I'm glad you cleared that up cowboy. Now I know why you believe in the Christian God. You simply wish it to be true.

But your wishes are not enough to convince other people and just because you wish it, that doesn't make it true for anyone else.

Yet you continue to speak as if your truth is everybody's truth.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm here for enlightening discussion. To talk with other fellow people of our own different beliefs. Not trying to "prove" my beliefs, not trying to sway another to my beliefs. Just merely discussion.

Why is it when a Christian or person of other "religious" beliefs discusses their beliefs it is taken as they are trying to convince/convert someone else? And it's not seen the same when an atheists speak of their beliefs in God and or the lack there of? Why is it always seen as the believer trying to convince/convert the unbeliever, but not seen as the unbeliever trying to convince/convert the believer?

Cowboy wrote:

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm here for enlightening discussion. To talk with other fellow people of our own different beliefs. Not trying to "prove" my beliefs, not trying to sway another to my beliefs. Just merely discussion.

Why is it when a Christian or person of other "religious" beliefs discusses their beliefs it is taken as they are trying to convince/convert someone else? And it's not seen the same when an atheists speak of their beliefs in God and or the lack there of? Why is it always seen as the believer trying to convince/convert the unbeliever, but not seen as the unbeliever trying to convince/convert the believer? Again, we're just here for discussion, enlightenment, friendly conversation.

Because you Christians all think you have it exactly right and everyone else is simply wrong. That's it in a nutshell.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm here for enlightening discussion. To talk with other fellow people of our own different beliefs. Not trying to "prove" my beliefs, not trying to sway another to my beliefs. Just merely discussion.

Why is it when a Christian or person of other "religious" beliefs discusses their beliefs it is taken as they are trying to convince/convert someone else? And it's not seen the same when an atheists speak of their beliefs in God and or the lack there of? Why is it always seen as the believer trying to convince/convert the unbeliever, but not seen as the unbeliever trying to convince/convert the believer? Again, we're just here for discussion, enlightenment, friendly conversation.

I'm glad you cleared that up Cowboy. I am happy to have enlightened you.





Oh don't worry, you haven't actually convinced anyone.

Miles, please read more carefully.

The quote says "who is called by My name", not "who calls my name".

So clearly it's only Jesuses he talks about.

What he means to say, is that all children ought to be named at baptisem, "Jesus of Nazareth".


Who is called by my name has a dual purpose.

You are Called.. The calling.. as in you hear his voice and another you will not follow. The calling..

and 2.. A family name. Many prophets were called by his name. JeremYah, with a "Y" IsiaYah, ZecharYah all have the family name of Yah the same as Yahshua his only begotten son.

The jews have no problem saying JC..I do but they don't because they know it means nothing to them and you are not calling on Yahweh's name.. The " I Am" That Yahshua was condemned for saying he was and so was Stephen.

Nmaes mean alot. It's respect. yes it is true why a jew will not say Yahweh and If you refer to Yahshua as the son in parts of the world you may be told to not to say that name again or suffer the consequinces as I was on Devon street in Chicago's jewish district.

I have spoke with many Rabbi's and Jewish or Levitical priests of the Cohens and they will not deny that Yahweh's name is said as it sounds. The High priests who give the Blessings at the Wailing wall are from the levitical priesthood Just like Arron who it has been passed down to.

It has not been lost as the High priests do keep tradition even though the Temple is not standing and they can not enter on The Day of Atonement each year with the name Yahweh (YHWH in the Paleo Hebrew lettering) on thier foreheads.

That is why I said that. The theme of Scripture is family and the family has a name. rev 14 speaks of this. even helel in the number of his name has copied this. and name is part of his own.

I do not see how you can say IsiaYah says anything different but i am not hear to say convert anyone. you deside whats right for you. Blessings...Miles

I like your avatar. It's very professional and look like you are being very productive even when you're actually posting on the forums.

That photo makes me want to get my butt in gear and set up an art room. I already have all the art supplies, I just need to set up a space to work in.

Because you Christians all think you have it exactly right and everyone else is simply wrong. That's it in a nutshell.

I don't see how you can say that unless you've dramatically changed your position from your previous stance. You've stated before that you are a "Servant of your Lord", out to spread "His word". You've also stated in the past that you do it out of love because you're concerned about "saving" people, and helping people to "Find the Lord".

In fact, you've stated explicitly in no uncertain terms that "Jesus is the only way to God". You refuse to hear of anything other than this. You've even stated on several occasions that you're not even interested in hearing about other religions or spiritual philosophies because you already have the "Truth".

I have no problem with your believe in this regard. But why then pretend otherwise? That's the part I don't understand.

If you genuinely feel that you're a "Servant of God" out to spread his word in no uncertain terms, then why pretend otherwise?

What's wrong with honesty?

That's the part I don't understand.



Well, seriously Cowboy how can you even ask such a question in the face of the religion that you support?

First off, it's usually the Protestant Christians who are out to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of others. That's just a fact of life. It's no secret that the Christian doctrine itself makes these sorts of claims (either believe in this religion or you're "rejecting God"). That's part and parcel of the actual doctrine.

Moreover, Christianity, as well as all of the Abrahamic religions are indeed based on a "jealous God" concept. They are all based on the Ten Commandments the very first of which basically states "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".

So this pits the Abrahamic religions against each other as well as against the whole rest of the world, simply because they are stuck with a "Jealous God" who won't tolerate any other "gods", and that basically means no other religions.

You don't see this kind of stuff coming from religions like Wicca, or Buddhism, etc. And you certainly don't see it coming from the atheists.

The reason that it might appear to you that people are singling your religion out, is simply because the religion you have chosen to believe in has already singled out everyone else!

Jesus is the Only Way! And "Thou shalt have no other gods before the God of Abraham!"

This is old hat Cowboy.

How can you not be aware of the religious "intolerance" of your very own religion?

~~~~~~

Moreover, religions don't need to "Prove" anything. Religions are based on "Faith".

Have you ever seen anyone trying to "Prove" to anyone that Wicca is true? Or that Buddhism is true? I seriously doubt it. Although I imagine you could find rare people who do try to prove those spiritual faiths. But not anywhere near on the scale that Christians attempt to proselytize their religion.

Of course the atheists, and anyone who recognizes the intellectual achievements of science, are going to be speaking in terms of evidence and "proofs", of what the scientific method has revealed to us.

However science is not a religion, and totally opposite to the falsities that you spread, science is not based on "faith" either. It's based on observation, physical evidence, logic, mathematics, reason, and most importantly it's based on the work of thousands of independent scientists any one of which would love nothing more than to prove previous results and conclusions of science to be wrong.

It's precisely the opposite of what religious people do. They are all out to prove a single conclusion to be right, not wrong! And they've already shown that they'll lie, and misrepresent known facts just to try to fool people into believing that their religion might have merit. It's truly amazing the lengths of dishonesty that they'll go in an attempt to support their religious faith.

So the religious "Christians" (certainly not all of them), but the ones who are out to proselytize and evangelize, have gotten themselves caught up in the "proof" thing because they view science as their opposition!

Buddhism, for example, has no problem with science. There is no conflict between the spiritual philosophy of Buddhism and science.

In fact, here's what Albert Einstein had to say on this very matter:

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism." - (Albert Einstein)

One of the greatest problems with Christianity is that in order for Christianity to be correct, modern science needs to be wrong. So the Christians are up against a real brick wall on that one. They need to discredit science in order to keep their religion alive because their religion doesn't coexist with evolution very well.

So the problem is with your religion Cowboy. You're religion conflicts with knowledge that has been considered to have been "proven" to many people (myself included). Thus you need to find a way to discredit science in order for your religion to stand.

Obviously your foremost method is to simply reduce science to being nothing more than "faith" itself, thus placing it on equal footing with your faith-based religion. The problem with that approach is two-fold.

1. Most people aren't prepared to accept you assertion that science has no more merit than a totally unproven religious tale. (myself included in this group)

2. Even if a person were to accept this idea that science has no more merit than religious myths, that still doesn't help your agenda, because that ideal necessarily places all religions and spiritual philosophies on equal footing.

Well, gee whiz. If everything is on equal footing then there's no reason to chose to believe any one over any other. May as well just pick the one you like the best in that. For me, I would pick either Buddhism or Wicca over Christianity if they are all on equal footing. They're simply prettier spiritual views, IMHO, and I find them both to be far more attractive than the Abrahamic religions.

So even if you reduce everything to being equally "faith-based" it doesn't help your cause.

And what's your cause?

Well, you've stated it before. You're a "Servant of you Lord" out to "Spread His Word" because you love people and want to save them from the wrath of God that this religion predicts will fall upon anyone who refuses to accept Jesus as their "Lord and Savior". You've been preaching that we must "Obey God" for months now. And you keep referencing the text of the Holy Bible as the "Word of God" that we must "Obey".

Unless you've changed your agenda since then?

First off, it's usually the Protestant Christians who are out to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of others. That's just a fact of life. It's no secret that the Christian doctrine itself makes these sorts of claims (either believe in this religion or you're "rejecting God"). That's part and parcel of the actual doctrine.

Lots of talk, Miles, completely off-target. I said "who is called by my name" and "who calls my name" are different in meaning, yet you used the two as if their meanings were completely interchangeable.

Your essay did not touch on that, at all. In the beginning you touch on that, but what you wrote was, in my book at least, and no disrespect meant, gibberish. I for one could not make heads or tails of this:

"Who is called by my name has a dual purpose.

You are Called.. The calling.. as in you hear his voice and another you will not follow. The calling..

and 2.. A family name. Many prophets were called by his name. JeremYah, with a "Y" IsiaYah, ZecharYah all have the family name of Yah the same as Yahshua his only begotten son."

I really resent being forced to explain why a gibberish is gibberish, to a person who can operate a keyboard.

So long we are alive we are thankful to 'God'.
What is the ultimate goal of the life?

And atheists believe the same, other beliefs believe the same. Why point fingers making the Christians look bad when in fact atheists and other beliefs are doing the same thing?

Cowboy wrote:

And atheists believe the same, other beliefs believe the same. Why point fingers making the Christians look bad when in fact atheists and other beliefs are doing the same thing?

Cowboy wrote:

And you do the exact same thing my friend. First off, we're in a RELIGION DISCUSSION chat. That is where people come to discuss their religious beliefs, DISCUSS. Not to particularly convince/convert anyone. Or shove beliefs down anyone's throat. Just purely enlightening DISCUSSION.

Jeanniebean wrote:

I think everyone in the world by now has heard about Jesus. There is no need to spread the word anymore. Let people make their own choices. If they want to know more, they can go to church and ask questions.

Some of them do, I'll give you that. I've met some very obnoxious atheists as well as condescending Christians.

Just make sure you are not one of them.

Atheists don't usually go around preaching their non-belief however. They merely respond to in-your-face religious zealots who have been throwing their power and authority in every-bodies faces for two centuries. They are fighting back basically.

So now Christians are whining and complaining about it. Boo hoo.
They can dish it out but they can't take it.

Just stop spreading the propaganda and you will not be bothered and you won't have to complain.

I think everyone in the world by now has heard about Jesus. There is no need to spread the word anymore. Let people make their own choices. If they want to know more, they can go to church and ask questions.

Truly.

Besides, there's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between telling someone about the biblical story who has never heard it before, and constantly arguing with people who are totally familiar with the story and who have concluded that it simply can't be true.

~~~~~

Unfortunately many orthodox Christians do feel that they need to 'defend' against any views and opinions that the biblical stories might potentially be false. That places them on the defense right there.

But the true irony is that their very religion has already taken the stance that all other spiritual and secular views are necessarily false. So they have already placed everyone else in a defensive position whether the other person wants to be defensive or not.

Christianity (and the Abrahamic religions in general) are divisive by their very nature, and it all stems from the "jealous God" concept upon which they all unfortunately founded.