. Cleric or not , it is only ONE interpretation and Im sure it wouldnt be difficult to find other clerics who are in disagreement. If muslims were as much of a threat with suicide bombers as we have been with our nuclear weapons,,,then I would worry. Not to say that we should not be cautious and aware of our surroundings and those around us , but Im more likely to be harmed by a fellow american than by a muslim in america,,,thats just the truth of it. |
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